overpriced and second rate
- Thread starter Firepower!
- Start date
I've had a Kahr MK9, which is the all steel 9mm, for about 4 years. It has never failed in any way and handles really really well. I carry it most of the time. It is far superior to the many other carry guns I have shot. I paid about $400 for their basic model.
I did see a plastic one in the shop and the slide fit was terrible on it, but I think most, even of the plastic type, work fine.
I'd have to say current Colts. I love colts, but the XSE I got in 05 went back and forth from the factory 3 times before they agreed to replace it. Then the replacement had a mag stuck in it that would not come out. They got it, the 2nd gun, working right and now its fine, but it took a year of extreme frustration to have the first lemon replaced...a $900 lemon. A gunsmith at Colt finally told me the slide was faulty and it would never shoot reliably without it being replaced. The management still gave me the run around until a guy from the 1911 forum gave me the name of Colts senior marketing guy, Mark Roberts. I told him the whole story and finally I got the gun replaced. Up to then the customer service guy, Paul Zamsky, just kept sending it back saying it was fixed. Yea right. It would not cycle right, had multiple FTF, FTE, Stovepipes, ect. What a nightmare.
I did see a plastic one in the shop and the slide fit was terrible on it, but I think most, even of the plastic type, work fine.
I'd have to say current Colts. I love colts, but the XSE I got in 05 went back and forth from the factory 3 times before they agreed to replace it. Then the replacement had a mag stuck in it that would not come out. They got it, the 2nd gun, working right and now its fine, but it took a year of extreme frustration to have the first lemon replaced...a $900 lemon. A gunsmith at Colt finally told me the slide was faulty and it would never shoot reliably without it being replaced. The management still gave me the run around until a guy from the 1911 forum gave me the name of Colts senior marketing guy, Mark Roberts. I told him the whole story and finally I got the gun replaced. Up to then the customer service guy, Paul Zamsky, just kept sending it back saying it was fixed. Yea right. It would not cycle right, had multiple FTF, FTE, Stovepipes, ect. What a nightmare.
Kimber: I recently bought a Kimber Pro CDP II and feel that I overpaid. My weapon has functioned fine so far, but I can't believe it has a plastic mainspring housing. The safety looks like a cheap piece of casting with the seam still visible. Apparently they don't like Kimber magazines - don't know since I've only used Wilson mags in it. Virtually everyone says that the recoil spring should be replaced with a different spring, including Wolff who makes the springs for Kimber. I just plain paid too much!
If someone can show me a pistol of the same quality as my H&K USP Compact that costs less, I would love to know about it. Glock might qualify except that I like an external safety.
KelTec - I don't know how they can make any money with the cost of their pistols and their excellent customer service. For the price, I wasn't that upset that my PF-9 had to go back to KelTec for service due to FTEs. It was back in 10 days and works flawlessly.
If someone can show me a pistol of the same quality as my H&K USP Compact that costs less, I would love to know about it. Glock might qualify except that I like an external safety.
KelTec - I don't know how they can make any money with the cost of their pistols and their excellent customer service. For the price, I wasn't that upset that my PF-9 had to go back to KelTec for service due to FTEs. It was back in 10 days and works flawlessly.
Another Kahr defender... over a thousand rounds through my K9. Great carry gun.
Also defending higher end 1911. My Wilson CQB is awesome. It's the only 1911 I've owned. I've shot many others. Still the best. I don't need to collect a bunch of other 1911s. The one suits me fine.
Okay, maybe I'll get another in the future. Or 2. Or 3.
Sorry, I can't add to the over priced and second rate list.
Also defending higher end 1911. My Wilson CQB is awesome. It's the only 1911 I've owned. I've shot many others. Still the best. I don't need to collect a bunch of other 1911s. The one suits me fine.
Okay, maybe I'll get another in the future. Or 2. Or 3.
Sorry, I can't add to the over priced and second rate list.
Last edited:
This is from a personal perspective. Your mileage may vary.
Kimber - the original guns were excellent. Alas, their QC has slipped and other companies offer a better value.
HK - with the exception of the P7, P9 and HK-4 pistols, they are expensive, bulky and awkward to operate.
AMT - The AMT company made the Auto-Mag, the AMT Backup, a .30 Carbine autopistol and other guns that never quite worked right all the time. And you had the privilege of paying thru the nose for them.
Para Ordinance - While I like some of their products, it seems their QA has suffered and I've seen several LDA pistols that failed on the range, one with as few as 20 rounds through it.
Thompson/Auto-Ordinance - now owned by Kahr, that merger didn't help their reliability (or lack thereof).
Very close to what I'll call the 2nd tier "also-rans" on my list is the CZ-75B pistols (the P-01 is okay). The problem is that the safety lever on the CZ, to my thinking, is either too far forward on the frame OR it operates bass-ackwards. By that I mean the safety pivots at the rear, close to the thumb. You have to reach past the pivot point to operate the safety. I have average sized hands and that safety is always just about 1/8" out of reach unless I rotate my hand on the gun (not what I need during a draw!) If the pivot point was at the front of the safety lever and it extended back towards the rear of the pistol, then it would work far better. Otherwise I think the CZ pistols are excellent and very competitive on price.
Now... excuse me whilst I don my flameproof suit.
[shuffle-shuffle] <ziiiip> Okay.
Sig-Sauer Pistols
Hey, no fair throwing knives!
Really, for the price of Sigs, I would expect a grip shape that is marginally close to being comfortable in the hand with a trigger that's at least condusive to a DA pull. Most Sigs have the grip ergonomics of a 2x4 sans the splinters. Combine that with a trigger shape that feels bizzare in DA mode, I have to put the Sigs in the 2nd class category for me. They are very well made and expensive, but I can't use them so they're worthless to me.
Sig Lovers - flames in private, please. Just keep in mind it's an opinion.
Kimber - the original guns were excellent. Alas, their QC has slipped and other companies offer a better value.
HK - with the exception of the P7, P9 and HK-4 pistols, they are expensive, bulky and awkward to operate.
AMT - The AMT company made the Auto-Mag, the AMT Backup, a .30 Carbine autopistol and other guns that never quite worked right all the time. And you had the privilege of paying thru the nose for them.
Para Ordinance - While I like some of their products, it seems their QA has suffered and I've seen several LDA pistols that failed on the range, one with as few as 20 rounds through it.
Thompson/Auto-Ordinance - now owned by Kahr, that merger didn't help their reliability (or lack thereof).
Very close to what I'll call the 2nd tier "also-rans" on my list is the CZ-75B pistols (the P-01 is okay). The problem is that the safety lever on the CZ, to my thinking, is either too far forward on the frame OR it operates bass-ackwards. By that I mean the safety pivots at the rear, close to the thumb. You have to reach past the pivot point to operate the safety. I have average sized hands and that safety is always just about 1/8" out of reach unless I rotate my hand on the gun (not what I need during a draw!) If the pivot point was at the front of the safety lever and it extended back towards the rear of the pistol, then it would work far better. Otherwise I think the CZ pistols are excellent and very competitive on price.
Now... excuse me whilst I don my flameproof suit.
[shuffle-shuffle] <ziiiip> Okay.
Sig-Sauer Pistols
Hey, no fair throwing knives!
Really, for the price of Sigs, I would expect a grip shape that is marginally close to being comfortable in the hand with a trigger that's at least condusive to a DA pull. Most Sigs have the grip ergonomics of a 2x4 sans the splinters. Combine that with a trigger shape that feels bizzare in DA mode, I have to put the Sigs in the 2nd class category for me. They are very well made and expensive, but I can't use them so they're worthless to me.
Sig Lovers - flames in private, please. Just keep in mind it's an opinion.
Last edited:
Well, having been out doing some window shopping for pistols this week, I'd have to say since the election, they are ALL over-priced. And I do mean ALL. 
Lots of good pistols out there, but, not a single one is a good buy
anymore. :barf:
Please feel free to contest my assertions if you feel otherwise. At this point, I need to hear some good news.
Lots of good pistols out there, but, not a single one is a good buy
anymore. :barf:
Please feel free to contest my assertions if you feel otherwise. At this point, I need to hear some good news.
Linear Thinker
New member
Here's my overpriced 2nd rate list:
Any 3rd Gen Colt SAA. The fit-finish-action are not worth $1000 +. No wonder the Italians own the CAS market.
Any Colt handgun from the UAW strike days. For that matter, Colt has been coasting on their famous name for last 25 years.
Any recent S&W revolver with key safety. Such nanny features can get you killed.
Semi-Custom 1911s (Wilson, Baer, Brown, Nighthawk etc) - why would you pay $2-$3K to make a reliable gun out of a fussy, finicky 100-year-old-design? (With all due respect to JM Browning)
LT
Any 3rd Gen Colt SAA. The fit-finish-action are not worth $1000 +. No wonder the Italians own the CAS market.
Any Colt handgun from the UAW strike days. For that matter, Colt has been coasting on their famous name for last 25 years.
Any recent S&W revolver with key safety. Such nanny features can get you killed.
Semi-Custom 1911s (Wilson, Baer, Brown, Nighthawk etc) - why would you pay $2-$3K to make a reliable gun out of a fussy, finicky 100-year-old-design? (With all due respect to JM Browning)
LT
Last edited: