Why not the 30-06?
- Thread starter Roamin_Wade
- Start date
I agonized over which hunting rifle to get for almost two years. I wanted something I could use in Alaska if the opportunity ever came up. I did not want a magnum and I wasn't sure which action to choose. I initially chose a Remington 7600 pump gun, but it just felt wonky to me and I sold it shortly thereafter.
But I could have pretty much bought any rifle out there in any caliber I wanted. I was even on the .35 train for awhile, thinking a .35 caliber non-magnum would fit the bill nicely on any game in Alaska but still be viable on the white tails or hogs.
But of all the makes and models of rifles and mind numbing choices of calibers I chose a Browning X-Bolt in .30-06 with iron sights. My reasons for choosing it are that bolt actions are the most robust and simplest of all actions aside from single shots. The .30-06 is very capable on any game in North America, it's affordable and it's available almost everywhere.
But I could have pretty much bought any rifle out there in any caliber I wanted. I was even on the .35 train for awhile, thinking a .35 caliber non-magnum would fit the bill nicely on any game in Alaska but still be viable on the white tails or hogs.
But of all the makes and models of rifles and mind numbing choices of calibers I chose a Browning X-Bolt in .30-06 with iron sights. My reasons for choosing it are that bolt actions are the most robust and simplest of all actions aside from single shots. The .30-06 is very capable on any game in North America, it's affordable and it's available almost everywhere.
Attachments
All true and its really one of the best if not the best all around Alaska game cartridge.
Huge numbers of Brown Bear were taken back in the day with 30-06 when we weren't Safari hunters and the magnum is the only way to go. Shoot, Lewis and Clark were killing Grizzlies with black powder and air guns (granted it was some hair rising tales)
From 1903 on through the 70s, the 30-06 was the go to cartridge in AK and still is. A lot of bears were shot in defense of property and to make the area safe for the kids (not trophy hunting)
Once trophy hunting got to be the big thing, then you had to have the big magnums (said shooters backed up by a guide with a big gun who shot right after the client) .
My dad hunted Sitka Black til deer with his 06 (its what he had, the other gun was a 270 that was reserved for a sheep hunt that never happened)
He shot moose with it. Happily for all he never had to shoot a bear with it but that is what he would have done as well if needed.
Undergunned was not even a word known back in those days. The poacher would shoot moose with a 22 (in the lungs and let them bleed out quietly)
If it had been wide spread, the 7.5 Swiss would have given it a run for its money, but no advantage really other than a more efficient cartridge and we are talking minutia.
As noted, the 30-30 is still a ubiquitous caliber in some areas because it works for them (West Virginia comes to mind and yes I was there and yes that is what they were headed out with)
Now a 223 with the right bullets is a fine deer gun, not what I would want to shoot a Caribou or a Moose with.
But the 30-06 does them all, and if that is all you had and you needed to kill Cape Buff and Elephants, it would do that as well (and one guy did with picked shots and a smaller caliber.
Huge numbers of Brown Bear were taken back in the day with 30-06 when we weren't Safari hunters and the magnum is the only way to go. Shoot, Lewis and Clark were killing Grizzlies with black powder and air guns (granted it was some hair rising tales)
From 1903 on through the 70s, the 30-06 was the go to cartridge in AK and still is. A lot of bears were shot in defense of property and to make the area safe for the kids (not trophy hunting)
Once trophy hunting got to be the big thing, then you had to have the big magnums (said shooters backed up by a guide with a big gun who shot right after the client) .
My dad hunted Sitka Black til deer with his 06 (its what he had, the other gun was a 270 that was reserved for a sheep hunt that never happened)
He shot moose with it. Happily for all he never had to shoot a bear with it but that is what he would have done as well if needed.
Undergunned was not even a word known back in those days. The poacher would shoot moose with a 22 (in the lungs and let them bleed out quietly)
If it had been wide spread, the 7.5 Swiss would have given it a run for its money, but no advantage really other than a more efficient cartridge and we are talking minutia.
As noted, the 30-30 is still a ubiquitous caliber in some areas because it works for them (West Virginia comes to mind and yes I was there and yes that is what they were headed out with)
Now a 223 with the right bullets is a fine deer gun, not what I would want to shoot a Caribou or a Moose with.
But the 30-06 does them all, and if that is all you had and you needed to kill Cape Buff and Elephants, it would do that as well (and one guy did with picked shots and a smaller caliber.
"Comparing the .308 (which is a fine round) to a 30-06 is probably not a good choice. The only thing they have in common is the caliber/bullet diameter. The muzzle velocity and energy of the 06 is superior and therefore broadens the range of game animals that can be ethically taken."
I have to question that. A few years back I'd gotten into some Winchester .308 and 30-06 ammo cheap due to a store's liquidation sale. Both cartridges came with the 180 gr. Power Point bullet. My plan was to shoot them up to get the brass. Be fine for practice from hunting positions. I decided to run a box of the .308's and 30-06's over the chronograph just to see how much difference there would be in speed. After, isn't the 30-06 supposed to be a higher velocity round than the .308? Long story short, the .308's average was about 2610 FPS. The 30-06 2620FPS
Those were averages from 20 rounds of each cartridge. Both rifles had 22" barrels. I also had a custom Mauser with 24" barrel and a Ruger #1 B with 26" barrel and the Ruger was the only one than came close to what Winchester claims their 180 gr. ammo is supposed to deliver.
On another note, anyone who says the .308 isn't any good with a 220 gr. bullet hasn't tried it. Trying to find pressure tested data for a bullet that heavy wasn't easy but I found an earlier copy of those one book/one caliber books and they had data. It showed the highest velocity used W760 for nearly 2300 FPS. From my Winchester M70 .308 the top load did 2310 FPS with a .375" group at 100 yards. Bullet holes showed no sign of tipping. If the velocity of thar 220 gr. bullet is like what I found in the 180 gr. bullet test, then factory 220 gr. 06 just might not be delivering the 2400 FPS claimed.
Before anyone gets all bent out of shape, I know darn well the 30-06 can be loaded significantly hotter. As a matter of fact, one of my elk loads does 2800 FPS with the 180 gr. Hornady Interlock using H4350 from the 22" barrel of a Remington M700 Classic.
I've hunted since I was 11 years old, started with a 30-30 in 1949. Used it until age 16 when I got my first 30-06. I didn't switch to the .308 until 1973. My heavy old 30-06 was too much for the very heavy chain smoker that I was. Found a deal on a new Remington 660 in .308 and used it for years. Later on I got a Ruger RSI and liked it even better. I don't hunt deer anymore and do an occasional cow elk cull hunt on a ranch. My main rifle for that is usually my .35 Whelen but you can be sure the 30-06 goes along as back up rifle.
Col. Whelen got it right when he said, "Th 30-06 is never a mistake."
Paul B.
I have to question that. A few years back I'd gotten into some Winchester .308 and 30-06 ammo cheap due to a store's liquidation sale. Both cartridges came with the 180 gr. Power Point bullet. My plan was to shoot them up to get the brass. Be fine for practice from hunting positions. I decided to run a box of the .308's and 30-06's over the chronograph just to see how much difference there would be in speed. After, isn't the 30-06 supposed to be a higher velocity round than the .308? Long story short, the .308's average was about 2610 FPS. The 30-06 2620FPS
Those were averages from 20 rounds of each cartridge. Both rifles had 22" barrels. I also had a custom Mauser with 24" barrel and a Ruger #1 B with 26" barrel and the Ruger was the only one than came close to what Winchester claims their 180 gr. ammo is supposed to deliver.On another note, anyone who says the .308 isn't any good with a 220 gr. bullet hasn't tried it. Trying to find pressure tested data for a bullet that heavy wasn't easy but I found an earlier copy of those one book/one caliber books and they had data. It showed the highest velocity used W760 for nearly 2300 FPS. From my Winchester M70 .308 the top load did 2310 FPS with a .375" group at 100 yards. Bullet holes showed no sign of tipping. If the velocity of thar 220 gr. bullet is like what I found in the 180 gr. bullet test, then factory 220 gr. 06 just might not be delivering the 2400 FPS claimed.
Before anyone gets all bent out of shape, I know darn well the 30-06 can be loaded significantly hotter. As a matter of fact, one of my elk loads does 2800 FPS with the 180 gr. Hornady Interlock using H4350 from the 22" barrel of a Remington M700 Classic.
I've hunted since I was 11 years old, started with a 30-30 in 1949. Used it until age 16 when I got my first 30-06. I didn't switch to the .308 until 1973. My heavy old 30-06 was too much for the very heavy chain smoker that I was. Found a deal on a new Remington 660 in .308 and used it for years. Later on I got a Ruger RSI and liked it even better. I don't hunt deer anymore and do an occasional cow elk cull hunt on a ranch. My main rifle for that is usually my .35 Whelen but you can be sure the 30-06 goes along as back up rifle.
Col. Whelen got it right when he said, "Th 30-06 is never a mistake."
Paul B.
Don Fischer
New member
I've hunted with the 30-06 very little, actually just started with it a few years ago. I've hunted with the 308 a whole lot but never use bullet's heavier than 165 gr. In my 30-06 never below 180gr. Were I to go to Alaska and hunt big bears, I would not buy another rifle, I'd take my 30-06 loaded with 200gr bullet's! For me the advantage in any cartridge is how heavy a bullet they can handle without killing on both ends! I've tried 200gr bullet's in a 308 years ago in Alaska. Didn't have a 30-06 then. Have to say that if I had to use my 308 to hunt big bears, it would not phase me. Just up the bullet weight! Not a 30-06 but then still more than adequate with a good bullet for the game hunted. This of course is to take nothing away from the 30-06! One thing that really needs to be understood about hunting dangerous game is it is not a long range sport. To many people talk about going out and shooting deer and elk ect at long long range. Keep something in mind, you take a shot at the bad bear at those ranges and wound it, some one has to go in after it and it will fight back! I would shoot at a deer or maybe even elk at 300 yds, would not consider that with dangerous animal. For me I'm talking a hundred yds or less. Why? I shoot much better at 100yds than I do at any range much farther! I think prudence being the better part of valor, dangerous game deserves your best shot! 30-06 or even 308 with the right bullet, 200gr or up, is up to the task I'm sure.
Still what I recommend for general hunting. I hunted with one for years that I just passed down to my oldest son.
The only thing that moved me from .30-06 was my dream rifle, a Weatherby in .338-06, was offered to me by the factory rep at a price well below cost. A .243 and a .30-06 makes a great set for doing most anything in the lower 48.
The only thing that moved me from .30-06 was my dream rifle, a Weatherby in .338-06, was offered to me by the factory rep at a price well below cost. A .243 and a .30-06 makes a great set for doing most anything in the lower 48.
The reason why .308 (7.62mm NATO M80) and 30.06 M2 Ball are for all practical purposes the same at ranges up to 1000 meters is by design.
7.62mm NATO gave the US Army the same performance as .30 cal M2 in a smaller, lighter, package.
But only past 1000 meters. Something that is not relevant to most people.
https://outdoorever.com/308-vs-30-06/
Bamashooter
New member
I own 3 30-06's and it was the very first caliber I ever reloaded. Love my 06's.
30-06...a fighting cartridge for half a century. I would bet that more of OUR enemy combatants that were killed by rifle fire were done in by the '06...Col Cooper opined that "the 30-06 will do anything that needs doing"..."supremely suitable for fighting"...."if you can't do it with a 30-06, you probably can't do it"
Somebody is always trying to sell you something, whether you need it or not...the '06 ain't spot news, maybe not cool or sexy, but IMO the best all around cartridge ever!
Somebody is always trying to sell you something, whether you need it or not...the '06 ain't spot news, maybe not cool or sexy, but IMO the best all around cartridge ever!
As an opinion its an opinion and it is for the individual to judge. For me there are simply too many cartridges that are so drastically similar and will do what 99% of their users ever intend to do that there is no functional difference.
Start somewhere above the .243 and end somewhere below the .338 magnums. The various cartridges that fall in there are, for the most part, so close to each other to be indistinguishable except for some niche use.
To the OP's question of "Why not the 30-06" all one can do is shrug. But you can sub in any number of cartridges there and get the same response.
While I would agree to a point but I think you stretched out a bit too far. A 30-06 is significantly more powerful and effective against larger game than a 243. Let alone some of the magnums that slot in between the 30-06 and 338 mags.
I probably did. I'm not sure exactly where the somewhere above and below is myself. There are a lot of "new" cartridges out there that effectively just do what the 30-06 already did. I'm guessing others can say that the __________ did it before the 06 too.As much as I enjoy the .30-06 Springfield (especially out of a 24" Bbl'ed 10.5 lb. M1 Garand)?
I think that the .270 Win is a "better" optimized cartridge for a sporter rifle for medium to large game.
It shoots a 150 gr. bullet at nearly the same velocity as the '06, but that bullet has the BC and SD of the 180 gr. variety, so you get the performance of the heavier bullet with generally accepted tolerable recoil (in the light weight sporter rifle).
Win/win.
Red
I think that the .270 Win is a "better" optimized cartridge for a sporter rifle for medium to large game.
It shoots a 150 gr. bullet at nearly the same velocity as the '06, but that bullet has the BC and SD of the 180 gr. variety, so you get the performance of the heavier bullet with generally accepted tolerable recoil (in the light weight sporter rifle).
Win/win.
Red
Jack O'Conner
New member
30-06 is still getting the job done wherever game is hunted. It does not get much press these days in the magazines because its old news.
Jack
Jack
Yep
I disagree. There are 3 distinct eras of firearms.
Black Powder from smooth to rifled. Slow, they did the job, but you needed to be close for penetration (larger game) people. Better than bows and arrows. maybe.
Black Powder in modern cartridges from with rifling. Still a limited range sans the rainbow trajectory subject to everything. 30-40 Kraig and the like.
Modem: Smokeless powders, Spitzer bullets and those all started the more advanced with the 6.5s, 7mm and 30-06 (and some odds and sods from the French etc)
I disagree. There are 3 distinct eras of firearms.
Black Powder from smooth to rifled. Slow, they did the job, but you needed to be close for penetration (larger game) people. Better than bows and arrows. maybe.
Black Powder in modern cartridges from with rifling. Still a limited range sans the rainbow trajectory subject to everything. 30-40 Kraig and the like.
Modem: Smokeless powders, Spitzer bullets and those all started the more advanced with the 6.5s, 7mm and 30-06 (and some odds and sods from the French etc)
I disagree. Looking at my old Hornady fifth edition handbook, I find six loads (150-155 grain bullets) that reach 3,000 fps. with a 24 in. barrel whereas, the same handbook shows only two loads that hit 2900 fps. with 150 grain bullets. What is notable, is that the loads for the 06 are not likely over the SAAMI limit for the 06 of 60,000 psi. whereas the .270 SAAMI limit is 65,000.
Therefore, if a person hand loaded the 30-06 while watching for pressure signs instead of trying to stay at the SAAMI limit as per the handbook, one could conceivably get the velocity (safely...both pretty much the same cartridge case, in modern rifles), even higher than the 3,000 shown in the handbook.
Thermonuclear handloads are possible w/ both cartridges.
But who in their right mind would take them to the unpredictable hunting fields?
Diameter, and thereby piston area, favors the 30 cal., whereas BC, SD, and max pressure favor the .270.
But you are never going to drive a 180 gr. 30-06 to the velocity levels of the 150 gr. .270 Win, while retaining the same lower recoil levels.
Because that is what the .270 Win./150 gr. does.
Red
No one said anything about comparing a 180 grain 30-06 bullet to 130 grain .270 velocity. That seems to be a strawman argument.
Also, no one suggested shooting either cartridge at unsafe velocities ("thermonuclear")...hand loaders have been increasing powder amounts until pressure signs appear as a standard procedure for years.
The pressure "limit" imposed by SAAMI of 60,000 psi on the 30-06 was for the benefit of the old rifles still in existence and being used. A modern 30-06 would not be in any more danger at 65,000 psi than any .270. In short, the velocities posted in loading manuals for .270s are already near their pressure limit whereas the velocities listed for 30-06 are not.
The 130 gr. .270 was never mentioned.
The problem is, the 150 gr. argument is academic when comparing the two cartridges in the field.
The increased area of the .30 cal does allow a bullet of the same weight to be driven faster w/ the same pressure. That is simple Physics.
But it is not the same bullet.
For the .270 Win./.30-06 Spg. respectively, the bullets of similar BC, SD, and application are:
Medium game: 130 gr./150 gr.
Large game: 150 gr./180 gr.
These are the loads to compare.
Red
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