McCain Selects Alaska Gov. Palin as Running Mate

[JuanCarlos]

So, I'm still a relative novice in Presidential elections. But I thought the conventional wisdom was that a VP pick can't really do much, in the long term, to "boost" a candidate. That basically, the best you could expect out of a VP pick was that they'd A) not hurt you and B) bring you their home state.

So the question I pose here is whether or not Palin might actually be an exception to this. Because otherwise, by this logic, she's a horrible choice...relatively inexperienced (note: compared to other potential VP picks, not Obama), and comes from a state that was nearly guaranteed to go red anyway.

However, with this election likely (as most are) to come down to a percent or two in maybe a couple states, I'd personally suggest that she is such an exception. She's not going to pull significant numbers of female Clinton supporters...most female Clinton supporters are liberal enough (on abortion specifically, and on social issues in general) that if they learn much of anything about her they're not going to swing that way. But really, to swing an election by a percent, you only need to pull like 2% of female Democrats. Can she do this? I'd suggest a strong "maybe."

Then you've got the fact that (as seen here) she seems able to help unify the conservative base, including some factions that McCain has had a real hard time appealing to (fundamentalist Christian, firearm enthusiasts, etc). Which, while it won't swing any Democratic votes, is certain to help turnout.

What say you, L&P?

 

[Maxb49]

That's the same charge that can be used against McCain. He has been in office for 20+ years. Now both tickets are equal in experience.

This "experience" talking point is a load of crap. You don't have experience being president unless you have been president. Obama and McCain have not been president.

No one had less experience for the job than George Washington. Going to tell me he was a failure as president?

George W. Bush had experience after his first term; his experience made him less qualified to be president.

I smell dog whistle politics here...

 

[buzz_knox]

That's the same charge that can be used against McCain. He has been in office for 20+ years. Now both tickets are equal in experience. They both have their long term Washington insider and their inexperienced candidate. Which one will the American people choose? Either way we lose.

The difference is that of the four people involved, two didn't start out to be a career politician and one hasn't been working to be president for the majority of their life. So, we've got two career politicians, one who had a second career as a politician (naval aviation doesn't hold much of a career for those who can't raise their arms due to torture) and one "working class stiff done good" involved. Personally, I'll take the pair that includes the latter two individuals.

She's anti-choice and anti-healthcare - the two issues held dearly to Hillary Clinton supporters. No doubt she will be supported by the Republican base, but that vote was going to McCain regardless. Being from Alaska, she brings in no extra swing state votes and perhaps no Hillary supporters. If this ethics investigation uncovers anything remotely corrupt McCain is dead in the general election. In my opinion, John McCain could have done better.

She's got her personal beliefs but you might want to check into how those influenced her actions as governor. The quick answer (which you can confirm) is that they haven't. In fact, she's gone to great pains to insure that her beliefs do not get in her duties.

As for the investigation, that's been given new life by the nomination but it was a dead issue previously. The special investigator has noted her complete cooperation, everyone agrees that the actions she took were legal, the one person in her administration who acted inappropriately got a two month suspension, and the complainant has found to be less than honest in his own accusations.

 

[Maxb49]

Hillarys supporters were pro-choice feminists for the most part, of course they would. My wife (ex lib feminist) is thrilled to death over his choice.

See, Black, that's the point. Your wife is an "ex lib feminist", now conservative, yes? She wasn't going to vote for Obama anyway. If John McCain can't pick up Hillary Clinton's base, he's going to lose this election.

 

[Musketeer]

So the question I pose here is whether or not Palin might actually be an exception to this.

Yes she is. The close fought and nasty fight in the DNC between Hillary and Obama has 18 million really ****** off Hillary voters out there and > 50% of this nation are women.

The old paradigm is shattered in this election.

 

[Forwardassist]

If a accident happens immediately in front of both cars speeding down the road which one do you want to be in?

Nice but that really has no bearing on what we are discussing. What matter is McCain is just as influenced by Washington's corrupt politics as Biden.They both stink. Palin and Obama are just window dressing to cover the corrupt politics that control both parties. I ain't buying it.

 

[buzz_knox]

I'd personally suggest that she is such an exception.

You're exactly right. She helps McCain shore up his position with both conservatives and women, and helps negate the "McCain stands for old Washington" attack. Bush lost the female vote by around 3%, and I'd say that she is good for at least that much.

 

[JuanCarlos]

Oh God, a car analogy...

CLEANSE IT WITH FIRE!

 

[madmag]

The best the Dem's can do?

Not to worry if this is their best shot at Palin. Saying she was the mayor of a small town..they keep saying that, but news flash she is now Governor.

I think this is all part of the initial scramble to respond to her as VP. In their little war room they probably said, we have to say something. OK, lets say she does not have experience. Little voice in back of room said, isn't that what Hillary said about Obama.

 

[B. Lahey]

The most rabid Hill-dawg supporter I know already told me she is going to vote for Mc. I bet this sets it in stone.

 

[miboso]

cxg231

What's more important to the long term survival of America? Civil liberties and respect for the constitution?

And you are going to vote FOR the Democrats as having more respect for the constitution?
Every (I could be wrong, but I doubt it) federal social program is a violation of the constitution. Who supports these? Your Dems, as well as most of the current crop of Repub politicians.
I think/hope that Palin does not. As for McCain, I already gave up on him.
If not for Palin, I would not even consider voting for either Dem or Repub. I was all set to vote Libertarian, the party that actually shows respect for the constitution. (I still may, being from CA)

Changing subjects: Regarding the McCain-Palin sign, can it be McCain-PALIN

 

[madmag]

http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2008/03/01/politics/fromtheroad/entry3896372.shtml

Date March 2008.

FORT WORTH, TEXAS -- Hillary Clinton told reporters that both she and the presumtive Republican nominee John McCain offer the experience to be ready to tackle any crisis facing the country under their watch, but Barack Obama simply offers more rhetoric. “I think you'll be able to imagine many things Senator McCain will be able to say,” she said. “He’s never been the president, but he will put forth his lifetime of experience. I will put forth my lifetime of experience. Senator Obama will put forth a speech he made in 2002.” Clinton was referring to Obama’s anti-war speech he delivered in Chicago before entering the United States Senate.

 

[HKuser]

Then you've got the fact that (as seen here) she seems able to help unify the conservative base, including some factions that McCain has had a real hard time appealing to (fundamentalist Christian, firearm enthusiasts, etc). Which, while it won't swing any Democratic votes, is certain to help turnout.

What say you, L&P?

As much as it may pain me to say this to you, JC, I agree. I would add in pro-life Catholics to that grouping. Conservatives would from grudging acceptance or dismissal of McCain to enthusiasm for the ticket.

 

[zxcvbob]

Interesting choice none the less and clearly going after disgruntled Hillary voters.

I think it's more of an attempt to win over the Ron Paul supporters. It might work.

 

[akr]

Originally Posted by akr
CXG 231--------- You are confused. It's the Dems who have gotten very far away from what it traditionally means to be Democrat.

Examples please? I have given pretty good examples of how the republicans have gone way off the reservation lately...

That's supposed to be common knowledge. How old are you, anyway?

 

[SugarmillMan]

Ron Paul supporters? You mean all 25 of them?

 

[miboso]

No doubt she will be supported by the Republican base, but that vote was going to McCain regardless.

uhhh, I think not. I believe that a good portion of people who will now at least consider voting for McCain/PALIN were going to either stay home or vote write-in or 3rd party. For proof of that see some of the statements in this thread. This would be the conservative base, which McCain definitely did NOT have locked up.

 

[Maxb49]

The difference is that of the four people involved, two didn't start out to be a career politician and one hasn't been working to be president for the majority of their life.

Barack Obama graduated from Columbia University in 1983 with a bachelors degree, beginning work at the Business International Corporation, following this, NYPIRG. Four years later, he began work with a church in Chicago as a community organizer. His accomplishments there included developing a job training program, a college tutoring program, and a tenants rights group. In 1988, Obama was accepted to Harvard Law school, where, during this time he he served as president and editor of the Harvard Law Review. Gradutaing magna cum laude with a Juris Doctor in 1991, he becan work with the law firm of Sidley and Austin, and then to Hopkins and Sutter. In 1992, Barack Obama was hired by the University of Chicago Law Schoool to teach Constitutional law, first as a Lecturer from 1992-1996 and then as a Senior Lecturer from 1996 until 2004. In 1993, Barack Obama then joined the law frim of Davis, Miner, Barnhill, and Galland, a firm specializing in civil rights.
In 1992, Obama helped found Public Allies, a not for profit youth leadership development organization. He was also on the board of directors of the Woods Fund of Chicago, a poverty relief organization. Again, he served on the board of directors for the Joyce Foundation, a charity organization in the Great Lakes region. He also served as a member of the board for the Chicago Lawyers Committee for Civil Rights Under Law, the Center for Neighbourhood Technology, and the Lugenia Burns Hpe Center.

After all this stuff happened, he ran or the Illinois State Senate. He did not begin his professional life as a "career politician".

John McCain was the son of an admiral, a nice designation that allowed him to skirt the rules and cut him some slack when breaking the rules. He finished sixth last in his class, as a result of disobeying rules and low grades. Mathematics was not McCain's forte. After barely being awarded (as one could hardly say earning) an undergraduate degree, he then performed poorly in the military, crashing five planes as a result of his incompetence.

Obama beats McCain in educational background and community outreach. If McCain had not been the wealthy son of an admiral, he would have been some average joe on the street trying to make ends meet. He's nothing spectacular in intellect, decision making, or accomplishments. Just some old greedy rich guy.

Sarah Palin, again bested by Obama in the education and community experience department, actually outshines McCain.

Personally, I'll take the pair that includes the latter two individuals.

So you'll be voting Obama/Biden? Good bet!

 

[Maxb49]

uhhh, I think not. I believe that a good portion of people who will now at least consider voting for McCain/PALIN were going to either stay home or vote write-in or 3rd party. For proof of that see some of the statements in this thread. This would be the conservative base, which McCain definitely did NOT have locked up.

Should that be true, McCain's in hotter water than originally was thought.

 

[HKuser]

So what you are saying is you are going to vote for a "Socialist" who has stated he wants to "Redistribute the wealth in The United States" and wants to enact laws removing the freedom to own firearms because of Bush? Hum....I thought someone else was running for President on the Republican party. Can someone please tell me when the constitution was changed to allow this? It must have happened last night while I was asleep...So now George W is back in the fray...

In addition, didn't Barry vote for FISA, the civil liberties bugaboo, PLUS he wants to take our guns. What civil liberties are the Dems defending? Gay marriage? Abortion? This is the "change" they want to give us? Keep the change.