Real ID coming soon

at the end of post #153 ZeroJunk writes:

I see nothing in common with the leaders of this country, as many faults as they may have, and Hitler. It would suit me if a real ID card could keep track of neo nazis.

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Re the above, the following comes to mind.

While some sort of National ID Card might keep track of "neo nazis", how would you arrange things so that government could not/would not also be keeping track of YOU, or might it be that you do not mind having your day to day activities, or perhaps morning to afternoon activities "supervised" by some supposedly well meaning Big Brother type(s)?

If that be your position, I must respectfully decline to share your view of things. You are, of course, entitled to that view. I hope that what appears to be your overweaning trust in government is not, at some point in the perhaps not to distant future, shattered. You see, I have it appears, less trust in government than you appear have.

BTW, in a later post, if I remember correctly, you offered that credit cards can't be forged. Given the operations of credit card offerers, and the fact that they seem to shower one and all with endless offers for the latest and greatest in credit cards, is forgery of these cards a necessity?
 
ZeroJunk said:
Deporting the millions of illegal aliens will hurt the stock market because it is simply bad for business. Deporting them will cost me money.
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Ya see? That is exactly why the borders won't be shut. That is also the exact reason why the Federales won't do what Arizona has done. Penalize any and all business' that hire illegal aliens.

If this National ID was coupled to the ability to work (what the form I-99 was supposed to do), then I might be more agreeable to it. Because that is the only way to stop the flow across the borders. No work, no reason to be here.

But it isn't and it won't be. Way too much money involved to do the sensible thing.
But, the overall consensus on this forum and the non-Latino population in general would be to deport them if possible just as sure as the turning of the Earth.
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There are a whole lot of citizens from all races that want to stop this (stop the influx of illegal aliens).

But let's get back to something within the framework of this thread, shall we?
The part about illegal immigrants is because that is the public outcry that is driving the whole concept.
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That was the reasoning of the original stand-alone bill. That bill was defeated. It is not however, part of reasoning of the amendment to the Public Law 109-13, the Emergency Supplemental Appropriations Act for Defense, the Global War on Terror, and Tsunami Relief Act of 2005.

Isn't it simply amazing how we can circumvent the Constitution in the name of National Security?
Most of you cannot have that type discussion without some emotional reaction overtaking your ability to make your case.
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Really? I'm being emotional? How about this post. Or this one. Most importantly, this post. Shall I go on to point to my posts in the other threads I've already referenced?
As far as some secret agenda, that gets in to the hypothetical which conspiracy theorists have so much fun with.
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This is no conspiracy theory. The law, in black and white text, says that the Sec. DHS may mandate use of the Real ID for any other purpose he might determine, for national security purposes, of course. Further, I have not intimated what the DHS might or might not require in the future. Hardly the halmark of a conspiracy theorist.

Do you really want to hand over that kind of power to an unelected official? And just where did the Congress get that sort of power to begin with anyway?

So no, ZeroJunk, I have been very rational about why I oppose this. Just as you were about RFID's.
 
and the fact that they seem to shower one and all with endless offers for the latest and greatest in credit cards, is forgery of these cards a necessity?
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Forging one that you can buy with and not be billed or get it billed to somebody else is the task. Information is occasionally stolen, but try making one from scratch.

Government is not as benign as you think I think it is, nor as evil as many on this forum seem to think it is.

It would suit me if a real ID card could keep track of neo nazis.
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That was tongue in cheek. The surveillance some of you are so paranoid of is logistically and electromagnetically impossible using a passive device. The paranoia is thinking that the government wants to keep up with you.

I have at least 100 yellow sheets with my name and address on them. Do you think I care if the government knows I went in a gun store.
 
Sorry Antipitas, wasn't directed at you. Don't recall you saying anything about ignorance because I stated the other side of this. Would be a pretty useless forum if everybody thought the same about everything.
 
I'm sorry too, ZJ. That last quote of yours, that I used, was directed at me for saying that the SecDHS could use the ID for any purpose he named.

Ya see, I'm very leery of conspiracy theorists. I routinely delete posts, close threads and ban people for such activities. So when I state something, like I did, it is backed up with the legal language used in the law itself (see post #57). So yeah, I get a little riled up when people hit me with being or encouraging borderline conspiracy.
 
As far as some secret agenda, that gets in to the hypothetical which conspiracy theorists have so much fun with.
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That's exactly what I said. Keywords being "secret agenda". And, I'll stick to it.
 
WOW! I've seen blind people before but zero you are lost in yesterday's technology. When I was kid no one would of dreamed of a cordless phones much less cell phones, the internet, et.. Now days OUR goverment is selling our information daily. Look at the crap I get just after renewing my DL or buying a hunting license. Look at hackers screwing up peoples Pcs. Some wise guy is going to wreck other people chips when they walk by, on their wat to board a plane. Oppps Your chip isnt right you cant board the plane.
FFL dealers will have to have a system in order to keep there FFL (if they still remain). OH ZERO you have been to 2 gun shops this month "That way more than the national average" so you card is now flagged and will be useless until we get things cleaned up. Zero we also see you have not upgraded your firearm's micro marking firing pin. It also shows that we have no record of your disposal of the banned .22, semi auto shotgun, semi auto rifles, and handguns you had. Remember you are allowed 1 weapon for self defense only, these weapons do not fall in to the single shot shotgun catergory. As far as credit cards, it happen everyday so why are you saying it's so hard. It's only the beginning. What next? Tattoos, embeded chips at birth? Give them an inch they take a foot.
Look at how safe gun bans have made people.
Ps look at satelites and how they can zoom in or thermo heat sensors. I dont have a battery or transmitter in me, but I can already be seen from more then your so called few feet! Sad part about it is you will probably be the one whining about it years from now!
I SAY NO ALSO! And no they dont have MY permission to call me like they can with YOU!
Sorry I blew up!
 
Mike, It's a far cry from finding a heat signature to knowing who it is.

But, your post pretty well sums it up for the " I
have no idea how this works, but by god I know they will do it" crowd.
 
And I quote:

"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both."

-Benjamin Franklin
 
Let me explain one more time before I throw in the towel.

Unless you are hardwired or have a siren on you, a signal with any information on it will be an electromagnetic wave. It runs from direct current to visible light. Same stuff, just different frequency and wavelength. Wavelengths from miles to nanometers. To put information on it you can modulate it or put a digital signal on it, but the wave has to be there.
It takes energy.The higher the frequency, the more energy it takes to travel any distance. To increase the distance you increase the transmit power which at the frequencies dictated by the size of the card as the target are hazardous to biological life anywhere near the transmit antenna. Microwave oven for example.

This is a law of physics, you cannot get around it.

For that reason a passsive RF ID will always be limited to some short distance.

That in itself may be a very bad idea. But, exagerating the capabilities to make it seem more diabolical is just bad science.
 
I just ran across this today.

Q: What about buying firearms?
That's an open question. Homeland Security last month refused to rule out requiring Real ID for firearm purchases in the future.

When asked about requiring Real ID to buy a firearm, Homeland Security replied: "DHS will continue to consider additional ways in which a Real ID license can or should be used and will implement any changes to the definition of 'official purpose' or determinations regarding additional uses for Real ID consistent with applicable laws and regulatory requirements. DHS does not agree that it must seek the approval of Congress as a prerequisite to changing the definition in the future."
Read the Complete Article
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Somehow, I knew this was where it'd go.
 
Much ado about nothing, especially to those of us who have spent time outside the US and have thus had "Real ID" since they were mere sprouts.

WildhaveyouhuggedyourGrizzlyBigBoarAlaska ™
 
Yeah WA, but don't you at least think there is a huge difference to have it on a military ID while you're IN the military and having it on every citizen in the US? Or rather, having to produce it in order to BE a citizen?

ZJ is being hung up on the tech, frankly, the capabilities of the technology is irrelevant. It's that you will have to produce it in order to do certain things, and even before Pat H posted the link about the sec of DHS talked about possibly using it for gun purchases, I mentioned it. It's the principle of the matter here people.
 
Yeah WA, but don't you at least think there is a huge difference to have it on a military ID while you're IN the military and having it on every citizen in the US? Or rather, having to produce it in order to BE a citizen?
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I'm talking about my passport. Quite franly, if they made it so my DL was as good as my Passport, I'd be happy, one less thing to carry.

WildhaveyouhuggedyourS&W1917todayAlaska TM
 
Ken, I should not need a passport, in order to conduct business with the local Social Security office. Requiring internal "papers" to to conduct official business with the federal government or to freely move about this country is anathema to our Liberty, Kent v. Dulles, 357 U.S. 116 (1958).
 
Ken, I should not need a passport, in order to conduct business with the local Social Security office. Requiring internal "papers" to to conduct official business with the federal government or to freely move about this country is anathema to our Liberty, Kent v. Dulles, 357 U.S. 116 (1958).
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On the other hand Al, whats the practical difference between a drivers license or stae ID card and a "real ID" in terms of showing who you are.

In other words, on a pure basic level, where is the infringement of liberty where the government specifies what type of documentation is necessary to establish identity..



WildhaveyouhuggedyourSuperBlackhawktodayAlaska TM
 
passport not adequate

WildAlaska you know a passport can get you into most places in the world. Soon you will need it to return to the US from anyplace. But you can not use it by itself to buy a firearm. It does not have a residential address. :D

Chritoff's Real ID is not going to replace the passport as it is not in compliance with international standards for passports. So you need both before its over. And a few more if you should happen to be in certain occupations. TWIC to cross commercial docks and commercial drivers license with special ID & endorsements to haul hazardous material. And the list continues from there. This is not fabrication of what you need to have it is current rules by Homeland Security.
 
In other words, on a pure basic level, where is the infringement of liberty where the government specifies what type of documentation is necessary to establish identity..
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First and foremost, It a power of the State. Unless you can show where in the Constitution this power is granted to the Federal Government, then the Feds are simply usurping the States authority.

But that's the argument on a pure basic level. Shall we start there, before we get into any infringements?
 
While the sarcasm is noted, ZeroJunk, would you care to take a stab at my question?

Under what authority do the feds operate here?
 
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