What's Wrong With Ron Paul?
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I have no problem with taxes, except for the huge amount of waste. I am talking about Social Security. Why do I owe YOU one cent for social security?
Social Security is completely different from the taxes collected for infrastructure and defense, except in the eyes of those conditioned to expect entitlements. You want to see the problem with SS, the baby boomers are the ones crashing it. They are a huge lump forcing their way through the system, like a whole pig through a python. We have a system designed around you having an average lifespan of 65 with a far greater ration of contributors to recipients than we have now and it is only going to grow worse. The boomers pumped out far fewer contributors than their parents while at the same time claiming far more of the SS benefits and for far longer than the system was ever designed to sustain. Based on that though you fault me for not wanting to perpetuate a system that benefits the current generation approaching collection at the expense of every following one. All of those following generations, like mine, will be unable to enjoy the same benefits because the system is unstable and doomed to collapse as anyone who can do basic math can see.
As I said though, I wish you good luck with your entitlement expectations. I'll pay for them but just stop the system before it grows worse. I'll pay, but stop the gravy train from continuing for any under 40 as of today. We can be the generation that cleans up the mess that was left for us, since it will be there no matter what.
The Tourist said:
Dear Mr Tourist,
I never recieved my early-years check. If you could please send that out to me, that would be great. Afterall, you paid for your roads, your soldiers, your fire departments. My streets were kept safe by your police, and troublemakers went through your courts, but i never recieved a check for being too young to work. Now that i have to pay for your retirement plus all the previously mentioned items, you owe me for my youth.
Thank you,
Molson
Your theory only works of Paul has a right to be on the news. Last time I checked there is no constitutional right to be on the news.
Of course this ignores the fact that he's been invited to the debates (even though democrats with his numbers were not), been on Jay Leno, has been playing his tv ads and STILL been interviewed by the pundits since the NH primary.
Since we know that no one has a right to be on the news, you seem to think that Paul has done something worthy of being covered. He hasn't won a single primary, or even come close. His best finish has been 2nd place when the 1st place finisher recieved more then 50% of the vote.
In all the primary coverages I've watched, Paul's name has been mentioned and his paltry 3% is flashed up on the screen along with the rest of the candidates. He's been covered.
What makes you think Paul has done anything deserving of any more coverage than he's getting?
Last I checked, in a free country people are free to draw inferences from the company one keeps.
Honorable men don't take money from, nor pose for pictures with neo-nazis. I don't expect Paul to know who everybody is. Just those people who already have public notoriety, and have been the source of your campaign donation "scandal".
The Tourist
Moderator
Molson said:
If you know who your daddy is, contact him. He was supposed to take care of you--by law. I had no children.
Musketeer said:
We also jammed a big ol' wad of cash through the system when we were fully 1/3 of the working force. Play by the rules. You benefited from that "pig in the python," time to be an adult.
Sorry if we're not dying fast enough to suit you. But then, you're not working hard enough to support us, so it's a wash.
The X and Y generation didn't seem too concerned about the mad cash "tax and spend" era that they praise RP for criticizing now. When they benefited from taxes and spending there was no cry from younger folks for someone like RP to come onto the stage.
Now, of course, they find out just what the tab costs for "the real America." And truth be told, your taxes should be jacked up even more to care for the veterans I see at the hospital.
We can argue about taxes, but trust me, there are those who have paid into the system a lot more than the both of us.
Wildalaska
Moderator
If you think folks can come up and meet the candidates like that without someone on a staff somewhere not knowing who those folks are, you havent been involved in the Political process very long.
Ron Paul knows who Don Black is.
WilddonblacksmoneywasgoodtooLOLAlaska TM
PS
OK...I love Obama...gimme the dirt on him
There is no dirt on Obama. If the stupid gaggle of Democrats would get together and nominate him, they would win the election no contest. Which is why John McCain will be our next president. He's a man of honesty, integrity, and diplomacy. If he would change his position on the 2nd Amendment, I would love him to be our next president.
Dear Molson:
In case you haven't figured it out yet, Mr. Tourist is impervious to logic. His not having children is part of the reason he's a drain. He wanted to spend his money on himself instead of having children who could pay into the system to support him. He ain't our father but wants us to act like it and pay for his old age. Time to pull the plug.
In case you haven't figured it out yet, Mr. Tourist is impervious to logic. His not having children is part of the reason he's a drain. He wanted to spend his money on himself instead of having children who could pay into the system to support him. He ain't our father but wants us to act like it and pay for his old age. Time to pull the plug.
Shane Tuttle
Staff
Quoted by Pat H
Are you really serious, Pat? There's absolutely, positively, NO WAY Paul has ANY chance.
With questionable sources at best that you site, I must ask the same of you. Stage2 does have valid points...
Well, that's your opinion, but not a fact.
Quoted by ZeroJunk
Really? And how do you come to this conclusion?
1. Change the way he carries himself in front of the camera. Calmer demeaner.
2. Actually listen to what question is asked. He can't stick to the topic at hand without going off a tangent.
3. Get his supporters under control. Like it or not, the behavior of some of them provide a negative image of what Paul is. I think this has done more harm to his campaigning than anything else.
4. He needs to come right out and publicly condemn the individuals that others proclaim he has ties with. Silence is acceptance in the public eye.
These are a few key items that would have helped him out earlier in the race. However, it's not going to do any good now. The damage is done.
You know, I've sat on the sidelines for the most part on the Ron Paul threads without getting too deep into it. But, I think it's high time that I say my two cents worth. From my observations...
1. It will be great to see threads started about guns actually outnumber threads started about RP.
2. I don't think very many RP supporters will actually see reality sink in that he will not get the nomination.
3. I don't think very many RP supporters actually see that they do more harm than good to his campaign. This is on many, many levels.
4. I believe that RP would actually be a viable candidate if he ran his campaign much differently. A person may know how to fix cars, but doesn't mean that person can run his own auto shop.
5. The more I read these threads and post my reactions, the more that I'm drifting from my father's advice...
Are you really serious, Pat? There's absolutely, positively, NO WAY Paul has ANY chance.
With questionable sources at best that you site, I must ask the same of you. Stage2 does have valid points...
Well, that's your opinion, but not a fact.
Quoted by ZeroJunk
Really? And how do you come to this conclusion?
1. Change the way he carries himself in front of the camera. Calmer demeaner.
2. Actually listen to what question is asked. He can't stick to the topic at hand without going off a tangent.
3. Get his supporters under control. Like it or not, the behavior of some of them provide a negative image of what Paul is. I think this has done more harm to his campaigning than anything else.
4. He needs to come right out and publicly condemn the individuals that others proclaim he has ties with. Silence is acceptance in the public eye.
These are a few key items that would have helped him out earlier in the race. However, it's not going to do any good now. The damage is done.
You know, I've sat on the sidelines for the most part on the Ron Paul threads without getting too deep into it. But, I think it's high time that I say my two cents worth. From my observations...
1. It will be great to see threads started about guns actually outnumber threads started about RP.
2. I don't think very many RP supporters will actually see reality sink in that he will not get the nomination.
3. I don't think very many RP supporters actually see that they do more harm than good to his campaign. This is on many, many levels.
4. I believe that RP would actually be a viable candidate if he ran his campaign much differently. A person may know how to fix cars, but doesn't mean that person can run his own auto shop.
5. The more I read these threads and post my reactions, the more that I'm drifting from my father's advice...
Your not dying fast or slow enough has nothing to do with suiting me. It is the economic system of entitlements which was designed around you living to 65 in which you now average 78 which is the problem. Instead of your generation dying off at an average of 65, which SS was designed around, you all consider yourself in the bonus round! The bonus though is paid by the generations behind you. You are smart enough to see the problem I hope...
Your generation devours more from the system than it was ever intended to do and then you accuse us, of which there is a smaller contributor to recipient ratio than when you were young, of not working hard enough. Your logic astounds me to say nothing of arrogance and a Ted Kennedy level of love for entitlements. Just as I have said, all pigs at the trough, some red and some blue but pigs nonetheless.
http://mwhodges.home.att.net/soc_sec.htm
Is it fair that, according a 1997 report by the Social Security Commissioner, "From now on young workers and workers of future generations will be paying over their working lifetimes employee and employer taxes that add to considerably more than the present value of their anticipated benefits?"
I tell you what, how about we take the same percentage of Social Security out of my pay today as was done 30 or 40 years ago and see how you get by?
Wow, I benefited so much from tax and spend. Thanks for letting me know. I am still paying off the student loans for my engineering degree, Aerospace Engineering having gone completely into the toilet as a viable career when I graduated in Dec 92. Of course I have been paying my own way, as well as that of my wife who is a stay at home mom for our two kids since we feel tightening our belts to raise a family properly is more important than matching Lexus SUVs in the driveway and a McMansion. There are no flat screen HDTV plasmas in my home and even my last gun purchase was a Remignton 870 express for home defense and trap (with a barrel I got off EBAY).
Woo Hoo, I am living the high life!
STAGE2 said:
Hey, looky! I managed to extract a grudging compliment to Ron Paul supporters from STAGE2!
That blimp really amused me. A quirky little side project which raised something like half a million dollars. That tells me there is something right with Ron Paul's message of individual freedom and smaller government.
Wildalaska
Moderator
That could equally tell ya that there are folks who believe in Area 51, The Protocols, and that there is no law mandating you pay taxes.
WildhaveyouhuggedyourstentodayAlaska ™
The Tourist
Moderator
Musketeer said:
That's funny, you didn't complain when that worked in your favor.
The children of the 'boomers wanted for nothing. We were work-ethic driven individuals who believed in peace and family. There was more computer memory in the toys, music and PC's of the average gen-Xer's bedroom than in the entire landing module that went to the moon. (The LLM ran out of memory, forcing the crew to land manually.)
But now the few don't get to take anymore from the many. I believe I'm going to cry.
I worked, I paid in, and I played fair. The money was never yours. What I believe operates here is class envy.
But be clear, I never worked to guaranty a worry-free lifestyle for your generation. I worked to support myself and my wife.
Picture yourself going through the very thing you expect of me. Every time you make a buck, someone comes from the government and takes 30 cents.
Their explanation is, "This is for the yet unborn. They'll need it. They're entitled to it." Why? And who cares? Are they going to be born with broken arms so they can't work?
I hope I'm around when you retire, and I'd like to hear your opinion on "fairness" at that time.
Starscream02
Moderator
I want a Presidential candidate that will tell me what he is going to do, not just what he wants to do, or how he feels. Ron Paul in unrealistic. He doesn't take the (un)likelihood of Congress actually going along with him in any of his plans. He has lots of good ideas to be sure, but almost none of them are even close to possible. So I would rather him tell me what he actually has a chance of getting done.
From the beginning I never thought he could get the nomination, but I do really like his message. And I like the idea of him debating a smug McCain. And possibly steering the republicans back on course. Sure congress has to work with any president to accomplish or derail their agenda. There isn't a platform among the remaining viable candidates that is workable for the economic good of this country. McCain more war and taxes, Clinton & Obama, much more welfare and taxes. Folks, Ron Paul is the last patriot out there. Picture him the oval office with veto pen in hand telling congress to sharpen their pencils cut the pork knock off the earmarks and try again. That would be four years of entertainment!
Who is going to be the patriot to come forward in 2012? Going to run a reformed conservative 75 y/o McCain?
Who is going to be the patriot to come forward in 2012? Going to run a reformed conservative 75 y/o McCain?
The Toursit said:
What do you mean worked in my favor!?!? I got news for you bub, my father was a union construction worker to the day he died at 59. While he did what he could to help with education the vast majority of it was (and still is) being paid for by myself. My sister was the same. I haven't taken squat from the many.
Perhaps you are referring to the free ride my wife got, the one where she had to help her mom pay the rent for their dinky apartment at 16 because her non-contributing father (75 now and gobbling up gov't money for everything while having contributed next to nothing his whole life) lost the family home, inherited business and was essentially a total failure leaving a wife and two kids to fend for themselves. Noble baby boomer there for certain!
Talk about consumerism, how do you think we got to the point that most everything on American shelves is now made in China (with the manufacturing jobs gone as well)?
Before you go accusing me of taking from the many get your facts straight. Anything I did get for free came from my parents as they were able to and chose to do so. I likewise am doing so for my children. I don't owe you one damn cent and spit in your face at the expectation that I owe you something financially with regards to SS. If you are a Vet then you certainly are due something for that and I would not begrudge it but SS stolen from my check just because you are an over 65 American is a farce.
You continually avoid the point that you and your generation are benefiting from a system in a manner you were never intended to when it was established. You were the ones who elected to have fewer children so YOU could have more stuff! Then you turn around and say, "well sonny, there are fewer of you than there should be because we didn't do our part to support the system so now go get to work and support me!"
The system of SS (which you continually forget this is about, confusing it with every other gov't program out there) was specifically designed around contributions beginning at the age the average American lived to. It was specifically designed for a set ration of contributors to recipients.
Basic math tells you that if you have a population with an average lifespan above that number then consumption goes beyond the original plan. Basic math also says that if the preceding generation does not do its part with population growth to maintain the contributor to recipient ratio then again the system goes out of balance and breaks down.
It is your generation which is living longer and your generation which had less children than the one before it, don't blame me for that. I am not asking you to die earlier but how about raising the age eligible to collect SS to what it was designed to be, the average American lifespan? That should be 76-78. While we are at it the percentage expected from the contributors salary should in no way be increase because YOU decided to have fewer children and broke the system. The generation which did not provide a stable population base to support SS should have to deal with the consequences, not the generation left behind. Let your individual checks be based solely on the set percentage from the contributors without jacking up their SS taxes for your shortcomings in population planning.
None of this is new. You can easily find these arguments made back to the 1970s (probably earlier if you search hard enough). By the 70s it was clear the boomers were having fewer children than their parents, lifespans were increasing and the system was in danger. You have no problem sitting back and expecting me to pay for your failings. I on the other hand have known from my first day in the work force that the SS Tax coming out of my check would never be seen by me again.
There is NO WAY the system can continue so I have no SS contribution planned into my retirement. I, unlike you, am not arrogant and selfish enough to expect my children's generation to contribute to a broken SS system to support me.
What do you mean worked in my favor!?!? I got news for you bub, my father was a union construction worker to the day he died at 59. While he did what he could to help with education the vast majority of it was (and still is) being paid for by myself. My sister was the same. I haven't taken squat from the many.
Perhaps you are referring to the free ride my wife got, the one where she had to help her mom pay the rent for their dinky apartment at 16 because her non-contributing father (75 now and gobbling up gov't money for everything while having contributed next to nothing his whole life) lost the family home, inherited business and was essentially a total failure leaving a wife and two kids to fend for themselves. Noble baby boomer there for certain!
Talk about consumerism, how do you think we got to the point that most everything on American shelves is now made in China (with the manufacturing jobs gone as well)?
Before you go accusing me of taking from the many get your facts straight. Anything I did get for free came from my parents as they were able to and chose to do so. I likewise am doing so for my children. I don't owe you one damn cent and spit in your face at the expectation that I owe you something financially with regards to SS. If you are a Vet then you certainly are due something for that and I would not begrudge it but SS stolen from my check just because you are an over 65 American is a farce.
You continually avoid the point that you and your generation are benefiting from a system in a manner you were never intended to when it was established. You were the ones who elected to have fewer children so YOU could have more stuff! Then you turn around and say, "well sonny, there are fewer of you than there should be because we didn't do our part to support the system so now go get to work and support me!"
The system of SS (which you continually forget this is about, confusing it with every other gov't program out there) was specifically designed around contributions beginning at the age the average American lived to. It was specifically designed for a set ration of contributors to recipients.
Basic math tells you that if you have a population with an average lifespan above that number then consumption goes beyond the original plan. Basic math also says that if the preceding generation does not do its part with population growth to maintain the contributor to recipient ratio then again the system goes out of balance and breaks down.
It is your generation which is living longer and your generation which had less children than the one before it, don't blame me for that. I am not asking you to die earlier but how about raising the age eligible to collect SS to what it was designed to be, the average American lifespan? That should be 76-78. While we are at it the percentage expected from the contributors salary should in no way be increase because YOU decided to have fewer children and broke the system. The generation which did not provide a stable population base to support SS should have to deal with the consequences, not the generation left behind. Let your individual checks be based solely on the set percentage from the contributors without jacking up their SS taxes for your shortcomings in population planning.
None of this is new. You can easily find these arguments made back to the 1970s (probably earlier if you search hard enough). By the 70s it was clear the boomers were having fewer children than their parents, lifespans were increasing and the system was in danger. You have no problem sitting back and expecting me to pay for your failings. I on the other hand have known from my first day in the work force that the SS Tax coming out of my check would never be seen by me again.
There is NO WAY the system can continue so I have no SS contribution planned into my retirement. I, unlike you, am not arrogant and selfish enough to expect my children's generation to contribute to a broken SS system to support me.
chris in va
New member
I'll admit, I've supported RP financially a little. But he reminds me of a CPA trying to run for POTUS. Kinda whiny, not very charismatic and not really someone I can see needing to kick some a$$ if trouble erupts overseas.
Hey, maybe he'll use the $8mil at the last second to transform into The Hulk from Dr Bruce Banner. He's already got the eyebrows.
Hey, maybe he'll use the $8mil at the last second to transform into The Hulk from Dr Bruce Banner. He's already got the eyebrows.
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