Real ID coming soon
- Thread starter Pat H
- Start date
Playboypenguin
Moderator
I do not agree with national ID cards at all.
There are reasons that state and federal laws exist that preclude all information on an individual be able to be consolidated in one area.
The current administration is simply manipulating people's prejudices and fears to make this seem like a good idea.
There is way too much potential for abuse.
Now it will just be to identify nationality, but later maybe party affiliation (much like in Nazi Germany), religion (again as in Nazi Germany), sexual preference, etc.
No one on here can call me a conspiracy theorist or a delusional paranoid, at least not with any credibility but I am a realist and know that no one in power should be able to access every bit of information on anyone they see as a threat from one single source and no one should be required to declare such things.
There are reasons that state and federal laws exist that preclude all information on an individual be able to be consolidated in one area.
The current administration is simply manipulating people's prejudices and fears to make this seem like a good idea.
There is way too much potential for abuse.
Now it will just be to identify nationality, but later maybe party affiliation (much like in Nazi Germany), religion (again as in Nazi Germany), sexual preference, etc.
No one on here can call me a conspiracy theorist or a delusional paranoid, at least not with any credibility but I am a realist and know that no one in power should be able to access every bit of information on anyone they see as a threat from one single source and no one should be required to declare such things.
And perhaps eventually information such as whether you own guns (and what models/types) as well as if you have a CCW. One stroke of the pen by Congress and the production of a national/real ID card could be mandatory to buy any firearm. Voila! instant national database on gun ownership and gun owners.
Sexual preference, party affiliation, and gun ownership information is not information collected by the government for the new ID. Nazi Germany? Protecting national security does not mean that we live in Nazi Germany. The administration is not just trying to scare everyone; the 911 commission recommended the ID, and that recommendation is being implemented.
I know, I know, I'm a "sheeple" and I'm wearing a tin foil hat. But I'm not the one coming up with all of these wild claims about the Real ID, either.
I know, I know, I'm a "sheeple" and I'm wearing a tin foil hat. But I'm not the one coming up with all of these wild claims about the Real ID, either.
Regardless of what ill use the info might be put to, just think of the hassle if there's a mistake.
Ever have to deal with DMV about your driver's license?
Right. Now move DMV to a federal office far away from you. Create a backlog of tens of thousands of problems per day. Staff the place with uncaring stagnant-job bureaucrats who can't be fired, who could care less if they make a mistake. Require that any issues or problems be submitted in the form of a physical letter, no email, no fax, no phone call.
Oh, and do keep in mind that not only might the workers make a mistake, but Bad Guys will be offering wads of cash to dead-end functionaries to give them a "real" fake RealID, just as happens with passports now worldwide.
Suppose there's a mistake on your RealID. Six months go by, you send letters, you get a form letter for the wrong problem. No resolution. In the meantime, you can't fly, you can't get a loan, you can't enter a national park.
Or, worse, someone borrowed your RealID information (via the bribes above) and did something really bad. On your next traffic stop, you're out of the blue suddenly tazered, thrown in a police car and hauled off for federal questioning, because the order came down from the office above the office above that office in that other office that your identity data matched someone who did something really bad with smuggling/explosives/etc.
Good luck getting cleared. Good luck getting errors fixed.
THAT is why we object to RealID. Bigger government, bigger incompetence, and YOU would suffer. These are the SAME agencies that have barred babies from flights because they're on the no-fly list...and you want to give them absolute control over your freedom to move around, to do basically anything? You're insane, if so. Absolutely insane.
I keep hearing these same three asinine talking points from excusers:
1. If you don't have anything to hide, what do you care? (the classic line of the fascism-minded)
2. They have access to all this information anyway. (not centralized and more prone to error or theft!)
3. Why do you hate terrorists? (which is just ridiculous)
And I'm sick of them. If that's how you want to live, well, China graciously welcomes American businesspeople.
Ever have to deal with DMV about your driver's license?
Right. Now move DMV to a federal office far away from you. Create a backlog of tens of thousands of problems per day. Staff the place with uncaring stagnant-job bureaucrats who can't be fired, who could care less if they make a mistake. Require that any issues or problems be submitted in the form of a physical letter, no email, no fax, no phone call.
Oh, and do keep in mind that not only might the workers make a mistake, but Bad Guys will be offering wads of cash to dead-end functionaries to give them a "real" fake RealID, just as happens with passports now worldwide.
Suppose there's a mistake on your RealID. Six months go by, you send letters, you get a form letter for the wrong problem. No resolution. In the meantime, you can't fly, you can't get a loan, you can't enter a national park.
Or, worse, someone borrowed your RealID information (via the bribes above) and did something really bad. On your next traffic stop, you're out of the blue suddenly tazered, thrown in a police car and hauled off for federal questioning, because the order came down from the office above the office above that office in that other office that your identity data matched someone who did something really bad with smuggling/explosives/etc.
Good luck getting cleared. Good luck getting errors fixed.
THAT is why we object to RealID. Bigger government, bigger incompetence, and YOU would suffer. These are the SAME agencies that have barred babies from flights because they're on the no-fly list...and you want to give them absolute control over your freedom to move around, to do basically anything? You're insane, if so. Absolutely insane.
I keep hearing these same three asinine talking points from excusers:
1. If you don't have anything to hide, what do you care? (the classic line of the fascism-minded)
2. They have access to all this information anyway. (not centralized and more prone to error or theft!)
3. Why do you hate terrorists? (which is just ridiculous)
And I'm sick of them. If that's how you want to live, well, China graciously welcomes American businesspeople.
Unregistered
Moderator
Terrorist attacks disrupt interstate commerce.
And that's all it takes to become a federal issue.
That said, I'd just as soon not have one, and certainly don't think it will solve our problem. But I can't get real fired up about one way or the other.
Not everyone who doesn't disagree with the Real ID is "insane." Protecting national security is not "insane", either. The 9/11 Commission recommended the Real ID for valid, non-insane reasons.
Don't loan your RealID to anyone else, and you'll be fine. Promptly report the loss or theft of the same. And make sure and yell, "don't taze me, bro" while you're resisting arrest.
Don't loan your RealID to anyone else, and you'll be fine. Promptly report the loss or theft of the same. And make sure and yell, "don't taze me, bro" while you're resisting arrest.
Actually protecting national security is worthy.
This is a thumb-sucking security blanket of errors that would do nothing but ruin the lives of everyday citizens, while doing nothing to stop determined terrorists. This is precisely like saying that banning all guns would do anything to keep them out of the hands of criminals. We know it won't.
I'm sick of people clinging to thumbsucking "solutions" offered to them by an ever-larger and ever-more bloated nanny state.
Close the borders, kill the terrorists, PROFILE and ignore the PC crowd, but don't foist this ridiculous mess of error-prone paperwork on innocent people, since it will do nothing but screw up people's lives.
I actually hope that the states that voted FOR RealID go ahead and implement it quickly. We who voted to ban it will sit back and enjoy some schadenfreude and popcorn as the pro-nanny-state people experience bureaucratic errors from hell and start crying about it. Too late.
This is a thumb-sucking security blanket of errors that would do nothing but ruin the lives of everyday citizens, while doing nothing to stop determined terrorists. This is precisely like saying that banning all guns would do anything to keep them out of the hands of criminals. We know it won't.
I'm sick of people clinging to thumbsucking "solutions" offered to them by an ever-larger and ever-more bloated nanny state.
Close the borders, kill the terrorists, PROFILE and ignore the PC crowd, but don't foist this ridiculous mess of error-prone paperwork on innocent people, since it will do nothing but screw up people's lives.
I actually hope that the states that voted FOR RealID go ahead and implement it quickly. We who voted to ban it will sit back and enjoy some schadenfreude and popcorn as the pro-nanny-state people experience bureaucratic errors from hell and start crying about it. Too late.
Fremmer, a lot of identity theft comes from within the offices themselves. The people who process the paperwork, and occasionally lose laptops.
This is what I'm saying. You can keep your ID in a vault, and it can still be stolen by or from the people who issued it.
And it WILL happen. You think everyone who makes $35k a year in a dingy office with no chance of advancement is going to resist a smuggler/terrorist/coyote waving a stack of hundreds at them? Or, as I said, someone can and will make a mistake, just like they have with the no-fly list. It's the same offices that did that that would handle RealID. Did you not realize that? Same software, probably, too!
It happens every day, hundreds of times every day, both here and abroad. People get perfectly legitimate US Visas that will pass every test...but that are someone else's information. Which means someone in an office is doing it. Shocking.
So, go ahead. And the first time you get denied for a flight, and are told there's several months wait on claims for record error correction, I'll just point and chuckle. Because you're...."secure". And meanwhile, the determined terrorist's handlers made sure to pay off the right people, so they're able to board the flight. There will be no reason to check twice, because the data was all in one database! One...single...easy to change database.
"Secure".
This is what I'm saying. You can keep your ID in a vault, and it can still be stolen by or from the people who issued it.
And it WILL happen. You think everyone who makes $35k a year in a dingy office with no chance of advancement is going to resist a smuggler/terrorist/coyote waving a stack of hundreds at them? Or, as I said, someone can and will make a mistake, just like they have with the no-fly list. It's the same offices that did that that would handle RealID. Did you not realize that? Same software, probably, too!
It happens every day, hundreds of times every day, both here and abroad. People get perfectly legitimate US Visas that will pass every test...but that are someone else's information. Which means someone in an office is doing it. Shocking.
So, go ahead. And the first time you get denied for a flight, and are told there's several months wait on claims for record error correction, I'll just point and chuckle. Because you're...."secure". And meanwhile, the determined terrorist's handlers made sure to pay off the right people, so they're able to board the flight. There will be no reason to check twice, because the data was all in one database! One...single...easy to change database.
"Secure".
Playboypenguin
Moderator
They are not wild claims..it is called learning from history.
Educate yourself to the series of events that lead to the take over of the free democray of Germany in the 30's and then come back and make that statement again.
One of the first steps was the centralization of information on the citizens. Then they could determine who were "true Germans" and who were not.
Two words that speak volumes.
Jermtheory
New member
i cant imagine how anyone can defend this nonsense.
if its effective in its stated goals,than it also infringes on our privacy.
if its not effective,than it serves no purpose other than wasting more tax payer money(alot of it).
cant have it both ways.
more comforting(to "sheeple") BS,in the name of "national security".
if its effective in its stated goals,than it also infringes on our privacy.
if its not effective,than it serves no purpose other than wasting more tax payer money(alot of it).
cant have it both ways.
more comforting(to "sheeple") BS,in the name of "national security".
I think a lot of you are missing the point. Real ID is not a national ID card. It is still a state driver's license. The ONLY thing the feds are doing is requesting the states bring it up to current state of the art for security features. The states aren't registering anything with the feds. It's just a DL brought up to current standards - THAT'S ALL! If it was in effect before 9/11 then the hijackers couldn't have obtained 30+ driver's licenses! You have to show a "picture ID" to do anything anyhow, let's just make it more secure and unavailable to ILLEGAL ALIENS!
I think there is an effort for some to just not understand. Guys - this isn't Nazi Germany (yet- Hillary really scares me and Obama is just naive and doesn't really have a clue).
I think there is an effort for some to just not understand. Guys - this isn't Nazi Germany (yet- Hillary really scares me and Obama is just naive and doesn't really have a clue).
Playboypenguin
Moderator
That is far from all it does. It places all the information into an uniformed and linkable database, essentially placing al information in one place and making it easily obtainable. It is also a very good first step for turning DL's into national cards, which is a good step towards making presentation of said card a necessity for voting, driving, walking the streets, etc.
And neither was germany in 1930...look at it ten years later.
The bad thing about a democracy is if you get lazy or foolish for a very short time it can easily disappear. Especially when you start trusting your govt to do the right thing without oversight.
If two ends of the social spectrum like Pat H and myself can both agree that this is a bad thing that should tell you something.
