armsmaster270
New member
Another point is the elderly that can see distance but not see the sights on their weapon, the dot puts their sights right on the target which they can see.
Lasers ... useful for a fight, or a good training tool only?
- Thread starter WildBill45
- Start date
Incorrect. speed is fine ACCURACY is final
can you give any reason besides "I don't think so" or "your not military or LEO" that they should segregate the statistics.
Also just because they are proactive in looking for trouble, quite often they are reactive when gunplay actually starts.
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Wildbill,
I'm not sure where you get the assumption, though you are definitely not alone in thinking it, but people do not immediately stop utilizing their fundamentals when they use a laser. With proper body position and good technique, your pistol is already on target or reasonably close when you hit step two of a draw. With a grip activated laser it merely confirms this as you can either fire from 2 or extend out into a more accepted firing position. I get the impression that you think a shootout just involves pure speed. That is how the innocent bystanders around the area get hit. Only hits on the bad guy count.
Back to the point at hand. Lasers do not replace the fundamentals of marksmanship, but they are VERY useful.
It is also pretty easy to say that you are just trying to get more opinions on a matter, however you keep coming back to the "speed is everything" argument, perhaps it is time to expand your horizons.
I'm not sure where you get the assumption, though you are definitely not alone in thinking it, but people do not immediately stop utilizing their fundamentals when they use a laser. With proper body position and good technique, your pistol is already on target or reasonably close when you hit step two of a draw. With a grip activated laser it merely confirms this as you can either fire from 2 or extend out into a more accepted firing position. I get the impression that you think a shootout just involves pure speed. That is how the innocent bystanders around the area get hit. Only hits on the bad guy count.
Back to the point at hand. Lasers do not replace the fundamentals of marksmanship, but they are VERY useful.
It is also pretty easy to say that you are just trying to get more opinions on a matter, however you keep coming back to the "speed is everything" argument, perhaps it is time to expand your horizons.
Very true. There are many elements that will help you survive an armed confrontation in addition to speed and superman reflexes. It seems that some posters feel a need to segregate responders into pro-laser and anti-laser camps, and then procede to demonize the laser sight advocates. Most of those who have posted in this thread who find a laser sight helpful in some situations are not saying that a laser sight is a substitute for any traditional self-defense regimens, only that a laser might augment established shooting techniques in particular circumstances. As Rob228 noted:" ...people do not immediately stop utilizing their fundamentals when they use a laser."
Yes. There is a vast gulf between going in as a team, with body armor, support and guns/lasers/lights ready expecting a confrontation (proactive) vs the thug who instigates a problem at bad breath distance on the street while your gun is still holstered (reactive).
In the first instance, I can see a niche use for the laser.
In the second, I'm extremely doubtful.
I'm not sure why so many seem to have a problem understaning the difference.
I agree....
Its much like the record or the 8 track player or any of that stuff... Take all the positions you want and do what you want the new stuffs here and its not going away.
Laser may or may not be of benefit when you storm a house but it is certainly a benefit although an external sniper may or may not want to have it. I have done forced entry in combat, my unit did not have lasers to issue but I still wouldnt have refused one. Our forced entry was a matter of survival not a planned attack.
Use whatever you like... Electricity and flush toilets are here but you can still find the older options. Whos to say your wrong for having a different mind set.
Me I like the laser but if your still playing records who cares? Enjoy.
This article seems to point at the idea that yes the army did/does want to mount lasers on pistols for use in the "field".
http://www3.ausa.org/webpub/DeptArmyMagazine.nsf/byid/CCRN-6CCS3N
http://www3.ausa.org/webpub/DeptArmyMagazine.nsf/byid/CCRN-6CCS3N
WildBill45
New member
smince
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That's the fact of life of how very many fights occur.
No one can be 'switched on' 24/7.
If one walks around with their head on a swivel, you will most likely be de-selected as a target anyway. A BG will watch for someone 'in the white'.
I know us 'super-tactical-forum-posting-gun-guys-and-gals' never let our guard down and stay in yellow or light orange constantly
Sorry, but if you live your life, have kids/wife/family, visit any kind of store, work in public, etc you will:
1. Have your attention diverted (at least occasionally)
2. Have to let someone 'inside your space'
I pretty competent at shooting stationary cardboard targets from a solid stance using sights. So, yeah, I do most of my practice for the kind of incident I realistically expect to have.
Extremely close range, low light, both targets moving and probably having to point shoot and probably in very crappy weather.
That's why it's called situational awareness
I'm pretty competent at shooting moving targets while moving and competent at shooting little groups from far away and little steel animals and IDPA and IPSC and Bullseye and cowboy shooting.
One thing I've found is I never miss targets at 3-5 yards neither do most of the 1000s of other shooters I've watched.The misses come in the 10yard and up range when shooters try to point shoot for that extra speed. In competition you can't miss fast enough to win, In life you can't miss fast enough to survive.
WildBill45
New member
Lots of good information gentlemen!
I am happy see real passionate debate here! I trust a lot of folks, who don't respond but read there anyway, will learn something out of this debate.
These are real issues, in real hostile times ... so it does matter!
For all of you readers out there who won't contribute, remember one thing:
Even a broken clock is RIGHT TWICE A DAY!
I am happy see real passionate debate here! I trust a lot of folks, who don't respond but read there anyway, will learn something out of this debate.
These are real issues, in real hostile times ... so it does matter!
For all of you readers out there who won't contribute, remember one thing:
Even a broken clock is RIGHT TWICE A DAY!
My problem with this whole debate is many of the "anti laser" posters not only assume, but flat out state that "pro lasers" are in-experienced, having no practical knowledge of combat or SD pistol/revolver shooting.
I can assure you that's not the case, but stating such turns me away for any opinion he may have, rather legit or not. That's not a good way to present your case.
I can assure you that's not the case, but stating such turns me away for any opinion he may have, rather legit or not. That's not a good way to present your case.