overpriced and second rate
- Thread starter Firepower!
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Firepower!
New member
I dont think HK or Sigs are over priced. I dont mind paying for quality and ergonomics.
What do you guys think about a broomhandle mouser with respect to this thread?
What do you guys think about a broomhandle mouser with respect to this thread?
" Kahr ? "
I am surprised how often KAHR comes up, certainly they are not cheap, but I myself have a PM9, 15oz gun, ss guide rod, steel sites, steel mags, recoil is similar to my beretta 92fs (that is about 3x bigger), $600, I have about 1k rounds thru it- no malfunction. Anyway I would like to hear why kahr has come so often on this thread?
I am surprised how often KAHR comes up, certainly they are not cheap, but I myself have a PM9, 15oz gun, ss guide rod, steel sites, steel mags, recoil is similar to my beretta 92fs (that is about 3x bigger), $600, I have about 1k rounds thru it- no malfunction. Anyway I would like to hear why kahr has come so often on this thread?
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I agree with JohnPaul on the PM9 and other Kahrs. I think most people are putting them in the overpriced category because of the listed pricing. Like you, I didn't pay close to list for my PM9 (DLC w/NSs) and it has been very reliable. There are a lot of reports out there about the PM9's reliability but again mine is fine. I think it's mostly earlier serial #'s and on PM9s that haven't been broken in yet (or properly). It is easily my favorite gun to carry (IWB or pocket). As for reliability, the other Kahrs (ex. MK9) don't seem to have the issues that some PM9 owners face. We can't throw the baby out with the bath water on Kahr just because of some PM9 reliability issues. Look at the Glock 36 when it came out. Weren't there some reliability issues with it? Do we now label Glock as making unreliable guns? AFAIK, Kahr has been very good at working with people that have had issues with their PM9s to get things corrected.
The other one I see mentioned in this thread that doesn't make sense to me is Seecamp. IMO, the little Seecamps are far from overpriced and they are VERY well made guns. I see the .32s for around $400 often. You get what you pay for with the Seecamp. I wonder if the folks who mentioned Seecamp in this thread have ever handled or shot one? Yeah, there's a long wait time on the .380 unless you are lucky to find one locally and it's priced higher but again, you get what you pay for. Mine should be done in about a month and I even splurged on a black alligator DelFatti PH-3 to go with it. Should be a great pocket setup that will last me and the others I pass it on to a lifetime.
The other one I see mentioned in this thread that doesn't make sense to me is Seecamp. IMO, the little Seecamps are far from overpriced and they are VERY well made guns. I see the .32s for around $400 often. You get what you pay for with the Seecamp. I wonder if the folks who mentioned Seecamp in this thread have ever handled or shot one? Yeah, there's a long wait time on the .380 unless you are lucky to find one locally and it's priced higher but again, you get what you pay for. Mine should be done in about a month and I even splurged on a black alligator DelFatti PH-3 to go with it. Should be a great pocket setup that will last me and the others I pass it on to a lifetime.
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The USP Compact just isn't compact. The slide is far too big. The bore axis is quite high, causing a lot of muzzle flip. Getting replacement parts out of HK is very difficult. It took me 5 phone calls just to get a replacement spring. The SA trigger is fair, at best, and the DA trigger is just downright awful.
Compact 1911s are far more compact and have far better triggers. They have a lower bore axis and less muzzle flip. They can have the usual 1911 issues about reliability, however.
Taurus may be overpriced, but I don't think they're overrated. Most people think they're dubious, and I think that is correct. You can't be overrated if everyone thinks you suck.
Sigs and HK's may be overpriced, but are they overrated? Probably not. Both make high quality pistols which are invariably reliable. I think the P30 is a stellar pistol, but for me (someone still building a collection for practicality, not simply guns I like) I'm not about to spend 800 bucks for a sizable 9mm.
Further, I don't know how you can say Glocks or XD's are overpriced. For the money, they're the best pistols available.
Sigs and HK's may be overpriced, but are they overrated? Probably not. Both make high quality pistols which are invariably reliable. I think the P30 is a stellar pistol, but for me (someone still building a collection for practicality, not simply guns I like) I'm not about to spend 800 bucks for a sizable 9mm.
Further, I don't know how you can say Glocks or XD's are overpriced. For the money, they're the best pistols available.
Coyote Hitman
Moderator
Glocks are the AK's of the handgun scene. Not overpriced, not over-rated. Reliable pieces of equipment that do most everything really well, but nothing overly spectacular.
Firepower
I have two broomhandle Mausers, a standard model and one of the smaller Bolos. Both are 7.63. Once you master the stripper clip method of loading they are great pistols. They are an antique design, but I would not feel badly armed carrying either of them. Years ago I got to shoot one of the full-auto models with detachable shoulder stock. Once you learned to control it (short bursts), it seemed to me to be a very deadly piece of hardware.
I have two broomhandle Mausers, a standard model and one of the smaller Bolos. Both are 7.63. Once you master the stripper clip method of loading they are great pistols. They are an antique design, but I would not feel badly armed carrying either of them. Years ago I got to shoot one of the full-auto models with detachable shoulder stock. Once you learned to control it (short bursts), it seemed to me to be a very deadly piece of hardware.
i'd have to vote kimber.
i'm surprised to see so many votes for kahr. i have nearly 2000 rounds through my CW9 with only 2 ftf's, and those were in the first 50 rounds. it's been absolutely flawless since. i've fed it every 9mm i can get my hands on, nato, +p and +p+ included.
i'm surprised to see so many votes for kahr. i have nearly 2000 rounds through my CW9 with only 2 ftf's, and those were in the first 50 rounds. it's been absolutely flawless since. i've fed it every 9mm i can get my hands on, nato, +p and +p+ included.
Stevie-Ray
New member
Kahr tops it for me. No gun that has the problems I've heard associated with it should be that expensive. And I wanted one; I just couldn't see paying that price.
Rather glad I didn't.
HK especially the USPC. I've got one of these. I think it the single most reliable handgun I have. That's where it ends. My Kimber UCDP handles better, has less recoil with the same rounds, even though it's lighter, is FAR more accurate, and doesn't tire my hand out after 50 rounds. Plus, it's a 1911. Yes, the Kimber was more expensive, YES, it was worth it. IMO, the HK shouldn't have cost more than a comparable Glock, though it did to the tune of $200. Not really second-rate, but come on!
Kimber....even though I've got a perfect one. They should be lowering their prices until they get their quality control back. I've heard from some it's back, but the damage is done. Customers should be pleased to see Kimber "give back" to the public with lower prices. They might still have time, but I honestly don't know. I don't consider them second-rate either, just with problems.
Rohrbaugh. Just Rohrbaugh$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ From what I hear, not second-rate, but ?$?$?$
Rather glad I didn't.HK especially the USPC. I've got one of these. I think it the single most reliable handgun I have. That's where it ends. My Kimber UCDP handles better, has less recoil with the same rounds, even though it's lighter, is FAR more accurate, and doesn't tire my hand out after 50 rounds. Plus, it's a 1911. Yes, the Kimber was more expensive, YES, it was worth it. IMO, the HK shouldn't have cost more than a comparable Glock, though it did to the tune of $200. Not really second-rate, but come on!
Kimber....even though I've got a perfect one. They should be lowering their prices until they get their quality control back. I've heard from some it's back, but the damage is done. Customers should be pleased to see Kimber "give back" to the public with lower prices. They might still have time, but I honestly don't know. I don't consider them second-rate either, just with problems.
Rohrbaugh. Just Rohrbaugh$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ From what I hear, not second-rate, but ?$?$?$
Redneckrepairs
New member
From the first page , and as an answer No One makes a 100% reliable pistol . My first Kahr ( a pm9 that is supposedly beset with problems ) convinced me to buy two more Kahrs . Now i dont want to be a " kahr fanboy " but ill post that mine worked and still work every time someone posts a " kahrs are crap " post .
I have a Seecamp and love it. I bought it used for a steal compared to what I've seen other used ones going for. It amazes me that a used Seecamp can soemtimes go for more than the MSRP of a new gun. To me, there's something wrong with that. A Seecamp .32 goes for ~$425 new. I've seen some used ones going for $450 or more.
As for second-rate AND overpriced I'd have to say S&W 500s and 460s. There are cheaper ways to get that much pain. (Hire a dominatrix, stick your twig-n-berries in a mouse trap are just a couple of examples.)
Second-rate candidates:
Hi-point, AMT, Charter Arms
Over priced:
New S&W revolvers with two peice barrels or frames made of metals I can't pronounce.
H&K USPs and everything after are a little on the over pirced side
Kahr metal frame pistols.
Roughbars
I'm sure I can think of more, given time
As for second-rate AND overpriced I'd have to say S&W 500s and 460s. There are cheaper ways to get that much pain. (Hire a dominatrix, stick your twig-n-berries in a mouse trap are just a couple of examples.)
Second-rate candidates:
Hi-point, AMT, Charter Arms
Over priced:
New S&W revolvers with two peice barrels or frames made of metals I can't pronounce.
H&K USPs and everything after are a little on the over pirced side
Kahr metal frame pistols.
Roughbars
I'm sure I can think of more, given time