Real ID coming soon

Musings...countermeasures and such.

Last post I jokingly asked about making a shielded wallet, to defend against passive targeting (aka "skimming"). Well, I'm not the only crazy one, its out there! Link: http://www.emvelope.com/

Next, how about a spoofing/jamming device that puts out millions of random rfid hits when queried by an passive receiver/antenna? I'm just sayin...
 
Hacker conferences have repeatedly shown that they can read RFIDs from up to about 70 feet, despite the assurances of "needs to be within inches". All it takes is more power on the transciever to interrogate it and get a return. The chip is passive. The interrogation is active. A radio signal hits the chip, and that bit of power energizes it weakly, enough to return its data bit to the reciever.

The RFID passport originally had all the info completely in the clear. I don't know if that's been changed now, or what. At the time, even several tech magazines were recommending patting the RFID with a hammer to destroy it, since it was so insecure and the passport would still be accepted without it.
 
Pat H offered:

The link I posted is one of the most reputable on the internet.

More is better, particularly for the Google impaired.

http://blog.wired.com/27bstroke6/200...a-governo.html

http://www.montanasnewsstation.com/G...&nav=menu227_7

http://www.jacksonholestartrib.com/a...ce000aabc7.txt

http://kennebecjournal.mainetoday.co...l/4649267.html

http://tinyurl.com/2lj423

http://www.news.com/8301-10784_3-984...tag=nefd.pulse


__________________
Pat, USAR - retired
Ron Paul 2008
The love of glory can only create a great hero; the contempt of it creates great man. Talleyrand

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Unfortunately, the cartoon image of this America Card didn't copy. Interested readers can however see it in Pat's original post, post # 7that is. As to other aspects, of course, it's all for your own protection. How could anyone possibly be so silly as to not realize that? It begins to appear that possibly this DHS has become a major threat to the individual freedom of Americans.
 
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I'm with playboypenguin on this one. Real ID now. how long before the checkpoints start? Its the 21st century version of "papers please! nobody passes this point without papers!"

This whole thing is a little too close to yellow stars and pink triangles for me. I dont suport this and I'm appalled by anyone who is.

Even national security shouldnt over-ride personal freedom.
 
I was misinformed when I wrote that we are waiting for the regs to be published. What is an interesting coincidence, is that the DHS published the final regs on Jan 11th... The same day everyone else was talking about the 20 amici briefs filed for D.C.
Anybody want to have a go at these?
 
You have to love when supposed small-government types clamor for the REAL ID.

They're glad to give away 10 bucks worth of my freedom to get 10 cents worth of their safety.

Then with every new assault on our freedom, they say, well that was no big deal, can I have another please, I don't feel safe enough yet.

So what if the 9/11 commission recommended Real ID. That's nice, the Warren Commission recommended gun control.

"Dear America, this happened because you have too much freedom. Enclosed is a blank check, kindly sign here and we'll take care of you. Oh and ha ha, you can't fire any of us for 9/11." You believe whatever the political hacks tell you, long as they put it in a big thick book with an official seal on it.

The sales pitch for Real ID reminds me too much of the sales pitch for gun control.
 
Page 12

"DHS wants to make clear that effective May 11,2008, individuals from States who have not obtained an extension of the compliance date from DHS, or who have not submitted a Compliance Package to DHS under the deadlines provided in this final rule, will not be able to use their State-issued license for federal official purposes, including for identification to board a commercial airplane."

"Effective December 1,2017, anyone seeking to use a State-issued driver's license or identification card for official purpose, including boarding of commercial aircraft, must have a REAL ID-compliant card."

"On March 1, 2007, the Secretary of Homeland Security announced, in conjunction with the release of the NPRM, that the Department would grant extensions to all States requesting extensions, not to exceed December 3 1,2009. In the NPRM, DHS proposed that States that would not be able to comply by May 11,2008, should request an extension of the
compliance date no later than February 10,2008, and the proposal encouraged States to submit requests for extension as early as October 1,2007."
 
Anybody want to have a go at these?
Click to expand...
I've downloaded them and will try to wade through them over the next week.

It'd be a good idea if several people, with a good grounding in Constitutional law, were to look at them as well.
 
You have to love when supposed small-government types clamor for the REAL ID.
Click to expand...
I am not that surprised at all. Unfortunately, certain elements the right wing have become havens for racist and separatists. The current administration realizes this and is exploiting this sad fact to push something that appeals to this group but I fear is really for far more sinister motives.

I do not believe the current administration (congress included) are actually believing that this will help with security or immigration nor do I think they are acting based on bigotry. They are simply exploiting this factions prejudices to push something that will be very helpful to them in the future but would simply be seem as appalling if it wasn't shrouded in patriotism and other more devious implications that appeal to people's base hatreds and fears.
 
Antipitas writes:

I was misinformed when I wrote that we are waiting for the regs to be published. What is an interesting coincidence, is that the DHS published the final regs on Jan 11th... The same day everyone else was talking about the 20 amici briefs filed for D.C.
Final Rule, Part 1 (PDF, 120 pages - 4.2 MB)
Final Rule, Part 2 (PDF, 164 pages – 5.6 MB)
Anybody want to have a go at these?

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Two quick questions re this.

1. Do the people who write these rules get paid by the word? Interested parties might, respecting the volume of double-talk, have a look at the following book. Gotcha Capitalism by Bob Sullivan.
2.Brings back to one's mind references to those late Friday Press Releases sometimes mentioned.

44capnball writes:

You have to love when supposed small-government types clamor for the REAL ID.

They're glad to give away 10 bucks worth of my freedom to get 10 cents worth of their safety.

Then with every new assault on our freedom, they say, well that was no big deal, can I have another please, I don't feel safe enough yet.

So what if the 9/11 commission recommended Real ID. That's nice, the Warren Commission recommended gun control.

"Dear America, this happened because you have too much freedom. Enclosed is a blank check, kindly sign here and we'll take care of you. Oh and ha ha, you can't fire any of us for 9/11." You believe whatever the political hacks tell you, long as they put it in a big thick book with an official seal on it.

The sales pitch for Real ID reminds me too much of the sales pitch for gun control.

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Anyone remember Ben Franklin's circa 1750 offering to the effect that People who surrender essential liberties to obtain temporary security will have neither liberty nor security. Then there was earlier, Send not to know for whom the bell tolls, it tolls for thee, this by John Donne.
 
Drivers licenses were passed under interstate commerce for commercial vehicles only. It was voluntary at first for non commercial vehicles. Then after they told the lie long enough, we all believe that we have to have them for private travel.

So the answer to your question is yes, pretty much. The right to free travel is in the Constitution but since cars hadn't been invented yet, they forgot to put that in there...
 
I read through the documents because as a long time ham radio operator I was interested in any technical information on the RFID. The notion that we could be pinpointed is far fetched. Watching too much "24". You have to have a power source to transmit. Maybe they will furnish a rechargeble battery with it and you can charge your ID card at night.

Anyhow, you younger guys can worry about it first.

DHS has determined that, based on TSA incident report data it has reviewed, that
a logical dividing point for age-based enrollment would be fifty years of age. As a result,
the rule requires the States to focus first on individuals born after December 1, 1964,
when issuing REAL ID cards. These individuals will be under fifty years of age on
December 1,2014. DHS has determined that deferring the REAL ID enrollment
requirements until December 1,20 17, for those individuals born on or before December
1, 1964, will relieve the States of some operational burden associated with re-licensing
their license holders. This provision will enable States to extend the enrollment of this
lower-risk population until December 1,20 17.
Click to expand...
 
Zerojunk, you perhaps have never heard of triangulation. I don't think you've read how RFIDs operate, either.

An RFID is a passive device that does not contain a power source. A nearby transciever sends out a pulse at a certain frequency. The RFID is weakly energized by this, like an ancient crystal radio, and returns its data bit with that energy. The transciever picks that up.

And yes, two or more trancievers could be used to locate one in a room by simple triangulation of the distance delay from the returned signal. But that's not really relevant to the major objection to RealID, which has nothing to do with RFID, only databases.
Anyhow, you younger guys can worry about it first.
Click to expand...

FUDDS can exist for things besides firearms. They can exist for this, too. "It won't affect me because I'm too old". Don't be a FUDD.
 
you perhaps have never heard of triangulation.
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If you want to start on a condescending note you should be prepared.
Passive RFID is limited to a few meters. So, if you have agents on three sides of your car they can find you in it.

Despite all the James Bond movies you watch the laws of physics cannot be legislated around. And, you are only limited by your imagination in ways to disable it.
 
If you want to start on a condescending note you should be prepared.
Passive RFID is limited to a few meters. So, if you have agents on three sides of your car they can find you in it.
Click to expand...
I am not sure he was trying to be condescending but even though the limits now for passive RFID seem to be a few meters (at least in technologies available to the public) active RFID could very easily be placed into use with a very minute power source for the card. There has even been speculation that it could be made to last a few years in an object no bigger than a credit card.

Even if that is far off you do not seem to be thinking outside the box or tactically. You would not have to read a persons movements from afar. You could simply start placing reading stations at strategic points that would read every card that passed within range and then send that information to a central data base that could then plot your movements. Sometimes a few million little eyes on the ground are better than one big eye in the sky.
 
PBP, a reasonable reponse. The frequencies that would have to be used where a credit card sized antenna would radiate anything at all are in a range that has terrible propagation. 1/2 wave being 468 divided by the frequency in megahertz. Same reason an AM broadcast station at 1400 KHZ may work on 5000 watts and the FM station at 108 MHZ is running 100,000,000 watts. And you are looking at something that will by nature have to be much higher frequency than that. Same reason your neighbor can't hear your 900 MHZ portable phone .If it was at 3 MHZ at the same power level you could talk to everybody in town, but you would need an antenna 140 feet long.

A credit card size transmitter has problems that cannot be overcome as a long range transmitting device, passive or not. Receiving stations would have to be on top of each other. Plus, 30 seconds in a microwave or a layer or two of tin foil would disable it.

The state of the art size of a cell phone is a good indicator of what is possible.
 
Zerojunk

Limitations are only limitations until they are overcome. Look at things that we have now that would have been considered unlikely twenty years ago.

That aside, the main point of my post was to point out that these limitations do not need to be overcome. There are ways to make it work within the current limitations.
 
If you want to start on a condescending note you should be prepared.
Passive RFID is limited to a few meters. So, if you have agents on three sides of your car they can find you in it.
Click to expand...

Incorrect. They've gotten a return past 70 feet at hacking conventions just to show they can.

The secret is...(gasp) using a completely nonstandard high-powered transciever that they made themselves.
Passive RFID is limited to a few meters if you use a legal, commercially available reader, yes. But THEY BROKE THE RULES!

As if bad guys wouldn't do the same.

You could simply start placing reading stations at strategic points that would read every card that passed within range and then send that information to a central data base that could then plot your movements.
Click to expand...

That's already well past the planning stage, and marketers are drooling about it. Articles have been featured in Advertising Age. The way it would work in product RFIDs would be, basically:

1. Items like shirts have a grain-of-sand RFID in the hem, a phone or other device has one built in in the plastic casing.
2. The RFID's unique ID is linked to the purchaser's credit card information at the point of sale.
3. Readers are placed in mall entry arches, kiosks, airports, and other locales.
4. Readers bounce a signal off the passive RFIDs.
5. Reader logs movement of that particular model or style of clothing for sale to marketing groups.
6. Nearby video and other displays may subtly change their next advertisement to appeal to the person wearing that shirt or carrying that phone.

And, of course, if it's linked to the credit card, you have a unique identifier that can track you anywhere, and that info could be taken for anything for a divorce proceeding to a civil or legal action, if they wanted to.
 
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