GRIP ANGLE real problem or individual choice?

I cannot believe I read this entire post. It is apparant that someone (possibly the OP) meant to do nothing other than stir the pot with this.
But I guess it did get me to finally (after years of reading posts) wait for the goofy registration process to complete.
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DougU, If nothing else good comes of this thread it got you to pull the trigger (pun intended) and start posting. Welcome to TFL (officially that is)

I started the thread in part because I'm tired of guys for whom the Glock (and yes it is always the Glock) doesn't point well, saying that its grip angle is wrong, a problem, and worst, while anointing their particular choice as have the perfect or natural grip.

It was my sincere hope that after given some history and some unmistakable facts, that folks would see the light. They didn't oh well. You can lead a horse to Kool aid........LOL.

I have found in other debates that the better your argument the more name calling goes on from the opposition.
 
"All of the actual hard data supports my view."

Nonsense. Grip angle is a problem for quite a few people I know. That's some hard data and more has been presented by others in this thread. The rest of the verbal overload you dreamed up is just a fantasy to support your point of view that since some people aren't bothered by grip angle, then nobody should be.

I've been shooting for six decades, so I'm quite familiar with a variety of shooters and a variety of fast talkers. It's easier to tell when a shooter is accurate than it is a fast talker. ;)
 
threegun...

... I am going to take a wild guess that you are a bit younger than I am. This guess is based on the fact that you seem to think discussions of grip angles were virtually non-existent until Springfield debuted the XD.

The HS-2000 first appeared in 1999. Springfield made it the XD in 2002.

I shot my first Glock (a friend's G17) in 1990. I bought my first G30 in 1997. Grip angle of the Glock in particular was already a talking point; some Glock afficionado's praised it as an improvement - they liked the angle. So it wasn't only a "Con" point, it was also a "Pro" depending on whether one liked the angle.

And, as others in this thread have pointed out, grip angle was a definite point of discussion with regards to the Luger, and the Ruger MkI etc.

(FWIW, I don't like those angles, either. I can shoot them, but I don't like them. Good guns, but they do nothing for me.)
 
Thing I dont get with glock, is they really have not innovated, even seeing gen 1-4, they are pretty similar, glock going to shot show is like honda going to the detroit motor show and introducing civics every year.
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The real situation is even more comical than you suppose. From the "You Can't Make This S*!t Up Department," this is what actually has been going on at Glock's Ergonomics R&D department:

They've been making them worse. Gen 1 was just a checkered front strap. Gen 2 was checkered front strap and a grooved back strap.

Then it went totally off the wall. With Gen 3 they decided to mold in place a Hogue hand all, but without the comfort afford by such a product. Then they went all RTF, and made this abomination feel even worse. With Gen 4 you have interchangeable back straps that don't change literally anything about the feel of the infamous back strap hump, but modifies the trigger reach a little bit.

In the ergos department, to keep with the auto show analogy, it would be like Honda introducing the Civic year after year whilst morphing it into an ever uglier Yugo with your choice of size in a rear deck lid spoiler that doesn't actually do anything.
 
Mleake, Been a Glock owner/shooter since 1992. I was aware of the pistol not pointing well for some folks. These people simply opted for another platform. Now after the XD campaign it suddenly became a problem. Your experience may be different.
 
I started the thread in part because I'm tired of guys for whom the Glock (and yes it is always the Glock) doesn't point well, saying that its grip angle is wrong, a problem, and worst, while anointing their particular choice as have the perfect or natural grip.
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:rolleyes:
It was my sincere hope that after given some history and some unmistakable facts
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:confused:
All of the actual hard data supports my view.
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;)
here's some history and unmistakeable hard facts.
I bought a set of these grips for my non Glock, Ruger Mk2 from a store that closed it's doors in 1996 (the only reason I mention that year is I cant remember for sure if I bought them in 92 or 93 and I only wanted stuff I knew for a fact)
IMG-20110305-00090.jpg

from Clark's websight
Get that good "1911" feel. These grips are designed to straighten the grip angle to approximate the .45 Colt. They are molded from durable Nylon-impregnated plastic and will fit all Standard, Mk I and Mk II models with A-100 to 1000 on side of frame. Some minor fitting may be required to insure perfect fit and reliable magazine release. Grips may be cut or sanded.
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So enough people had problems with the grip angle of a gun that's not a Glock well before Springfield ever marketed their XD that Clark manufactured a grip to change the grip angle as a solution for this problem.:eek::cool:
 
And ruger went on the make the 22-45.

Prior to Clarks grips I wonder how many folks owned both the 1911 and MKII? Wonder if one was so problematic why own it? If I was incorrect then it simply wouldn't be possible. We can and do adapt to grip angles....thats my point.

The point expressed by you guys is that it matters alot to some folks and I acknowledge this. Thats why the thread included individual choice. If any angle wasn't easily and automatically adapted to by our body then I would agree that it is indeed a problem. Problem being something that would hinder the proper use of the firearm. Since it goes away, if it was an issue to begin with, it therefore cannot be a problem.

Others say if it points weird thats a problem and does inhibit the proper use of the firearm. I would agree with this again if it was permanent but it isn't.

So I'm left with the conclussion that it isn't a problem rather an individual choice. If like Microgunner (my coworker) you change gun platforms like Imelda R. Marcos changed shoes then it would be a wise choice to stay with a familiar grip angle. Otherwise get whatever you like that fits properly and offers the most features that your handgun task requires. Let not grip angle concern you for it is a problem whos solution is Q.E.A. (quick easy and automatic).
 
Since it goes away, if it was an issue to begin with, it therefore cannot be a problem.
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Let not grip angle concern you for it is a problem whos solution is Q.E.A. (quick easy and automatic).
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So which is it Capt. Contradiction is it not a problem or is it as I have said on page 4 of this thread.
absolutely, grip angle while a real minor problem that only really bothers me under certain circumstances has lead me to make an individual choice to not purchase a Glock.
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Capt Contradition LOL. You are correct however it was a mistake in words.

To the point. How is something which goes away Q.E.A a problem?
 
You are correct however it was a mistake in words.
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let me guess forgot to put koolaid in your coffee.LOL

To the point. How is something which goes away Q.E.A a problem?
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If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck it's probably a duck.
and
If it has a solution (even a Q.E.A. solution ) it most certainly is a problem.
even if it's a minor problem, even if only one preson has that problem and whether somebody chooses to overcome that problem or bypass it, it's still a problem. even though you would deny it's a problem and try to change the definition to avoid a problem with perfection.it's a problem.
 
let me guess forgot to put koolaid in your coffee.LOL
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Actually its crystal light these days after all we are in the twentieth century LOL.

How can a problem be a problem if it goes away without doing anything different than normal and thats handle the weapon.

even though you would deny it's a problem and try to change the definition to avoid a problem with perfection.it's a problem
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BTW If it was a problem (and I don't believe it is) it isn't a problem exclusive to the perfect pistol. So to say its a problem with perfection is just silly.

World English Dictionary
problem (ˈprɒbləm)

— n
1. a. any thing, matter, person, etc, that is difficult to deal with, solve, or overcome
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Again it isn't a problem IMO. Certainly not difficult to overcome.
 
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Dictionary.com definition of prob·lem 

–noun
1. any question or matter involving doubt, uncertainty, or difficulty.
2. a question proposed for solution or discussion.
3. Mathematics . a statement requiring a solution, usually by means of a mathematical operation or geometric construction.



Miriam Websters Definition of PROBLEM:

1a : a question raised for inquiry, consideration, or solution b : a proposition in mathematics or physics stating something to be done
2a : an intricate unsettled question b : a source of perplexity, distress, or vexation c : difficulty in understanding or accepting <I have a problem with your saying that>

synonyms according to Webster:

Synonyms: case, challenge, knot, matter, nut, trouble

I do not like your grip angle "problem" or your limited difinition of the word.:eek: I do give you points for persistance though.:D
 
How can a problem be a problem if it goes away without doing anything different than normal and thats handle the weapon.
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because a problem is a problem is a problem no matter how much you deny and minimize it.
BTW If it was a problem (and I don't believe it is) it isn't a problem exclusive to the perfect pistol. So to say its a problem with perfection is just silly.
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I never claimed perfection. Glock did and you tried to perpetuate it. As you said earlier you do have to adjust back (minor though it may be) to a 1911.
IE obviously nothing is perfect all the time for everyone.
 
A gun is not a mathematical statement which "requires a solution". More of a matter involving difficulty as your definition "or matter involving doubt, uncertainty, or difficulty" states.

There is absolutely zero difficulty in the grip angle familiarity process.
 
I never claimed perfection. Glock did and you tried to perpetuate it. As you said earlier you do have to adjust back (minor though it may be) to a 1911.
IE obviously nothing is perfect all the time for everyone.
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You do realize that its a slogan.

Like a good neighbor state farm is there.......so do they live next door? Come on guys its just a slogan.

Anyway right now Glock is the closest to perfection as I can buy in a self defense gun and given my requirements. May not be for you. Thankfully we have tons of choices nowadays.

because a problem is a problem is a problem no matter how much you deny and minimize it.
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A problem isn't a problem if it isn't difficult to deal with or overcome no matter how many time you ignore it.

We are gonna have to agree to disagree or risk getting another thread shut down.
 
This may be the silliest argument I've had in a long time, but I'm stuck at home and bored to near death so I will try one more time.

As far as I'm concerned grip angles on weapons like the Glock cause me doubt, uncertainty, perplexity, uncertainty, and vexation. Not to mention dificulty accepting and uderstanding why I should go to the trouble when so many other weapons make me happier. When I add all these challanges up it seems that grip angle is a problem to me.:D
 
K_Mac,

Not to mention dificulty accepting and uderstanding why I should go to the trouble when so many other weapons make me happier.
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Get what you want. Nobody is arguing that point. What are you shooting these days anyway?
 
Threegun my handgun collection at this time is very extensive.:p I currently own a Ruger SR9c and an GP100 in .357. I shoot these and my Father-in-law's military issue Colt 1911 every chance I get.

I shot a Glock compact in 9mm and a full size in .45 before buying the SR9c. I like the Glock price and reputation. I just confirmed what I already knew; Glocks do not feel right in my hand. The S&W MP pistol worked well for me, but based on price, fit, and versatility I chose the Ruger.

Does this limited collection give me credentials enough to argue the merits of Glock verses anything else? Nope. I do not claim anything in this discussion other than that your insistence that grip angle cannot be a problem because one can adapt to it over time is a false premise. I am not an expert on handguns, but I think I have the high ground on this issue.:)
 
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