Real ID coming soon

Great. An 80 year old book written in another country.

And me being illogical because I don't have some fear of an ID card. Oh, well.
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You discredit all books or opinions based on an expiration date?

You are illogical because you do not base your arguments on fact or real world scenerios. The illogical part of your argument is a "I am not doing anything that I feel is wrong so I never have anything to fear from anyone" mentality in spite of what history has taught us about person freedoms.

As they say, "Those that ignore history..."
 
First published in 1925 when some noticed that there were certain "problems" with modern government.
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Even your source, Wikpedia, notes that analyzing The Trial in terms of government is superficial.

Nice try. Reading it would help.

WildhaveyouhuggedyourTavortodayAlaska ™
 
This is a very enlightening discussion of RFID technology, even though plans do not call for them to be included in the Real ID cards.
 
"At first, it's to get on board a plane, you can bet trains, boats, and buses will be added to that as well. It's to regulate entering of federal buildings, well the Post Office is a federal building is it not? Imagine having to scan in, just to go to the dam PO."

For some of us it is here now. Have had my current retired Army ID card for seven years. Always wondered what the bar code was for. On one of my recent trips to a nearby military base I found out what it is for. The gate guard took his spiffy new bar code reader and scanned my ID card. Now they are routinely scanning IDs. Personally do not have a problem with the Army doing this; after all, I signed on the dotted line and draw retired pay.
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Yes, now imagine needing to be scanned just to be a citizen. And to be labeled as a suspicious person or an enemy of the state because you don't want to be scanned. But I'm not worried, I'm a vet, I'm on Uncle's side, I pay my taxes. I have nothing to worry about. They can take whoever they want for all I care, just as long as it doesn't affect me.

I don't want to insert roll eyes smiley. I'm disgusted.
 
It would take a signal strong enough to cook everything nearby to have any range
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Why can cell phones communicate so far, or how about about satellite phones? Or is this something to do with frequency?
 
TWIC Transportation Workers ID card

here is another little ditty from the offices of Homeland Security. With all the other IDs a person might have to carry persons if the commercial fishing industry have to have a TWIC. A recient announcement here in my home town, Kodiak, Alaska let all the thousands of commercial fisherman know they can not use a commercial dock to load or unload thier fishing gear unless everyone has a TWIC card. That list of who needs a TWIC card includes the truck driver who has to enter the area to deliver the fishing gear.


But hey its OK the Homeland Security people know whats best for us. Having to have multiple background checks, multiple ID cards and paying multiple fee in excess of $ 100 each is necessary. Necessary because the HS idiot's cannot possibly come up with one ID to cover everything. After all if you get a background check through HS for a drivers licenses you might be a different person if you also happened to be a commercial fisherman and yet another person for one of the other permits. And of course none of that information could ever be connected to the NCIS gun buyer system.

The classic part of this: you can not get a TWIC with out going to an office of the private contractor who can issue such ID's. Closest one will be 1,500 miles away if it get open in 2008. Otherwise the closest one is in LA 2,800 miles away.
 
It would take a signal strong enough to cook everything nearby to have any range
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People keep getting hung up on range and real time tracking. I assume this is simply because they have no actual field experience in apprehensions of suspects.

Why do you need to track someone real time and run after them, giving them the chance to see you coming and fight or flee, when you can simply turn every doorway, turnstile, traffic light, and firehydrant a separate pair of eyes and map out a pattern of behavior and habit and then simply set up an ambush in a place they frequent and wait.

When I was in MI my first MOS was a 96B which is an Intel analyst. The vast majority of people captured are caught in the manner I mentioned. Tracking people real time is unnecessary and this knocking down doors and going from house to house you see on TV now is very ineffectual and mainly just for show. An actively chased target tends to shoot back or escape. One that is caught in a snare is caught for good.
 
Why do you need to track someone real time and run after them, giving them the chance to see you coming and fight or flee, when you can simply turn every doorway, turnstile, traffic light, and firehydrant a separate pair of eyes and map out a pattern of behavior and habit and then simply set up an ambush in a place they frequent and wait.
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That is a nifty concept; if it caught on with police departments, RFID might become a real threat.
 
That is a nifty concept; if it caught on with police departments, RFID might become a real threat.
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You are confusing active enforcement of the law with pursuit and apprehension of potential political suspects.

This is not a matter of suspect A committed a crime and is now fleeing.

It is a case of suspect A has been attending meeting of this group, frequenting these suspect establishment, etc and and now needs to be picked up for detainment and questioning. We know from his movements that he stops at this Starbucks every day around 1pm.
 
Why can cell phones communicate so far, or how about about satellite phones? Or is this something to do with frequency?
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Keep in mind we are talking about a passive device. It has no power of it's own and is credit card size. Some signal from another source is bounced back off of this device.
If it had it's own power source it could work like a cell phone but would have to have batteries, be recharged and all that. Out of the scheme of an ID card.
 
You are confusing active enforcement of the law with pursuit and apprehension of suspected political suspects.
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So a person does not have to worry about this technique/technology unless they do not know they are being pursued?
 
I will rip the chip out of the RFID. It is bad enough that I have to have it to log onto the computers at work for my Military ID. Needless to say, I never take it with me except to and from work. The day they tell me I need a chip under my skin is the day I leave. And I quote:

'Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add 'within the limits of the law' because law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the rights of the individual.'
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-Thomas Jefferson
 
Gentlemen:

If I may make so bold, the above baloney, which has been discussed in I forget how many posts here, and who knows how many elsewhere is the bastard child of the following, at least it is so in my view.

Just think on the following. How many years has it been that all manner of bureaucratic drones in both the public as well as the private sectors have been demanding and for the most part getting, as they are variously known, your socials, your sochs, your Social Security Numbers and or as it they been described, your social slave numbers for all manner of things, virtually none of them having any legitimate connection with Social Security or a claim for benefits there under. How often have you all complied with such requests or demands, without so much as the slightest question. BTW, to some extent, I too am guilty of the above mentioned blind compliance. What was that old saw, something about thus thou shall reap, as thou hast sown.

Should it turn out that the thing is to far gone down the road to, at this point stop, we have nobody to blame but ourselves.
 
You're correct alan, and I mentioned that in my earlier post as a reason REAL ID isn't necessary, because we already provide this for any type of secure transaction or employment, tax verification. Illegals do not have one, and they don't require one to wash dishes or bus tables.
 
I will rip the chip out of the RFID
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Not necessary. A short time in the microwave oven will destroy the RFID chip. "Dunno what happened, guess my Real ID card dropped into the pizza box. ZAP!"

Mike
 
That's a good idea Mike. I was thinking about just not getting one too- what could they do? Put me in jail because I don't go get an ID? Are we going to start doing ID checkpoints like tyrannical or otherwise nuts countries? It must be noted that a driver's license is only required to drive on public roads, not to identify us.

To reply to Alan, I have to say I have never given out my social to anyone who did not need it. This is why I have never had a vehicle loan and never had a movie rental account. I resent the fact that I am required to use it as my service number in the USMC.
 
From 30 Jan., Pgh Post-Gazette Letters, thought it might interest some here

No to national ID
The Bush administration preaches from the White House pulpit about the virtues of liberty and freedom abroad, while systematically ignoring the same virtues domestically. While the right hand spies on and mocks habeas corpus, the left hand beats the drum about the righteousness of democracy and the necessity to go to war to protect it.

The administration hopes to strike civil liberties once more with its implementation of the Real ID Act, which essentially federalizes state drivers' licenses and creates a de facto national ID ("Driver's License Detour?" Jan. 12) -- this, to protect the liberties we are supposed to have from terrorism.

The program will infringe on what privacy we have left and enable the government to create a national database with information on all individuals. The potential for large-scale identity theft and terrorism will still exist. After all, if a terrorist organization is sophisticated enough to pull off 9/11, it is surely able to forge an ID card.

This is a national ID. Without public protest and absolute objection from the state legislatures, we approve of a surveillance state. I am not an alarmist, but I find the following quote from the Department of Homeland Security's Web site to be most alarming: "The REAL ID Act requires that a REAL ID driver's license be used for 'official purposes,' as defined by DHS." The DHS is accountable only to the president, whoever he or she may be, and not to the public. "Official purposes" can mean anything in this brave new world.

MARK BYRNE
Castle Shannon




Posters Thought: Some might put it as follows. The DHS could well turn out to be, if it has not already become, one of the greatest threats to the individual liberties of Americans in their own country. For instance, as Mr. Byrne asks, would someone please define "official purposes", including all the wonderous and perhaps gory details of the term.
 
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Gestapo? KGB? DHS?

Is it such a stretch?

Those guys (DHS) are already a bunch of cocky tail sniffers in my humble opinion, and at least two whom I have personally spoken with have verbally advocated torture. God knows what they think we'd deserve if, Heaven forbid, we don't get our Real ID...
 
alan said:
Some might put it as follows. The DHS could well turn out to be, if it has not already become, one of the greatest threats to the individual liberties of Americans in their own country. For instance, as Mr. Byrne asks, would someone please define "official purposes", including all the wonderous and perhaps gory details of the term.
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That is my real objection to this whole thing, alan.

According to the legislation that was passed and signed, that little phrase on the extent of the Secretary of Homeland Defense, "and other purposes," gives a very wide latitude for what this ID may eventually be used for. It isn't at all constrained by the simple wording of what it may be used for at the start, as those "other purposes" are not defined.
 
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