Why do you have a 10mm?

[Lohman446]

Added: If you need to pick your handguns from what ammo the Big Box sells you are up the creek without a paddle. Period

To me I think this is where the 10MM gains an edge over other less popular "big boy" autos. You can buy full house 10MM fairly readily. Granted not by walking into Cabelas (though I have seen some Buffalo Bore stuff there) but through companies like Underwood. You can also buy "plinking" ammo from S+B and if you watch for sales its not bad at all - I think my last 1000 round order was under $15 a box.

Can I do everything a reloader can? Nope, and probably not by a long shot. BUT I am not left in the cold also if I don't reload.

 

[agtman]

No matter what defense ammo you buy for 10mm, you're going to end up spending $1 a round. While the reduced 10mm load isn't what 10mm can be, it's still better than what .40 is, yet more controllable due to the larger size of the 10mm guns.

Huh?

As Gramps used to say: 'Park stupid; drive smart.'

At least wth the Glock 10mms, you don't need to buy the pricer '40-level' junk ammo to be able to shoot a 'reduced' power-level of 10mm.

Just pick up a drop-in LWD .40 barrel for your 10mm Glock and swap it in for the factory 10mm tube. Then go shoot all the real deal 40S&W ammo you want. Wrist-friendly and cheaper.

There are several alt-caliber barrel makers to choose from, as well as spare barrels for the Glock 10mms in .357 Sig and 9x25 Dillon.

Easy-peasy.

 

[J.G. Terry]

Buy a handgun, any handgun. for what cartridges you can buy in the Big Box is rinky-dink. If I wanted a G22 I'd go buy a traded in new gun from a police department for $300.00. There's some real bargains in SIG's out there.

This 10mm recoil is described as a horror knocking shooter to the ground with broken hand and gash in the head from horrendous recoil. Don't think it works that way.

Mail ordering low end ammo is the essence of handgun shooting. I'd buy Black Cat firecrackers and save money. I'd like some info on shortfalls of handloaded 10mm cartridges. I don't think my handloaded ammo runs nearly $1.00 per round! Handloading information from experience not from gun rags is appreciated. Is it true some of the specialty ammo is not recommended for Delta Elites by the makers?

 

[Lohman446]

This 10mm recoil is described as a horror knocking shooter to the ground with broken and gash in the head from horrendous recoil. Don't think it works that way

Funny thing. When I first got my G29 I couldn't figure out what all the complaints about recoil were. Granted I am not overly recoil sensitive but I was like When I first shot the Delta, a MUCH heavier gun, I figured out why some people are concerned. Its not a disaster, my then 12 year oldish nephews shot it and enjoyed it, but you at least realize why some people had a concern.

 

[Nanuk]

I never knew of the 10mm / .40 S&W evolvement until I actually bought my Kimber 10mm and started reading up. Very interesting 10mm history that all started from the 1986 Miami FBI shootout :

Yup, the FBI attempted to fix poor tactics and moderate skill level with new toys.

 

[J.G. Terry]

Data from the real world.

Data: Here is some data from loading 10mm with 165 gr. Montana Gold and Speer Gold Dot bullets. This is the first load I came to. This load was 10grs. of Power Pistol with 165gr. MG bullets. Average was 1363fps with SD of 19.10. The was from the G20. Maypop? Average for the G29 was 1228 with DS of 23.50. The charge was 9.5 Power Pistol. Another weak load? There are the first loads in the data, That is, not cherry picked. I got page after page of these notes. I do apologize as the 180gr. and lead bullet loads are in the archives. These are safe loads and did not harm brass nor damage pistol. The handgun did not need new springs etc.

Now I can load these cartridge by the bushel basket full on my Dillon 550. Would these loads be satisfactory for personal defense? Wonder how many rounds I could load while others wait for the Brown Truck?

Added: In the day I did chronograph some Federal 180 gr cartridges. Average velocity of those rounds was 1056.4 with SD of 13.58. There are probably more powerful rounds from Federal. For some Hornady 180gr. cartridges it was a average of 1126.3 fps with SD of 9.89. This data was from the G20.

 

[Forte S+W]

Recoil hasn't stopped stuff like lightweight alloy .357 revolver or .44 Mag or larger caliber revolvers from selling. When people want substantially more power, they accept the heavier recoil.

The deal with .40 is it's not going to allow you to shoot accurately as fast as 9mm will because, yeah, there's more recoil, but I feel that the complaints about .40's recoil have more to do with making an excuse not to buy .40 due to the ammo price.

Your reasoning on boutique ammo makers is sound, I don't like those who tout .357's power because of one Buffalo Bore load, so the same goes for 10mm. If you don't reload then you're gonna pay a lot for that hot 10mm ammo. The difference between that .357 and 10mm ammo is that you can load that 10mm ammo to those velocities with standard powders, but the .357 you can't because Buffalo Bore is using a special powder we don't have access to.

No matter what defense ammo you buy for 10mm, you're going to end up spending $1 a round. While the reduced 10mm load isn't what 10mm can be, it's still better than what .40 is, yet more controllable due to the larger size of the 10mm guns.

You make enough valid points to not get 10mm, so I can't say you're wrong, but I think all things 10mm are going to improve greatly over the next couple of years.

Very true, but I guarantee you that the weenies I'm referring to don't own a .357 Airweight, much less a 329.

You're probably dead on about that, as the same folks who knock .40 S&W nearly always bring cost into the equation. A wise man once said; "If I should ever die in a gunfight, I want my family to be comforted by the fact that I saved up to 10¢ a round on ammo." or something to that effect.

That was by far the biggest turn off for me, looking up ammo, reading the stats, watching people chronograph 10mm ammo on YouTube, and learning that pretty much all of the ammo currently offered by mainstream ammo manufactures are the FBI Loads, which aren't much more powerful than .40 S&W, yet cost substantially more. Or I could pay even more for boutique ammo, get real 10mm performance, but won't be able to shoot it often due to the expense.

If I'm going to buy a 10mm pistol, then I'd like to shoot full-power 10mm ammo, not what might as well be considered ".40 S&W +P" at best, boasting a whopping 50fps increase over .40 S&W. The fact that it's more controllable doesn't mean much to me, as I could always just buy a heavy all-steel .40cal pistol like a SIG or otherwise something like the H&K USP40 which has a reputation for being a soft shooter.

I hope that you're right, as wouldn't hesitate to buy a 10mm pistol in the event that full-power ammo was more readily available from mainstream manufacturers and there were more pistol choices available.

 

[Lohman446]

Now I can load these cartridge by the bushel basket full on my Dillon 550. Would these loads be satisfactory for personal defense? Wonder how many rounds I could load while others wait for the Brown Truck?

No idea but if we are trying to raise snarkiness to Huggie filling levels (your words not mine) I'm guessing by the time you fire (including firing, chasing brass, cleaning and reloading) the equivalent of the 3000 rounds of 10MM I have sitting at my house of S+B plus the several hundred of Underwood the big brown truck* could have come and gone several times.

*Most ammunition I have delivered, IIRC, comes Fedex if we want to be technical

 

[J.G. Terry]

Lohman46: Did you look at my data? I do not have to diddle with Black Cat rounds. I do acknowledge some shooters have different resources and interest. My loads were not maxed out.

From my set up I can have several reloading activities going on at the same time. In other words, I do not sit there and watch the case trimmer or a case tumbler. I employ a brass catcher. I'd like to have your brass if you leave it on the ground,

To your ammo stash it's, to me. a matter of a huge "so what." Reloading, to make it understandable, is another shooting hobby. What's reasonably possible is the quest. How about getting some of that Underwood ammo chronographed by a real life person or yourself. Otherwise, ammo data is an act of faith. This act of faith is particularly evident in 10mm. No snark intended.

Take care and be safe. Season's Greetings to everybody here.

 

[Lohman446]

Did you look at my data? I do not have to diddle with Black Cat rounds

I have to beg understanding on load data. I don't reload. Well technically I have the equipment because when I owned a 375 H+H I reloaded for it so I could afford to shoot it but those days are past. So load data is not informative to me because I don't know what the numbers work out to doing.

I don't enjoy reloading so I cannot write it off as another hobby. I have things I would much rather be doing. I assume ammunition loaded by those like Underwood is reasonable and will do what it is designed to do. I am not skilled enough that a little variance matters.

 

[J.G. Terry]

Lohman446: I had bought a CZ Safari in 375 H&H. The store owner allowed there was a box of cartridges that went with the gun. Near had a heard attack checking the best price on that ammo. I still load for that round. Got two 375 H&H's. Two 10mm's are the most I have had at one time. If I want to shoot it's a matter of reloading. I do black powder cartridge. Store bought rounds for those guns run $5.00 per cartridge. Thirty dollars for twenty rounds from Buffalo Arms or Underwood is serious money to me. It's still way cheaper than 375 H&H.

I don't look for 10mm cartridges in the local stores. I have a stash of Starline brass plus some Winchester. After resizing the 10mm brass it sent through a Redding push through die. This step is to make sure the cases are as right as possible. I think much of reloading can be tinkering.

I did not intend for my sharing on 10mm as a put down. Interest are just different. In some of those custom 10mm rounds missing the load data by 10% would not be noticeable down range. I still want your brass if you leave it on the group. Be safe.

 

[TruthTellers]

Huh?

As Gramps used to say: 'Park stupid; drive smart.'

At least wth the Glock 10mms, you don't need to buy the pricer '40-level' junk ammo to be able to shoot a 'reduced' power-level of 10mm.

Just pick up a drop-in LWD .40 barrel for your 10mm Glock and swap it in for the factory 10mm tube. Then go shoot all the real deal 40S&W ammo you want. Wrist-friendly and cheaper.

There are several alt-caliber barrel makers to choose from, as well as spare barrels for the Glock 10mms in .357 Sig and 9x25 Dillon.

Easy-peasy.

Can buy a .40 barrel, but the lower power 10mm is still slightly more powerful than .40 is. That low end 10mm is basically a .40+P load.

 

[mxsailor803]

For me, I couldn’t do it. While Glock is the primary 10mm platform with a couple others that are harder to find, Glock’s don’t fit my hands. Never have. I’ve also shot quite a few of them and shot them well. It feels weird to me. I wouldn’t mind the GP100 in 10mm but here’s the other problem, I already have a 629 with a massive amount of brass and bullets for. I would have to start gathering 10mm brass and really don’t feel like gathering a “new” brass. Now I do like the 10mm when it’s loaded warm enough to perform right with a .41mag. Would I buy or trade for a 10mm? If it came up for the right price, I would give it a honest chance. I’m just not going out looking for one.

 

[J.G. Terry]

Getting a 10mm Glock

Keep and eye out for the best deal. I passed on a real deal on a RIA 10mm due lack of gun funds. Also, decide what size gun you want. Look for what else is out there in 10mm. Seems like most everybody has a 10mm in the line. Good luck.

 

[American Man]

No idea but if we are trying to raise snarkiness to Huggie filling levels (your words not mine) I'm guessing by the time you fire (including firing, chasing brass, cleaning and reloading) the equivalent of the 3000 rounds of 10MM I have sitting at my house of S+B plus the several hundred of Underwood the big brown truck* could have come and gone several times.

*Most ammunition I have delivered, IIRC, comes Fedex if we want to be technical

If it is delivered correctly or in a timely manner, it is delivered by fedex. lol UPS is horrible out in the sticks... and Underwood will only use UPS.

I keep high supplies these days too. No more getting caught off guard like in the Obama era... Never Again. That S&B is the lowest powered 10mm I use and it hits steel much harder than +p 45. I don't know why anyone who owns a 10mm would buy the low powered stuff unless they just don't even look at the data.

I'll start reloading soon... I said when I get in my 50s I'll pick it up, but right now I barely have time to get stuff done as it is. I can't see getting into something that I can't give my full attention too. I'm not into half@ssing anything so when I do start, I plan on having all the time I need to make my mistakes and then fix them. lol

 

[AgedWarrior]

I wanted a good woods/mountain gun to deal with potential four legged predators, and I really enjoy loading and working with cartridges that are new to me. Since I like 1911’s I went with a RIA Ultra, and it has been a great performer; accurate and reliable.

 

[agtman]

Can buy a .40 barrel, but the lower power 10mm is still slightly more powerful than .40 is. That low end 10mm is basically a .40+P load.

You do realize you can buy what is ballistically '+P' .40S&W ammo, right? (even though it's not labeled as such)

DT, for example, sells a 200gn .40S&W load @ 1050fps. That's a +P .40 load for that bullet-weight. Underwood's 200gn HardCast offering is 50fps slower, but in .40 that's still over standard velocity (for that bullet-weight).

http://www.doubletapammo.net/index.php?route=product/product&path=303_341&product_id=108

https://www.underwoodammo.com/colle...in-hard-cast-flat-nose?variant=18785705295929

In factory 10mm ammo, 200gns @ 1000-1050fps is down-loaded junk.

So there's still no need to buy watered-down 10mm ammo if all you want to do is shoot .40-level or .40+P level ammo. Get a .40S&W drop-in tube for your G20 or G29, and blast away all day long. Over time you're saving yourself $$$.

Better still, don't get a 10mm pistol at all ... Just get a .40 pistol and call it good.

 

[9x19]

Why?

Because... it's a 10mm!

(DI gas operated RMW upper-Angstadt lower)

 

[Maineiak]

I had a 44 mag to carry around in the woods, and to play with but then I got a 10MM and left my 44 at home. I never looked back

 

[HighValleyRanch]

^^^
What 10mm did you get?