What's Wrong With Ron Paul?

[PetreTG]

WILDALASKA SAYS:
I'm not the only one who thinks that way.

So you gonna ad hominem us all?

Decency and associating with Nazis are mutually exclusive.

L'chaim, bubbeleh

WildallmootbecausepaulisdoneAlaska ™

Oh you mean like being raised by and associating with Muslim extremists , not saluting the flag or respecting the national anthem and swearing your oath on the Koran ?

See I can play your game too ... and I'm just as right as you. The difference was , I wanted to be honest and not deceitful.

You really should start taking your own signatures advice or remove it for fear of looking hypocritical.

 

[PetreTG]

4SARGE says :

I read about Ron Paul who walked thru the crowds at the Gun Rights Conference where everyone had a gun. Shaking hands, signing autographs, taking picture. I suspect he didn't screen everybody prior since he's just an everyday guy and not a polished Mitt Romney who has everything staged around him. The Black photo? Sure it's a mistake. Did he know them? Probably not. I suspect the Dr. associates with a different clientele IE other Drs., perhaps economists, taxpayers, politicians. Not fringe group leaders.

That's exactly right 4Sarge. That's one of the special things about Paul I've tried to explain to his detractors here like Wild Alaska who seems bent on spreading propaganda on him.

I remember seeing a video of Paul before and after his appearance on Jay Leno and they remarked how he was the only political candidate that spent so much time with the people outside , both before and after the show just rubbing elbows , talking , signing autographs and taking pictures. They'd never seen anything like it.

They never could find any real dirt on Paul , so they marginalized him and spread the only dirt they could ... the "cleanest dirt" and most easily explained on any candidate of either party, but you still get guys like WA trying to spread it like it means something when in actuality they just fell for some BS.

 

[4sarge]

The Tourist: We often hear things like "it's broken" or "the 'boomers will have broken the bank." That's slang for "I'm not getting any! Boo hoo!"

Read the following common sense statement from this link:

http://www.ronpaul2008.com/issues/racism/
From The Site:
It is the federal government that most divides us by race, class, religion, and gender. Through its taxes, restrictive regulations, corporate subsidies, racial set-asides, and welfare programs, government plays far too large a role in determining who succeeds and who fails. Government "benevolence" crowds out genuine goodwill by institutionalizing group thinking, thus making each group suspicious that others are receiving more of the government loot. This leads to resentment and hostility among us.

Lighten up on the Tourist. I really don't see his drawing back his social security as the problem biggest problem we are facing. Following RP's steps toward downsizing the far flung military overseas and the Massive Federal Government, would leave plenty of money to support our retirees.

Again detractors, we will deal with the massive deficit. Do we want to be proactive? Or do we want it forced on us?

 

[The Tourist]

Lighten up on the Tourist.

I appreciate the sentiment. Thank you.

At the same time, do you notice how few people tell us openly what they plan to to?

How many have stated that they plan to cut an extra check now to the federal government to help with additional expenses? How many have affirmed that they will not cash, or send back, all of their Social Security money. I only counted one, a TFL member's Dad.

Actually, I enjoy the debate, but turn-about is fair play. If you disagree with the path chosen by 'boomers, that's fine, it's America.

But don't insult and run. If you're going to bust my chops, take a stand, tell us clearly what you are going to do with your share of the money, or STFU.

 

[publius42]

How many have affirmed that they will not cash, or send back, all of their Social Security money. I only counted one, a TFL member's Dad.

Actually, I said I would do like my friend's dad (who isn't geeky enough to turn on a computer). So that makes two of us.

You missed the important part of my empty promise: I fully expect to never be faced with the prospect of not cashing SS checks, because the system is going to be broke long before then. I'm planning for that, and hope and expect to be able to not cash checks which will not be coming anyway.

 

[ssr]

Let me say I am a RP supporter. Whatever someone has payed into SS is owed to them. It was taken all throughout their lives and promised to them in the future. It is not our fault that SS is a scam.

The people it screws are those who pay into it their whole lives, who are then given devalued dollars decades in the future. Payments that then do not keep up with the rising inflation. People would be better off if they had been allowed to keep their money throughout their lives and invest it in retirement accounts that they owned so that it could work and grow.

 

[Unregistered]

So, and yet again, are all of you RP supporters returning your Social Security checks, or are you just blowin' smoke?

I am not sure I understand why you think someone who was forced to pay into social security for 45+years would not want to get their money back at the end???

What is the rationale for your statement?

 

[STAGE 2]

I am not sure I understand why you think someone who was forced to pay into social security for 45+years would not want to get their money back at the end???

What is the rationale for your statement?

Ditto. Especially in light of the fact that SS was originally intended to be optional, what is unfair about giving people back their money that they paid into the system. If we are getting technical here, this isn't the governments money. It was a loan to the government that was to be paid back when its due. Seems to me that not paying back would essentially be theft.

 

[Unregistered]

Stage II is correct. I find it odd that the original writer of the comments I quoted has not responded.

Social Security and Medicare are NOT welfare or government handouts, assuming you paid into the system. It is simply you getting your money back from a required government savings program.

The Medicare drug prescription program is another story. The people receiving this benefit at present did not pay enough into Medicare to suddenly cover drug costs. So for them, the prescription drug program would be a government hand out.

 

[JuanCarlos]

Social Security and Medicare are NOT welfare or government handouts, assuming you paid into the system. It is simply you getting your money back from a required government savings program.

Out of curiosity, because I'm honestly not familiar with just how much SS pays, how long (approximately) does it take to recoup your contributions plus interest? Because I suspect that between Social Security and Medicare a lot of people are going to see more money out than they actually put in (including a reasonable interest rate), considering many will be for like twenty or thirty years.

 

[Wildalaska]

They never could find any real dirt on Paul , so they marginalized him and spread the only dirt they could ... the "cleanest dirt" and most easily explained on any candidate of either party, but you still get guys like WA trying to spread it like it means something when in actuality they just fell for some BS.

Seems a lot of folks are falling for it
http://positiveliberty.com/2008/01/more-of-ron-pauls-infamous-newspaper-writings.html


WildoiforgotifyoudontsupportpaulyouareignorantetcAlaska TM

 

[Musketeer]

It was a loan to the government that was to be paid back when its due. Seems to me that not paying back would essentially be theft.

Which will be the situation most likely faced by those who are under 40 today when it comes time to collect.

SS is in no way a loan. It is a contract where the current working generation helps to support a preceding generation who has reached a set age.

My problem with Tourist is his ignoring the facts of the situation and expectation that everyone in my generation should bow down and kiss his feet for everything he thinks he has done for us.

SS was a contract between his generation and the next. The terms of the contract were:

1. Start collecting at the current life expectancy.
2. Provide a future contributor base of suitable size to support the preceding one.

Sorry but the boomer generation has failed to meet BOTH of those requirements. Firstly they are collecting 10+ years before the current life expectancy. That puts a huge drain on the system well beyond anything ever anticipated. Secondly they had far fewer children than their parents generation. Even with immigration the ratio of contributors to recipients has fallen drastically and will only grow worse.

Tourist's response to his generation's failure to properly support or adjust SS, blame me for pointing out the problem.

 

[Unregistered]

Because I suspect that between Social Security and Medicare a lot of people are going to see more money out than they actually put in (including a reasonable interest rate), considering many will be for like twenty or thirty years.

That is correct. People can well take out more than they put in. But that is part of the agreement.

When Social Security was first started, the age at which you could collect benefits, and the age at which you were expected to die were fairly close. Now, people start receiving benefits, and may live for 20 or 30 years or longer. This is a problem.

The age at which you can start collecting benefits should be determined by your life expectancy at time of birth. For example, if a baby today is expected to live to be 78, he should not be able to collect benefits until probly around 70 or 72.

No one should ever be able to collect more than they put in, plus interest.

 

[cool hand luke 22:36]

Pigs at the entitlement trough are both blue and red. None of them want the gravy train to end

True, and Ron Paul is one of the biggest hogs going. He submitted 60 pages of pork barrel earmark requests last session.

When questioned on this Ron Paul can only whine: "...but everyone else is doing it...."

Yep, that there's the man who is gonna to "save us" alright.

John McCain submitted exactly NONE.

 

[Unregistered]

When questioned on this Ron Paul can only whine: "...but everyone else is doing it...."

Could you provide a reference to the words in quotation marks?

 

[Musketeer]

Could you provide a reference to the words in quotation marks?

I agree. It is easy to make such a claim but substantiating it may be harder. Kind of like the many other claims made about Paul.

 

[STAGE 2]

Which will be the situation most likely faced by those who are under 40 today when it comes time to collect.

SS is in no way a loan. It is a contract where the current working generation helps to support a preceding generation who has reached a set age.

I don't think so. Because the money I pay in now goes to those who are now collecting doesn't mean that this was part of the "contract." I pay in because I expect to recieve it when I'm elligible. What the government does with the money in the mean time is irrelevant.

This BS about not having enough kids or living too long has nothing to do with people getting their money back. Because the government planned poorly doesn't mean the people who have paid in and are now collecting shouldn't get their money back.

SS is a loan, regardless of how differently you try and frame it.

 

[PetreTG]

That anyone thinks that Ron Paul trying to get his districts share of tax dollars back in the form of earmarks is some kind of sin on par with porkbarrel waste spending is absolutely ridiculous.

 

[Musketeer]

This BS about not having enough kids or living too long has nothing to do with people getting their money back. Because the government planned poorly doesn't mean the people who have paid in and are now collecting shouldn't get their money back.

SS is WEALTH REDISTRIBUTION carried out at a later age. Any gov't program where they take your money then supposedly dole it out to you later in a different sum is by its definition wealth redistribution.

I don't really care what any of you expect when you pay into SS but the bottom line is it is an unstable system in its current form. The fact is the current generation starting to collect is far larger as a percentage than the one expected to pay, far more so than the system was ever planned to handle. Then there is the fact that people are getting at least 10 years of payment beyond what was ever designed into the system.

Of course none of this matters when we are talking about entitlements. Everyone here will cry out against welfare and other broken systems but when it comes to systems paying THEM money then we need to look at things differently. It doesn't matter that the system is unfair to all the following generations as long as the current pigs get their slop.

Oink Oink.

 

[STAGE 2]

SS is WEALTH REDISTRIBUTION carried out at a later age. Any gov't program where they take your money then supposedly dole it out to you later in a different sum is by its definition wealth redistribution.

Then, respectfully, you don't know what you're talking about. Taking money and then giving it back to you later in a different sum isn't wealth redistribution, its a loan. In order for this to be wealth redistribution, the people recieving the money couldn't have paid into the system. They did.

I don't really care what any of you expect when you pay into SS but the bottom line is it is an unstable system in its current form. The fact is the current generation starting to collect is far larger as a percentage than the one expected to pay, far more so than the system was ever planned to handle. Then there is the fact that people are getting at least 10 years of payment beyond what was ever designed into the system.

And even if what you are saying is correct, that has nothing to do with the valid claim of the people who have paid into the system. SS needs to be fixed. However to place this burden on the people that played by the rules is about the most unfair thing I can think of.

They were forced into it, abided by the rules, and now you're going to sit here and tell them that they don't have a right to their own money. I don't think so.

Of course none of this matters when we are talking about entitlements. Everyone here will cry out against welfare and other broken systems but when it comes to systems paying THEM money then we need to look at things differently. It doesn't matter that the system is unfair to all the following generations as long as the current pigs get their slop.

Once again, you have this whole thing bassackwards. There is NO ENTITLEMENT with SS. Unless you want to change the definition of the word it simply doesn't apply.

Furthermore its not about PAYING them money its about RETURNING money. There is a big difference between the two that you clearly don't get.

As someone who has more than 30 years before they are eligible for SS I am in the same boat as you when the system tanks. I fully agree the system need to be fixed. However, because you and I may not see any of the money we pay in does NOT make those who are collecting money grubbers, pigs, or anything else.

They simply are people who were forced to accept a crappy plan enacted by crappy people. They stuck with it, kept up their end, and are DESERVING of the money they are collecting.