Pick your candidate 08!
- Thread starter BrassSlinger
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My fundamental problem with Paul was his lack of leadership ability. That should be a foundational qualifier for President IMHO. He has a long Congressional career and has a marked lack of ability to influence others to his vision. Leadership is influence after all and he has had 20 years to influence the House and has not. His lack of leadership in his campaign has glaring. A marked lack of organization that resulted in embarrassing behavior by his supporters and he further exacerbated the damage by condoning the behavior.
I initially liked Paul. His supporters I found repellent and therefore didn't want to claim to be one. As time passed and I looked more into his Congressional performance I came to the conclusion I described above. I was torn between appreciating his platform and realizing he didn't have the ability to make the big changes he was proposing. The positions of Stormfront sealed it for me. If a vile and demented group like that wanted him so badly I found that to be a big red flag. Even if Storefront and those advancing their tactics in this election were not a factor I could see he lacked to ability to manifest his Constitutional Revolution even if elected. He had made no congressional foundation during his extensive time there to get his plans through Congress. I also found it very odd that he could be in the House that long without forming any such foundations. Very poor leadership.
I would like to see an effective leader with Paul's stated Constitutional conviction as a President. Know any? Until that person emerges we are dealt the cards that Primary voters have dealt. I would have enjoyed supporting Thompson's Federalist platform but he, like Paul, couldn't influence enough people to his vision. They are both quite old, as is McCain, so age doesn't factor.
Like the results or not, McCain is able to influence. He lacks executive experience in government and his Commands in the Navy were a very long time ago. Paul and the 2 Democrats have even less executive experience. McCain does have leadership ability and right now he is the clear choice IMHO. Not the perfect choice but he is facing the worst of the Democrats so it works out for him. He would have had a very hard time with a Democrat candidate that was actually qualified for the job such as Richardson. I would have voted for Richardson in a heartbeat. Luckily he wasn't 'celebrity' enough to win the nomination. He was infinitely more qualified then any of the others. Maybe he can work out, get 'ripped' and have an affair to firm up his Dem cred. Or come up with a new horrible damger about to befall mankind. Then it's all Bill in 2012!!
I initially liked Paul. His supporters I found repellent and therefore didn't want to claim to be one. As time passed and I looked more into his Congressional performance I came to the conclusion I described above. I was torn between appreciating his platform and realizing he didn't have the ability to make the big changes he was proposing. The positions of Stormfront sealed it for me. If a vile and demented group like that wanted him so badly I found that to be a big red flag. Even if Storefront and those advancing their tactics in this election were not a factor I could see he lacked to ability to manifest his Constitutional Revolution even if elected. He had made no congressional foundation during his extensive time there to get his plans through Congress. I also found it very odd that he could be in the House that long without forming any such foundations. Very poor leadership.
I would like to see an effective leader with Paul's stated Constitutional conviction as a President. Know any? Until that person emerges we are dealt the cards that Primary voters have dealt. I would have enjoyed supporting Thompson's Federalist platform but he, like Paul, couldn't influence enough people to his vision. They are both quite old, as is McCain, so age doesn't factor.
Like the results or not, McCain is able to influence. He lacks executive experience in government and his Commands in the Navy were a very long time ago. Paul and the 2 Democrats have even less executive experience. McCain does have leadership ability and right now he is the clear choice IMHO. Not the perfect choice but he is facing the worst of the Democrats so it works out for him. He would have had a very hard time with a Democrat candidate that was actually qualified for the job such as Richardson. I would have voted for Richardson in a heartbeat. Luckily he wasn't 'celebrity' enough to win the nomination. He was infinitely more qualified then any of the others. Maybe he can work out, get 'ripped' and have an affair to firm up his Dem cred. Or come up with a new horrible damger about to befall mankind. Then it's all Bill in 2012!!
Obama = bounce from Rev. Wright?
Anyone catch Reverend Wright speaking at the NAACP meeting last night? I found him to be engaging in challenging "accepted wisdom". Quite a contrast from the dumbed-down soundbite that's made him recently (in?)famous. As wingman noted, much of that amounted to grade-school name calling.
I was impressed. Rev. Wright has more communication talent, wit, intelligence, and education in many fields, than all his detractors combined. If he gets wider exposure, beyond the unfair soundbites, he could turn out to be a huge asset for the Obama campaign. Thoughts?
Anyone catch Reverend Wright speaking at the NAACP meeting last night? I found him to be engaging in challenging "accepted wisdom". Quite a contrast from the dumbed-down soundbite that's made him recently (in?)famous. As wingman noted, much of that amounted to grade-school name calling.
I was impressed. Rev. Wright has more communication talent, wit, intelligence, and education in many fields, than all his detractors combined. If he gets wider exposure, beyond the unfair soundbites, he could turn out to be a huge asset for the Obama campaign. Thoughts?
Unregistered
Moderator
Personally, I think you are crazy. Wright is a racist.
"To say a vote for Paul is a vote for Obama means that the vote is important."
Every single vote is important in an election because it could be the deciding vote. That's why we have elections, because polls aren't reliable.
OTOH, a single vote out of many million is satistically insignificant according to every statistics class I took.
John
Every single vote is important in an election because it could be the deciding vote. That's why we have elections, because polls aren't reliable.
OTOH, a single vote out of many million is satistically insignificant according to every statistics class I took.
John
"Anyone catch Reverend Wright speaking at the NAACP meeting last night?"
What a BS artist. He is so out of touch with reality - his own reality as recorded for posterity - that I don't know what to say. Maybe he needs to go back to the church, buy a few of his speeches at their store and give them a listen.
John
What a BS artist. He is so out of touch with reality - his own reality as recorded for posterity - that I don't know what to say. Maybe he needs to go back to the church, buy a few of his speeches at their store and give them a listen.
John
unregistered, did you even see the NAACP speech?
The video has been posted on youtube: http://video.google.com/videosearch?hl=en&um=1&q=wright naacp&sa=N&tab=nv
Unfortunately, its broken into 10 minute segments; maybe a single video link will be put up eventually.
So far, two folks have derided Rev. Wright, but offered nothing of substance to further a discussion. Not unlike the soundbite incident. Can we get past that?
Others are invited to watch the speech before showing their a$$e$, OK?
The video has been posted on youtube: http://video.google.com/videosearch?hl=en&um=1&q=wright naacp&sa=N&tab=nv
Unfortunately, its broken into 10 minute segments; maybe a single video link will be put up eventually.
So far, two folks have derided Rev. Wright, but offered nothing of substance to further a discussion. Not unlike the soundbite incident. Can we get past that?
Others are invited to watch the speech before showing their a$$e$, OK?Unregistered
Moderator
I saw the speech in its entirety last night. I thought he pretty much mocked white people the whole time. You can support him and Obama if you want. I don't care. But he is a racist.
applesanity
New member
People who voted for Ross Perot in '92 ended up with Bill Clinton.
People who voted for Ralph Nader in '00 ended up with George Bush.
People who will vote for Ron Paul in '08, or simply stay home out of "protest," will end up a year, maybe 2 years from now, with bumper stickers that say, "don't blame me, I didn't vote for Obama."
People who voted for Ralph Nader in '00 ended up with George Bush.
People who will vote for Ron Paul in '08, or simply stay home out of "protest," will end up a year, maybe 2 years from now, with bumper stickers that say, "don't blame me, I didn't vote for Obama."
Fair enough. Another slant on the "mocking" aspect; sometimes folks have to be shocked out of their comfort zones to consider alternative viewpoints.
Perhaps the degree of "offense" taken to Wright's remarks correlates to the amount of emotional investment one has in the status quo? Just a thought.For the record, I'm not supporting Obama. Change can be good; Obama's brand of change is not, IMO. That he has gotten this far is a reflection of the paucity of leadership offered by any other leading candidate.
Still and all, if Wright prompts reflective thought, rather than reflexive backlash
, that might be beneficial. We shall see. 
Okay, here's something of substance. I will quote him. From yesterday.
""I am not one of the most divisive" black spiritual leaders, he said."
- www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/04/27/obama.wright.ap/index.html
"DETROIT, Michigan (AP) -- The outspoken former pastor of Barack Obama told an audience of 10,000 at an NAACP dinner on Sunday that despite what his critics say, he is descriptive, not divisive, when he speaks about racial injustices."
He doesn't deny being devisive, he only claims that he isn't one of the most devisive. This is one example of why I called him a BS artist, because elsewhere he claims he isn't devisive.
I know Lincoln didn't say it, but I like it anyway. (He actually told one about a cow.) It's the old question about how many legs would a dog have if you called the tail a leg. Four, doesn't matter what you call the tail, it's still 4.
And Wright is full of it no matter how he spins the story.
John
""I am not one of the most divisive" black spiritual leaders, he said."
- www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/04/27/obama.wright.ap/index.html
"DETROIT, Michigan (AP) -- The outspoken former pastor of Barack Obama told an audience of 10,000 at an NAACP dinner on Sunday that despite what his critics say, he is descriptive, not divisive, when he speaks about racial injustices."
He doesn't deny being devisive, he only claims that he isn't one of the most devisive. This is one example of why I called him a BS artist, because elsewhere he claims he isn't devisive.
I know Lincoln didn't say it, but I like it anyway. (He actually told one about a cow.) It's the old question about how many legs would a dog have if you called the tail a leg. Four, doesn't matter what you call the tail, it's still 4.
And Wright is full of it no matter how he spins the story.
John
johnbt, from the link you posted, see video comments of Roland Martin, and Soledad O'Brian: http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/04/27/obama.wright.ap/index.html#cnnSTCVideo
Pretty much sums it up. A longer consideration of his speeches, might yield a different (more positive) perspective than the oft-played soundbite.
They point out that Rev. Wright has 2 Master's Degrees, a PHD, speaks 5 languages, and served in the Marines. Not a crackpot; but a man of accomplishment. It remains to be seen if the "different, not deficient" theme Wright expressed, survives the catcalls.
Pretty much sums it up. A longer consideration of his speeches, might yield a different (more positive) perspective than the oft-played soundbite.
They point out that Rev. Wright has 2 Master's Degrees, a PHD, speaks 5 languages, and served in the Marines. Not a crackpot; but a man of accomplishment. It remains to be seen if the "different, not deficient" theme Wright expressed, survives the catcalls.
Wildalaska
Moderator
Rev Wright is good buddies with Rev Farrakhan, a rascist anti-semite.
Rev Wright is thus a rascist anti anti semite. Same thing as david Dukes buddies. You share the mud in the sty
WildanthatswhyisayobamaisarascistandandantisemiteAlaska ™
Rev Wright is thus a rascist anti anti semite. Same thing as david Dukes buddies. You share the mud in the sty
WildanthatswhyisayobamaisarascistandandantisemiteAlaska ™
Frank Ettin
Administrator
Being well educated and having advanced degrees is no guarantee of good character, morality or ethics. Bill Clinton was a Rhodes Scholar, as well as an adulterer.
"the oft-played soundbite"
What you call a soundbite, most people call by its proper name - a quote. He said it and all the spin in the world won't make it disappear.
And that applies to all of his quotes. They won't go away.
I've had quite a bit of classroom education myself. I know the practical differences between book learning and wisdom.
John
Edited to add: I see he left Richmond's own Virginia Union to enlist for 2 years, but I don't see what he studied. Then he got 2 degrees in English from Howard University in D.C. and then 2 divinity degrees, one from University of Chicago Divinity School and one from United Theological Seminary in Dayton. A fine education for a person who wants to live by the spoken word - sermons IOW.
What you call a soundbite, most people call by its proper name - a quote. He said it and all the spin in the world won't make it disappear.
And that applies to all of his quotes. They won't go away.
I've had quite a bit of classroom education myself. I know the practical differences between book learning and wisdom.
John
Edited to add: I see he left Richmond's own Virginia Union to enlist for 2 years, but I don't see what he studied. Then he got 2 degrees in English from Howard University in D.C. and then 2 divinity degrees, one from University of Chicago Divinity School and one from United Theological Seminary in Dayton. A fine education for a person who wants to live by the spoken word - sermons IOW.
Wildalaska
Moderator
Both
They guy is a menace, and is illustrative to the depths the democrats have sunk.
WildboththeleftandtherightareenemiesoffreedomAlaska ™
Who knows, I will also be able to say; Don't blame me, I didn't vote for McCain" should he happen to win, because he will do wrong too.
I am finished with voting for people who are not worthy. And, there are some potential benefits to not having a liberal Republican as president.
WINSTON THE WOLF
Moderator
Might not have to write in Ron Paul in. He might be the only one on the ballot. Mccain has broken two FEC laws and one of them he wrote.......
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