Why not the 30-06?

RC20 said:
Wow, a 270 is certainly tolerably, non existent? Not by my experience. Recoil wise a 30-06 and 270 are close enough (with the edge to 270) to be a toss up.

270 has some abilities in the high BC and longer range on trajectory though that is inches in several feet out at 600 yards.

But this is Why Not the 30-06, not long range shooting (6.5 rules there) or recoil.

Like the 7.5 Swiss, 06/ 8mm (granted that nis a bit out of the range) but the 30 calibers are a sweet spot for shooting (non magnum)

6.5 is also a sweet spot. We would do fine with 6.5, 06 class and 375 class. But then we would not anything to disagree about either!
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First off, the word used was "neglectable", not "non existent".

And the issue was heavy for caliber, high SD bullets.


The 30-06 has the 180 gr., (SD 0.271) and will push it out of a 22" sporter at ~ 2650 fps.

The .270 Win has the 150 gr., (SD 0.279) for a 22" muzzle velocity of ~ 2780 fps.

If the rifle is wood stocked and scoped, it will weigh ~ 8.5 lbs.

Free recoil for these loads are:
30-06 = 20.2 Lb-ft.
270 Win = 17.0 Lb-ft.

That is almost a 19% increase, that starts to migrate up into the "intolerable" range.

If the rifle is lighter, it will be even more.


No gettin' around the physics.




Red
 
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The .270 Win/.280 Rem shine because they take that tolerable/neglectable recoil and wrap it around a high BC/high SD 150 gr. bullet, so you don't need to go heavier.
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Neglectable is not a word. I assumed negligible. If not then nonsense.

30-06 is tolerable as well. I try not to neglect mine though.
 
The 30-06 has the 180 gr., (SD 0.271) and will push it out of a 22" sporter at ~ 2650 fps.
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That is almost a 19% increase, that starts to migrate up into the "intolerable" range.
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Both of my 30-06's have 26 inch barrels and I can push a 180 grain bullet over 2900 FPS. I don't know how many foot pounds of recoil that is but it is certainly not intolerable.
 
RC20 said:
Neglectable is not a word. I assumed negligible. If not then nonsense.

30-06 is tolerable as well. I try not to neglect mine though.
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Is there a difference between negligible and neglectable?

Neglectable - to be ignored.
Negligible - to not be counted.

The 30-06 is tolerable - in an 11 lb. M1 Garand.

In an 8.5 lb (or lighter) sporting rifle, the 30-06 can be a problem.

The .270 Win., not so much.

The 150 gr. .270 Win. will do, for the most part, what the 180 gr. 30-06 will do - and w/ higher velocity/flatter shooting/less recoil.

No gettin' around the physics.




Red
 
You can also handload a 270 with 24" barrel and 150 grain bullets to 3,000 fps with at least a few optimal powders...but then it kicks just as much as a 30-'06.
 
Pathfinder45 said:
You can also handload a 270 with 24" barrel and 150 grain bullets to 3,000 fps with at least a few optimal powders...but then it kicks just as much as a 30-'06.
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What you get at 300 yards for your roughly 20% less recoil:

Range - VEL - NRG - Drop (200 yd zero)

.270 Win/150 gr:
300 - 2239 - 1670.0 -7.8

30-06/180 gr:
300 - 2080 - 1729.0 -9.0

And, in case you are interested?
6.5 CM/140 gr:

300 - 2033 - 1284.0 -9.2




Red
 
Red Devil, I own few hunting rifles and one is 270 couple 30-06 and some others. I've really never compared and my only question is, 30-06 will shoot 150gr bullet and why not use that.
 
What you get at 300 yards for your roughly 20% less recoil:

Range - VEL - NRG - Drop (200 yd zero)

.270 Win/150 gr:
300 - 2239 - 1670.0 -7.8

30-06/180 gr:
300 - 2080 - 1729.0 -9.0
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How about this:

.270 Win/150 gr Nosler LRAB BC .496
300 - 2356 - 1845 -11.9

30-06/150 gr Nosler Accubond BC .435
300 - 2360 - 1854 -11.3

Recoil Rifle: 7.5 lbs 270Win = 23.31

Recoil Rifle: 7.5 lbs 30-06 = 23.16

Recoil calculator: http://www.shooterscalculator.com/recoil-calculator.php


Comparing apples to apples instead of apples to watermelons, the 30-06 comes out ahead every time.

Cutting all the Bullshi*, both calibers have a tremendous following and for very good reasons. They get the job done and done well.
 
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Dufus said:
How about this:

.270 Win/150 gr Nosler LRAB BC .496
300 - 2356 - 1845 -11.9

30-06/150 gr Nosler Accubond BC .435
300 - 2360 - 1854 -11.3

Recoil Rifle: 7.5 lbs 270Win = 23.31

Recoil Rifle: 7.5 lbs 30-06 = 23.16

Recoil calculator: http://www.shooterscalculator.com/recoil-calculator.php


Comparing apples to apples instead of apples to watermelons, the 30-06 comes out ahead every time.

Cutting all the Bullshi*, both calibers have a tremendous following and for very good reasons. They get the job done and done well.
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Not Apples-to-apples, unless recoil (in a very light rifle) is all you are attempting to determine.

The .270/150 gr. is a heavy-for-caliber round, w/ a high SD for bigger game.

The 30-06/180 gr. is also a heavy-for-caliber round, w/ similar SD for bigger game.


If you want to compare light-for-caliber rounds with similar SD - compare the .270/130 gr. and the 30-06/150 gr. - as those are the typical "deer" rounds used.




Red
 
The 30-06/180 gr. is also a heavy-for-caliber round, w/ similar SD for bigger game
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I don't get that the 180 is heavy for caliber, I would expect its a norm (at or minu 5 grins)

It came out as a RN 220, 174 gr was common in it at one time. Rumors to the 150 being more range friendly in WWII.

Extensive stocks of the post WWI developed 174 gr boatail were available, the 163–168 grain AP acualy was more accurate than 150 gr and used in combat in WWII (vs us Range shooting) - I have read reports that was all that was used overseas (165 and 174 as there were massive stockpiles)

While the 06 will shoot anything down to 125 gr amazing accurately (I have done limited testing and get under 3/4 inch x 5 shot groups) and up to 220 gr, 175 - 180 is its sweet spot and the range combo was the best.

The standard 1-10 twist is good to 220 gr.
 
I don't think anyone uses sectional densities for comparisons much any more, but I guess it's all you have to support your comparisons and have the biased results turn out the way you want it.

If you were opened minded from the start you would have compared similar weight bullets and similar weight rifles. Otherwise as I said before, your argument has nothing to back it up.

180 gr is not heavy for caliber. I have some 240 gr Woodleighs that are heavy for caliber.
 
Dufus said:
I don't think anyone uses sectional densities for comparisons much any more...
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Huh...?!?

Missed your link.
(like this one)

The Sectional Density of Rifle Bullets

"...SD is important because it has a significant effect on penetration. Other things being equal (like impact velocity, bullet design and expansion, etc.) the higher the SD number, the better the bullet's penetration..."

"...Probably the best way to compare different calibers is by SD, not bullet weight. Comparing calibers by bullet weight can be deceiving. For example, the .270 Winchester and .30-06, which are based on the same case, can both shoot 150 grain bullets. However, the 150 grain .30-06 bullet (SD .226) is best used for Class 2 (deer size) game, while the 150 grain .270 bullet (SD .279) is most appropriate for Class 3 (elk size) game. The 150 grain .270 bullet should actually be compared to the 180 grain .30-06 bullet (SD .271), as both of these bullets are appropriate for Class 3 game in their respective calibers and boast similar SD's. This is important to remember when comparing rifle bullets..."

:D




Red
 
There are cartridges that just seem to have hit the sweet spot for their bore dia. Each caliber seems to have a bullet weight that it was made for. They will shoot others but shine
with one. The 30/06 is one of those cartridges with 150g bullet. Other than 30/30 it's most
popular 30cal. 308 coming in close second. A 270 with 150 gr puts it back to the point that if you were buying for 150gr bullets it would have no practical advantage over 30/06. The
7mm mag & 300 mag have a andvintage but are more powder and recoil. You may need this for certain persuits but in general the 3006 will get it done. When I said it was a bit light for big bears, I didn't mean it wouldn't do. I wouldn't doubt there have been as many bears killed with 3006 as all the magnums. Magnums didn't come into style until late 50s.
The 3006 was probably the most common rifle that was carried in bear country back then.
When somebody said hi powered rifle you though 3006.
 
150 would be the normal light end of 06

175 to 180 the middle.

220 usually the high.

Military went to 1-11 twist for the 150 gr, 1-10 works up to 220 grains perfectly fine (ie the original rifling and size projectile)

Military kept going back to 150 but that does not mean its the spot for 06, its right for 7.62 ala 308 at 150.
 
dahermit said:
What can be said about the 30-06 that cannot also be said about the 7MM Rem. Magnum or the .300 Winchester Magnum?
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Cheaper cartridge whether factory or reloading.
More readily available almost everywhere ammo is sold.
Requires less barrel length to achieve it's potential.
For PRACTICAL purposes, given reasonable ranges, say out to 250-300 meters, will get the job done just as well.

In rifles of similar dimension and weight, less blast and recoil. Especially compared to the 300!

BTW, all things being equal there is little PRACTICAL difference between .308 and '06 AND this includes perceived recoil...the deal breaker would be the .308 can be had in short actions.
 
Probably at 250 to 300 yards to (grin)

Its number 3 on sales of reloading dies sold list last two years of data. Number one lifetime would be a good guess.

The highly respected 270 was in 6th or 7th place.

223 was number 1 and 6.5 CM was 2.
 
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Here is list I posted

Handloader Special Edition, Top 10 Reloded rifle Cartridge, it''s base on top dies sales from Hornady,Lee,RCBS,Lyman and Redding and it's year behind.

The 6.5 CM was 3rd, 300 Blackout was 8th. 1st 223,2nd 308 4th 30-06 ,5th 243 and 6th 300mag,7th 270,9th 7mag,10th 22-250.
 
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