well shucks

That it is (I gather you're referring to me) :)
It makes more sense once you acknowledge the fact that the Republican candidate is no more "conservative" than the Democrats.

The political landscape does not exist on a line, but a plane. Liberal/ conservative on one axis and libertarian/ authoritarian on the other.
A true "conservative" (as defined by Jefferson, Goldwater, and Reagan) is much more libertarian than today's Republicans.
Obama is the least statist of the group and also the least compromised. Therefore he gets my vote if it comes down to it.

Long-short, The Republican party must earn my vote. They have not done so.
 
I'd rather see some hyper-liberal idealist in the White House
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Your wish may come true. And when you witness the socialististic programs and new entitlements which come with said "hyper-liberal", I'm sure that you will be happier than a pig in mud.

Some estimates I've heard put Obama's "wish-list" spending at $900 billion over his first 4 years. Hope you can afford your choice.
 
PBP,
Ask me in PM so as not to derail the thread.
Best :)

Sasquatch,
I'm sure he will be no happier than I. Accepting the consequences is part and parcel of voting the lesser evil.
 
Long-short, The Republican party must earn my vote. They have not done so.
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Just curious GS, it sounds as if the Republican party has to earn your vote, but if they fall short earning it, you're perfectly willing to simply give it to the opposition.
Why would you not hold both parties to the same standard of earning it?:confused:
 
Your wish may come true. And when you witness the socialististic programs and new entitlements which come with said "hyper-liberal", I'm sure that you will be happier than a pig in mud.

Some estimates I've heard put Obama's "wish-list" spending at $900 billion over his first 4 years. Hope you can afford your choice.
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The President doesn't pass spending bills--Congress does. And if the Republicans don't find the ability to dig in their heels and tighten those purse strings with a guy like Obama in the White House, maybe they truly deserve to go the way of the Whigs.

"Afford"? How can we afford the current pace of spending, and the current deficit? Especially considering that the folks who racked it up didn't even have the decency to be honest about it and raise taxes to finance all those expenditures. They just racked up the national charge card, and my kids and grandkids will still be paying off that debt.

Don't even try to debate "affordability" here when comparing Dems and Reps. Fiscally speaking, the only thing worse than a tax-and-spender is a borrow-and-spender.
 
Why would you not hold both parties to the same standard of earning it?
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I do. :)

I'm not "giving my vote to the opposition" in protest of the Republicans' failure. If it comes down to it I simply find Obama the least offensive of the lot.
Should Hillary become the Dem nominee and the race is sufficiently close, you can expect me to vote for McCain.
 
Just curious GS, it sounds as if the Republican party has to earn your vote, but if they fall short earning it, you're perfectly willing to simply give it to the opposition.
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Why wouldn't they? If you find all three candidates equally offensive then the other side is not "the competition." If I am not on either side then I am equally against both of them and I neither win nor lose regardless of who wins. You actually have to be on one side or the other for there to be an "other side."

This "us against them no matter who we have to claim as us" mentality is really a negative thing.
 
First, McCain isn't really "my guy", but I think that I and the country would be better off with him in the White House than with Obama/Hillary -- if for no other reason than that conservative interests will receive a better hearing from McCain. It is the nature of politics that McCain must be to some extent receptive to, and influenced by, conservative interests. Obama/Hillary will be untouchable by such interests.

And I consider the arguments advanced here by proclaimed conservatives for voting (or not voting) in a manner that will help Obama (or Hillary, as the case may be) become President to be specious in the extreme. I think that the beliefs expressed that taking such actions will have long term beneficial effects for conservative interests to be unrealistic and misguided.
 
The President doesn't pass spending bills--Congress does.
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So, with Obama in the White House, and a Democratic Senate and a Democratic House, nothing he wants is going to pass? Simply incredible logic.....

"Afford"? How can we afford the current pace of spending, and the current deficit?
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WE CAN'T!!! And yet, somehow, you are more than willing to enable a higher "pace of spending" by putting a Democrat in the White House. Simply incredible logic......


Fiscally speaking, the only thing worse than a tax-and-spender is a borrow-and-spender.
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With Obama you get both. Since you seem to be so worried about the debt passed on to your kids and grandkids you might want to consider this fact.
 
Don,
What PBP said.
I feel about the same about these 3 as I suspect you would about picking between Kennedy, Feinstein, or Pelosi.

They're *all* my "opposition".
 
Why wouldn't they? If you find all three candidates equally offensive then the other side is not "the competition." If I am not on either side then I am equally against both of them and I neither win nor lose regardless of who wins. You actually have to be on one side or the other for there to be an "other side."

This "us against them no matter who we have to claim as us" mentality is really a negative thing.
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What the hell did you say?
From what I gathered, it doesn't matter who you vote for since you don't like anyone running. If so, that has nothing to do with the question I asked GS.
 
Don,
What PBP said.
I feel about the same about these 3 as I suspect you would about picking between Kennedy, Feinstein, or Pelosi.

They're *all* my "opposition".
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Then none of them should earn your vote.
 
When both candidates are ready and willing to rack up the national debt some more, I refuse to get excited about my choices. The difference between McCain and Obama is a trillion or two in extra debt, but their predecessor has already racked up eight trillion during his tenure, so for all practical purposes, there is no difference here--they're just varying degrees of fiscal irresponsibility. One will take a hundred years to pay off, the other a hundred and twenty years, so any way you swing that cat, my kids and grandkids are going to get socked in the head with it.

(And to play Devil's Advocate here--Obama's proposed programs would at least rack up that debt to spend money mostly domestically, instead of chucking half a trillion per year down a bottomless sand pit in the Middle East. If I have to pay taxes and shoulder that kind of debt, I'd just as soon have them spend that borrowed and stolen money on schools and medical care for Americans, not Iraqis.)

Have you looked up how much the fed.gov has grown in the last eight years? Have you seen the numbers on the increase in government discretionary spending? Dubya has managed to outspend every tax-and-spend Democrat who preceded him, by a wide margin. How can you honestly say at this point that a Republican president would mean more fiscal responsibility than a Democrat one?
 
Then none of them should earn your vote.
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None of them do. And none of them will get it unless the situation calls for me to pick one over the other.
No sense in fussing about it. You want to be assured of my vote then you'd better provide a candidate I want to vote for. These days more than ever, "conservative" does not automatically mean "Republican".
 
Why We Fight

There is a movie out there called "Why We Fight" It won a 'Grand Jury Award' at the "Sundance Film Festival" I just watched it yesterday, and it had John McCain featured in it several times. He made points that the military-industrial complex is border line corrupt, and I gotta tell you, the man has my respect. I believe that if elected, he will try his best to take care of our country with honor. I wanted Ron Paul to win, he made some good points, and I hope people took heed.

I am a proud independent voter and I despise hard liners from both parties. I will never let a party tell me how to think or how to vote, I think for myself to the best of my ability and strongly encourage everyone I meet to do the same thing.

I for one will be throwing my vote in for John McCain.

It could be interesting if Dr. Paul was McCain's pick for VP. I'd probably get off my rear and go hold up a sign for them then! That's saying quite a bit too because I am not a political activist at all. The most I EVER do is run my mouth and vote.
 
medical care for Americans
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Make that "free" medical care for Americans. Unfunded socialized medicine certainly won't rack up any debt...............nosireeeee.

That just might be the boondoggle of all time.....including Social Security and Medicare.
 
In my humble opinion, playing games with the election process and being "cutesie" by voting for somebody as left-wing/socialist as both of the Democratic candidates is a recipe for disaster.

The appointments to the US Supreme Court and Federal benches over the next 8 years will affect our country for decades...maybe longer.

Neither Obama nor Klinton has ever done anything worth mentioning. Obama voted "present" 132 times in the IL legislature, for fear of making decisions. Klinton is one of the coarsest, most corrupt individuals on the national political scene in my long lifetime.

I'm not nuts about McCain. It would be IMPOSSIBLE for McCain to cause as much damage to our country than either of the Democrats.
 
I just get tired of this whole "if you ain't voten for us...then yer voten agin us" mentality. I keep seeing the idea pop up in threads that if you do not vote for and support McCain you are somehow voting for and supporting Hillary/Obama.

That is not the case. It is completely possible to not support either side.

When I say I just cannot vote for McCain they say "then I guess you would rather see Hillary as President." That is not the case. I find both equally repugnant.
 
And let us not forget, for some states it doesn't matter whom a few people vote for. For example, my state (California) will definitely go to the Dems. So, even if I could force myself to vote for McCain, it just doesn't matter.
 
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