Why do you have a 10mm?

I bought a G20 Gen 4 a few years ago. I don't have it now, but it is in the hands of someone that really wanted one and will shoot the heck out of it.

Before I got it, another friend of the friend bought him 4000 rounds of ammo for it. He has plenty to practice with, plus, he lives on 7,000 acres outside of Pleasanton and has plenty of pigs, yotes, and snakes. Also, some pretty impressive deer.
 
7.62 man said:
Because we had 10mm first it was the parent case to the .40S&W.
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^^^This^^^ ...and as another fellow shooter put it, it's good "recoil therapy "! Mine is the Ruger SR1911 upon which I've done my own trigger work. Much fun! She's a real shooter! :D
 

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I mostly just wanted a 1911 in a different caliber. So, I bought a Dan Wesson using the "justification" that a black bear was sighted within an hour's drive of the city where I live. It has worked. I haven't seen a bear yet. :)
 
I don't currently have one, but I will be getting one soon. Years ago I was big into revolvers and believed a big bore .44 or .45 were the best choice for power and they are powerful, but they're not practical for any sort of carrying role because they are so big and heavy.

The 10mm is 15+1 of hand cannon hellfire and IMO a true combat pistol caliber. The .45 has its place, great for suppressors and special ops, good for home defense with the lower hard barrier penetration, but as an all around variety caliber it's not better than 10mm in performance; it is in ammo price and I think that's largely the reason why people don't gravitate to 10mm more.

Fact is the factory ammo 10mm is expensive and unnecessarily so because it's basically .40 S&W with a longer case and a few pennies more in powder. A $1 more per box for 180 grain FMJ I can understand, more brass and powder being used, but $10 more a box... please.

I had no interest in 10mm until I started reloading, then I realized I could make my own full power 10 ammo. Well, close to full power, something above the usual 1050 fps with a 180 grain bullet. IMO, if you don't currently reload and don't plan on buying any revolvers, reloading for 10mm is the answer and worth doing. It's not necessary given if you buy a 10mm Glock you can shoot .40 S&W in it, but if you want more power, unless you got money, you have to load it if you want to shoot 10mm.

That's another thing I like with 10: you can shoot .40 in it with a Glock. If I had known that in 2016, I wouldn't have bought a new Glock 35. I did buy a 9mm barrel for that G35 tho, so it's not a total waste, nor was the used G27 at used .40 prices and I'd rather have the 27 than a 29, I don't see the benefit to 10mm in a short barrel with a short grip. That's more recoil and blast with less velocity all for concealability.

The 10mm wasn't built for concealment, 9mm and .40 are.

People will say .45 has less recoil and blast than 10mm, but if you were to compare a low power 10mm load, something close to .40 S&W power, there'd be no difference and it's that variety of power with 10mm you can get that I like. You want an improved power .40 S&W JHP ammo? You can get that with 10mm. You want to load for bear? You can get that with 10mm.

The biggest benefit with 10mm is it makes the .357 revolver and even the .44 Special and Magnums obsolete. Yeah, the .357 and .44 Spc are great for self defense, .44 Mag for big animals in the woods, but unless you're carrying some Scandium frame S&W or a Charter Bulldog, those revolvers weigh you down and give you 10 less rounds to work with.

A lot is being made about 9mm and LE organizations moving back to it and the talking point being improvements to bullets make it more effective now, but the reason it was done is largely price and lower recoil. If LE could get .40/.45/10mm as cheap as 9mm, they would choose that.
 
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Lohman446 said:
The original comparison was specific to 45 ACP. I don't think .45 Super is fair to bring into the conversation anymore than .40 Super would be (is that a 45 or a 10 in this conversation :) )

I mean if we can compare the .45 Super in place of the .45 ACP can we talk about the (seemingly defunct) 10MM Magnum?
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The issue I see with .45 Super is that while it's got the velocity to put it in the league with 10mm, it doesn't have hollow point bullets that can hold up to that velocity as all .45 bullets will be built for ACP velocities.

10mm already has an issue with that in some weights, 200 grain XTP's work fine and are seemingly built for 10mm, but I think with 10mm getting popular again and the way the internet spreads information so fast that we're going to see more manufacturers like Hornady, Speer, etc. come out with .40 caliber JHP's in various weights meant for 10mm velocity.

The same could happen for .45 Super, but there isn't anywhere near as much interest in the .45 Super as there is 10mm. I guess the thinking is if you wanted a .45 auto magnum that the .460 Rowland is the way to go.
 
agtman said:
So tell me again, who said: 'nobody's makin' new 10mm pistols these days 'cause we all know it's a dead round'? :eek: :rolleyes:

Stay tuned. :cool:
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I think over the next year or two we are going to see a huge increase in the number of polymer 10mm pistols available. Ruger, S&W, Taurus, H&K, FN, Beretta don't currently offer a poly 10mm.

I can see Ruger and S&W battling it out as to who can come out with a sub $450 10mm.
 
Except that you can shoot .45 super out of a glock 21 with some minor mods which gets better or close to 10mm, and the advantage that you can shoot heavier bullets than the 10mm offers.
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The 10mm AUTO versus .45acp comparison always devolves into the 10mm checking offing more boxes - both ballistically and in terms of versatility of use (c'mon, be honest: everything's pretty much equal if it's only about putting holes-on-paper), ... at which point the .45 guys then switch to discussing the .45 Super. :confused:

Big red non sequitar flag thrown right there - 15 yards, loss of down. :eek:

Plus, on further review, you're getting another 15 yards for flagrancy for injecting the 10mm Magnum into the comparison. :rolleyes:

Does 10mm magnum fit into a standard 10mm barrel?..No
Can you shoot .45 super in a regular supported .45 barrel...yes.
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:rolleyes:

The original comparison was specific to 45 ACP. I don't think .45 Super is fair to bring into the conversation anymore than .40 Super would be (is that a 45 or a 10 in this conversation).
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Correct. Neither 'fair' nor logically relevant to the original comparison.
 
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The 10mm as a shooting adventure

The 10mm as a shooting adventure: The 10mm is unique. No comparison is necessary. The round ,for me, was a new challenging reloading proposition. Where could I go with the cartridge? Sure enough 1200fps. with a 180gr. bullet is possible. This level of performance is possible with a variety of components and state of the art bullets.

Right now, my G20.3 has the LWD barrel installed. The gun had been shot with this aftermarket barrel without trouble. I just wanted to do some work with cast bullets plus making sure the barrel was completely reliable in this G20. I use Starline brass. This time round loads will be made up with Power Pistol and water quenched 180gr. Lyman 401638 cast bullets. I had a G29 and a Smith Wesson also but let those guns go. The old standby G20 remains.

Also, if somebody is repeatedly contentious or snarky use the "ignore button" Offensive one will go away in a puff of smoke.
 
Why do I have a 10MM? Let me tell a little story about how I came about carrying a 10MM.

I was in the woods behind my house (within a couple hundred yards) with my daughter. We had gone for a little hike and she was playing in a big tree by the creek - about 3 or 4 at the time. I noticed across the creek a coyote looking across at us and as I watched it became apparent there was more than one. I was carrying a hiking staff and a SP101 at the time loaded with .357 hard cast. I didn't really want to shoot because I didn't want to scare her and I did not end up having to by it got me to thinking about carrying something with more capacity. We have delved long and hard into my thoughts on 5 shots and two legged predators but in this case the risk of multiple determined attackers (albeit much smaller in the form of coyotes) presented itself as real to me. I have a lesser concern about bears and cougars so I wanted to keep in the .357 power range.

Even though I objected to their inclusion in the discussion I did come across the .45 Super (at the time it was largely held a particular large HK could run this without issue) and discussion on the .40 Super. I leaned towards the .40 Super though the 10MM was always in consideration as was .357 SIG.

In the end I took into account the fact that I do not reload and went with the 10MM (heavier bullets than the .357 SIG). The G29 is very comparable to a SP101 in size (mine was a 3" barrel). At the time 10MM was not as popular as it is now (though it was back on the upswing).

Why did I consider those cartridges? They all offer more energy than .45 with .40 Super getting into really impressive territories. BUT really part of it was likely "edginess" The 10MM holds that spot where it is just edgy enough that not "everyone" has one and you are still able to get ammunition and firearms for it without going to extreme measures.
 
CUBAN REDNECK said:
10MM Tanfoglio Witness, good carry gun for hiking. I have wild boars, bobcats, and bears in my area. :)
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I'd like to vouch for the Tanfoglio Witness as well.

I have two, a Pavona model for my wife and a Witness Compact for me. The Witness Compact is 9mm and also converts to 10mm. Excellent and most reliable gun!
 
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Chemcal: <<after following comments, who makes a 10mm with full size barrel and subcompact grip? >>

Again, Tanfoglio Witness Compact
 
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TruthTellers said:
The issue I see with .45 Super is that while it's got the velocity to put it in the league with 10mm, it doesn't have hollow point bullets that can hold up to that velocity as all .45 bullets will be built for ACP velocities.

10mm already has an issue with that in some weights, 200 grain XTP's work fine and are seemingly built for 10mm, but I think with 10mm getting popular again and the way the internet spreads information so fast that we're going to see more manufacturers like Hornady, Speer, etc. come out with .40 caliber JHP's in various weights meant for 10mm velocity.

The same could happen for .45 Super, but there isn't anywhere near as much interest in the .45 Super as there is 10mm. I guess the thinking is if you wanted a .45 auto magnum that the .460 Rowland is the way to go.
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<< I guess the thinking is if you wanted a .45 auto magnum that the .460 Rowland is the way to go>>

I have thought about the .460 Rowland, but in my mind it has one BIG caveat. The Rowland is only shootable with a ported or compensated barrel = DEAFENING report.

The practical reasons that I could think of for .460 Rowland would be 1) hunting and 2) self defense in big bear areas. In either of those circumstances, one would not be wearing hearing protection and the blast from the ported Rowland would be downright harmful.

<<The issue I see with .45 Super is that [...] it doesn't have hollow point bullets that can hold up to that velocity as all .45 bullets will be built for ACP velocities.>>
.
Underwood and Buffalo Bore offer excellent jacketed hollow point bullets for their 45 Super rounds. DoubleTap also has them for their .450 SMC (which is another version of 45 Super).

https://www.underwoodammo.com/collections/handgun-ammo/cartridge_45-super
http://www.doubletapammo.net/index.php?route=product/category&path=303_354
 
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<< Tanfoglio Witness Compact
Those are junk. Majorly avoid. >>

agtman,

they were, in the later 90s / early 2000s, and they were infamous for frame cracking (specially the 10mm).

But they have gotten much better and reviews are very positive. Now they are considered to be one of the highest quality CZ clones, specially their competition level pistols which are very popular in tournament shooting circles.

Its kind of what has happened with KIA cars. They were known for being unreliable pofs in the late 90s and early 2000s, and because of that people do not know that they are one of the most reliable cars one can purchase today, on par with Toyota.

Anyway in my opinion EAA / Tanfoglios are great firearms, and mine definitely works flawlessly (I own two).
 
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The only 10mm I own is of the short variety in the form of a SW40VE.

I really wanted a 10mm Auto pistol for awhile and had my sights set firmly on the Ruger SR1911 10mm, but as time went by I decided I wanted a higher capacity 10mm pistol and I looked towards the Tanfoglio T95.
However, the more research I did on the 10mm Auto cartridge, the more my interest in the cartridge began to fade. Frankly, I feel that reports of the 10mm Autos comeback were greatly exaggerated. There still aren't very many choices when it comes to the available selection of 10mm pistols, and worse yet, it seems as if only Boutique ammo manufactures such as Buffalo Bore actually load the 10mm Auto substantially hotter than .40 S&W, with most manufacturers offering the so-called FBI Load. So I can't see getting into 10mm Auto if the vast majority of ammo is basically just .40 S&W in a longer case, I don't want to spend a lot of money on boutique ammo to get maximum performance out of the cartridge, and I lack the necessary resources to get into handloading at this time.

Hopefully someday 10mm Auto will indeed make a comeback, with lots of new firearms being chambered in the cartridge and ammo manufactures will actually load full SAAMI Spec 10mm ammo, but given the sheer amount of folks who complain about .40 S&W having harsh recoil, I doubt that full house 10mm Auto will see much mainstream appeal.
 
Forte S+W said:
The only 10mm I own is of the short variety in the form of a SW40VE.

I really wanted a 10mm Auto pistol for awhile and had my sights set firmly on the Ruger SR1911 10mm, but as time went by I decided I wanted a higher capacity 10mm pistol and I looked towards the Tanfoglio T95.
However, the more research I did on the 10mm Auto cartridge, the more my interest in the cartridge began to fade. Frankly, I feel that reports of the 10mm Autos comeback were greatly exaggerated. There still aren't very many choices when it comes to the available selection of 10mm pistols, and worse yet, it seems as if only Boutique ammo manufactures such as Buffalo Bore actually load the 10mm Auto substantially hotter than .40 S&W, with most manufacturers offering the so-called FBI Load. So I can't see getting into 10mm Auto if the vast majority of ammo is basically just .40 S&W in a longer case, I don't want to spend a lot of money on boutique ammo to get maximum performance out of the cartridge, and I lack the necessary resources to get into handloading at this time.

Hopefully someday 10mm Auto will indeed make a comeback, with lots of new firearms being chambered in the cartridge and ammo manufactures will actually load full SAAMI Spec 10mm ammo, but given the sheer amount of folks who complain about .40 S&W having harsh recoil, I doubt that full house 10mm Auto will see much mainstream appeal.
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Recoil hasn't stopped stuff like lightweight alloy .357 revolver or .44 Mag or larger caliber revolvers from selling. When people want substantially more power, they accept the heavier recoil.

The deal with .40 is it's not going to allow you to shoot accurately as fast as 9mm will because, yeah, there's more recoil, but I feel that the complaints about .40's recoil have more to do with making an excuse not to buy .40 due to the ammo price.

Your reasoning on boutique ammo makers is sound, I don't like those who tout .357's power because of one Buffalo Bore load, so the same goes for 10mm. If you don't reload then you're gonna pay a lot for that hot 10mm ammo. The difference between that .357 and 10mm ammo is that you can load that 10mm ammo to those velocities with standard powders, but the .357 you can't because Buffalo Bore is using a special powder we don't have access to.

No matter what defense ammo you buy for 10mm, you're going to end up spending $1 a round. While the reduced 10mm load isn't what 10mm can be, it's still better than what .40 is, yet more controllable due to the larger size of the 10mm guns.

You make enough valid points to not get 10mm, so I can't say you're wrong, but I think all things 10mm are going to improve greatly over the next couple of years.
 
"Full house" guns (meaning full case support) 10mm are about all you can find on the market now. I bought mine back when the only game in town was really the Glock 20. The market has exploded compared to what there used to be available.

If you really want to know why the 10mm is so appealing--try this little exercise; take a full capacity 10mm magazine, and using the ballistics figures for say a 6" barrel (a common long slide offering) and multiply the energy of a "full house" cartridge times the number of cartridges held in the magazine plus + in the chamber. Do that for any other handgun and chances are you'll have a hard time finding one that approaches the 10mm in terms of over-all efficiency in delivering net power. My Glock 20 with 15 cartridge capacity ends up with potential energy deliverable well over 11,000 ftlbs
 
Experience

Experience: It's nice to hear comments from people who actually own, shoot and reload for the 10mm. What stands out for me personally is that the G20, so far as I know, has been in production longer than any other 10mm handgun. The bugs have been worked out.

Like many other Glock owners, the only time I am keenly aware of Glock's ergonomics is when handling another more modern less blocky handgun. Next comes the "so what". Striker fired? Look at the number of Glock knock-offs in the market. All of it works great for me.

Incidentally, I have no problem with ruined brass. Their is no shortage of reloading data. Bullets? I can cast my own hollow points for 40/10mm along with the truncated cone Lyman bullet.

It's apparent when some posts are comparisons of gun rag articles. Bull Hockey:eek:

Added: If you need to pick your handguns from what ammo the Big Box sells you are up the creek without a paddle. Period
 
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