Why not the 30-06?

To my view of deer hunting, the 30-06 is a bit much. It has more energy than is needed to topple a deer where shots are commonly taken at 100 yards or less. But for elk and moose, 30-06 is quite remarkable and efficient. It's recoil level is tolerable for many of us who can't shoot magnums very well. 30-06 with the right bullets is also a good choice for African game.

.308 seems to receive more press these days but the 30-06 has a very good reputation for taking game wherever animals are hunted.

Jack
 
Jack O'Conner said:
To my view of deer hunting, the 30-06 is a bit much. It has more energy than is needed to topple a deer where shots are commonly taken at 100 yards or less. But for elk and moose, 30-06 is quite remarkable and efficient. It's recoil level is tolerable for many of us who can't shoot magnums very well. 30-06 with the right bullets is also a good choice for African game.

.308 seems to receive more press these days but the 30-06 has a very good reputation for taking game wherever animals are hunted.

Jack
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This year I shot a big doe from a tree stand at 30 yards with a 165 gr Hornady 30-06 Interlock. The bullet hit a sapling that was no more than 1/2 inch in diameter. I didn't notice the twig in the Leupold 2.5X scope. The lead core of the bullet was stuck fast in the center of the sapling but the twig did not break!!! You could now easily bend the twig over where the bullet hit...the deer dropped at the shot as if poleaxed, hit in two places by the rest of the bullet. One of the fragments ,VERY luckily, a spine hit. WOULD THIS HAPPEN WITH A LESS POWERFUL CARTRIDGE?

The 30-06 is excessively powerful for Whitetails, BUT there are often other considerations to take into account.

I have seen no difference between the killing power of the 30-06 and 30-30 at ranges out to 75 yards or so given SIMILAR chest cavity hits. BUT the type of terrain we hunt sometimes makes it difficult, especially if no snow, to find a deer even if it is well hit and runs only 50-100 yards when there is little or no blood.

The '06 and similar power, bullet weight cartridges give an extra measure of insurance in these conditions...after all dead is dead, and we owe it to the animal to make sure it is not hit and lost.
 
...the 250-3000 will do fine on medium game...
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What is a "medium game"? Here in Michigan, they sell licences for "small game" and "large game". I have taken a whole lot of deer with my .257 Roberts (100 grain bullets) and a neighbor or mine has used a 250-3000 (A.K.A., 250 Savage), all his life to take deer.
 
dahermit, think "usage". Small = rabbits, coyotes and such. Medium = mostly deer. Large = elk and moose.
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That ("Medium") still is ambiguous and arbitrary in that many hunters throughout the years have used .257 Roberts, 250 Savage, etc. on Elk and Moose. What is or is not adequate for those animals is naught but personal opinion.

Pronouncements such as:
Medium game: 130 gr./150 gr.
Large game: 150 gr./180 gr.

Should be prefixed with: "In my opinion."
 
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dahermit said:
What is a "medium game"? Here in Michigan, they sell licences for "small game" and "large game". I have taken a whole lot of deer with my .257 Roberts (100 grain bullets) and a neighbor or mine has used a 250-3000 (A.K.A., 250 Savage), all his life to take deer.
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Here in PA Big Game is classified as Bear, Elk, Whitetail Deer and Wild Turkey.

The legal minimum for Elk as far as centerfire cartridges is "27 caliber" and 130 grain bullet. There are other regs for shotguns, muzzleloaders and archery.

Obviously, Turkey is not really "big game" but that's what the PGC classifies them as and of course, legal arms and ammunition is different than for Elk :)...No mention is made of "medium game" but most hunters know that "medium game" is a general term describing deer, antelope, N American sheep, etc. Again it's a general term.

In describing his all purpose rifle, Col Cooper opined that the cartridge should be adequate enough for an animal weighing 300 kilos (IIRC) That's about 660 pounds. The .308 was his idea of the ideal all purpose cartridge favoring it over the 30-06 ONLY because of the short action being more suitable for making weight and length limits of his opinion of the all purpose rifle....practically, in a relatively short barreled rifle, the .308 gives up nothing much to the 30-06.
 
From a regulatory standpoint, "Big game" is a legal definition. Hard to see a turkey being as big as an elk. :)

I see the small/medium/large nomenclature as more of hunters' casual ideas in bull sessions about hunting. Based more on comparative physical size than anything else.
 
The 270 only drops 26" at 400 yards if you sighted in at too close of a range to even consider a 400 yard shot. Same thing with the 30-'06.
 
Round numbers, for my pet '06 load, I figured that zeroed at 200 meant about six inches of drop at 300, two feet at 400 and four feet at 500. That proved out when I set up a 500 yard target with the shooting table close by my house. From the appendices in my Sierra manual, that meant a muzzle velocity around 3,150.

Sierra 150-grain SPBT; 26" barrel.
 
dahermit said:
Jack O'Conner didn't use a scope?
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I don't know about Jack O'Conner, the member here at TFL, but Jack O'Connor the famed hunter almost always used a scope on his Model 70's and other rifles. I say "almost always" because I'm sure you can find an image in a magazine where he had iron sights, but I've never seen one.
 
O'Connor goes back a considerable way. Back in the 30's one of his favorite rifles was a 7X57 on a Mauser action with a cocking piece peep sight. He also had a 30-06, I believe a custom '03 with a peep around that time...he always wore glasses and made mention that he made some of his longest shots on game with a 2.5X fixed power scope.

Later he had mostly custom, scope sighted, pre '64 Model 70s, .270 Win was his favorite as almost everyone knows
 
The '06 and similar power, bullet weight cartridges give an extra measure of insurance in these conditions...after all dead is dead, and we owe it to the animal to make sure it is not hit and lost.
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Had you thought that a smaller bullet might have missed that twig?
 
Here in PA Big Game is classified as Bear, Elk, Whitetail Deer and Wild Turkey.
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Well back East is ? They have Elk there? Wild Turkey? I thought that was a strong liquor.

I went ice fishing with my uncle back in Wisconsin on one visit. He got this tiny little fish out of a pond and was quite excited.

I did not bust the bubble, but really, those were bait at best where I live. I am sure it was a nice sunfish or some such but The Great White Whale it was not.
 
RC20 said:
Had you thought that a smaller bullet might have missed that twig?
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Maybe, but might also have deflected and wounded the deer. That has always been the question when hunting heavy bush. Some say a heavy blunt nosed bullet is best, others say no bullet can be expected to reliably get through brush. I agree with the latter opinion. I was incredibly lucky on that one.
 
The '06 and similar power, bullet weight cartridges give an extra measure of insurance in these conditions...after all dead is dead, and we owe it to the animal to make sure it is not hit and lost.
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Another way of that is to get closer to make sure it is not hit and lost, and use a .243, .250, 7MM-08, etc. behind the shoulder. People who obsess about "shoots flatter" at long distance, don't seem to be that concerned about making sure it is not hit and lost.
 
They have elk there? Wild turkey?
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Yes, PA has elk. There is even a county called Elk County. It's a thing to go sight them while they're in rut. We also have wild turkey(the bird) and it requires a tag. The required tag is why it is considered large game here. There is fall turkey season(male or female birds can be taken) and spring gobbler season(only males can be taken)
Some say a heavy blunt nose bullet is best
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IraqVeteran8888 has a good demonstration video on brush guns and the affects of brush in the line of fire.
 
RC20 said:
Well back East is ? They have Elk there? Wild Turkey? I thought that was a strong liquor.

I went ice fishing with my uncle back in Wisconsin on one visit. He got this tiny little fish out of a pond and was quite excited.

I did not bust the bubble, but really, those were bait at best where I live. I am sure it was a nice sunfish or some such but The Great White Whale it was not.
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Lynx, Gray Wolf, Moose, Wolverine, Mountain Lion and Bison were all native to PA when few knew Alaska existed. One of the worst battles of the War between the States was fought in PA when Alaska was still Russian territory.

In 1900, the forerunner of the PGC estimated there were only about 500 White Tail left in the state. Now, there are so many deer that they are in almost every back yard in the suburbs. PA leads the country in deer/vehicle crashes. This despite longer seasons and almost unlimited antlerless tags in some areas.

The PGC now claims there are too many bear in PA. Hunters killed bears in 54 of the state's 67 counties. A woman and her dog were mauled in Dec. when they came between a sow and her cubs. They tried to trap the bruin but caught two non-guilty bears near her home instead.

When I first started hunting seeing Turkey wasn't that common, even though the bird is native to PA. On a cold day last Feb I saw 50 Turkey and 80 Canada Geese in a cut corn field while running my dog. Too many geese are also causing problems around lakes.

Some people don't know that PA is still about 70% woods. The 30-06 is a wise choice :)
 
Somewhen in the 1960s, it was reported that the whitetail deer kill by hunters was around 40,000. The same kill number also came from vehicles.
 
Lynx, Gray Wolf, Moose, Wolverine, Mountain Lion and Bison were all native to PA when few knew Alaska existed. One of the worst battles of the War between the States was fought in PA when Alaska was still Russian territory.
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Who knew? Bison though, come on man, what 1452? Lost moose from Canada? (grin)

Yep, Gettysburg. Maybe worst for casualties, best for the nation. Meade of all people. Not that he didn't have a lot of help with the right people in the right place.

Reynolds? Forget the guy at little Round Top (chambers?) , just goes to show, you find good commanders in some different places.

Alaska?: Goes down with the Louisianan purchase as the best all time real estate deal of all time. Got a lot better mountains of course.
 
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