GRIP ANGLE real problem or individual choice?

At this point any angle will become natural with use.
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Wow. Just wow. You keep completely missing the entire counterpoint.

People who don't like the Glock grip angle do not want to use it in the first place.

And there is no compelling reason why they should. Short of mandatory use, the best course for people is not to adapt to that which feels unnatural, but to instead use something else that feels right to them.
 
The issue of whether people want to bother to adapt to a Glock is not nearly as bogus as your attempts to divorce grip angle from the overall feel of a handgun.
 
Microgunner, The reason you need to match grip angles is because you change what you carry like every day. Funny how that S&W bodyguard revolver pointed just fine for ya. Think you just hate Gaston Glock "the most arrogant gun designer ever". Seems if the different angle is on a new toy you just purchased then it isn't a problem LOL.

Hows the angle on that HK P7? Seems pretty steep.
 
People who don't like the Glock grip angle do not want to use it in the first place.
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Then don't use it. Nobody is compelling you.

Just feel sorry for you guys not capable of shooting anything put in your hands.
 
threegun said:
Microgunner, The reason you need to match grip angles is because you change what you carry like every day. Funny how that S&W bodyguard revolver pointed just fine for ya. Think you just hate Gaston Glock "the most arrogant gun designer ever". Seems if the different angle is on a new toy you just purchased then it isn't a problem LOL.

Hows the angle on that HK P7? Seems pretty steep.
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Nope, I don't like Gaston Glock who arrogantly proclaimed his pistols as perfection, 3 versions ago. Why need to change perfect? LOL!

My HK P7 has no grip hump.

The Glock grip hump distributes pressure unevenly over the palm of my hand. Don't like it, don't need it, ain't gonna buy it. Period.
 
Why can't you understand that fit is simply how it mates to your hand. Grip angle is corrected by the wrist and not the hand. So if the gun feels good in hand, trigger reach is proper, and a solid purchase is obtainable then you have a good fitting gun. At this point any angle will become natural with use.
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I don't think I'm the one having any trouble understanding anything.

Grip angle is a part of the way a gun fits me. If I have to bend my wrists in a manner that is not natural or is uncomfortable when shooting, then the gun does not fit me. Ergonomics extends further back than just your fingers or the palm of your hand. I'm not blaming Glock, and I'm not saying that their grip angle is wrong. I'm saying that it doesn't fit me, and that I would rather buy something else.

There is no reason to spend precious time and money forcing ones self to get used to a gun that doesn't fit them unless they themselves don't have any other option. There are other guns in the world that will go bang when the trigger is pulled, not just Glock's, and they have different ergonomics for different people.

If you like such a grip, great for you. To dismiss that people have legitimate reasons for disliking Glock's adopted grip angle--irrespective of whether they can or will adapt to it--is really the point of this thread.
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While I may not completely agree with Boats on the subject of Glocks, I have to agree with him on this. Not liking the grip angle of a gun is a completely legitimate reason for not wanting to buy or own it. Repeating over and over again that it can be adapted to does not in any way change the fact that it wasn't right for them in the first place. Some people don't care for it, and would rather buy something else instead of spending extra time and money forcing themselves to adapt to it.
 
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Just feel sorry for you guys not capable of shooting anything put in your hands.
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Who said anything about being incapable of shooting a Glock?

I greatly prefer to not shoot a Glock.

You are now officially Elliot Marsten regarding your pistol assumptions.
 
threegun and AK103K...

... you guys are pushing a bit hard on your "excuses" argument.

There are many of us who can shoot just fine with Glocks, do well on qualifications with them etc... who just do not like the way they feel, and who shoot better with other platforms.

If I were to switch over, exclusively, to Glock, then my NPOA would adapt readily enough.

But, since I have other pistols that already agree with my NPOA, and that I shoot just ever so slightly much better/faster/more comfortably, I can't see the reason to make that change and adaptation. It makes more sense to me to keep autos that have similar NPOA. (For that matter, most of mine have frame mounted, down to fire safeties.)

If either of you are in the Atlanta or Orlando areas in April, let me know, and we can get together at a range somewhere and see how badly I suck with a Glock. Either of you may be much better than I am, but I'm pretty sure I can shoot the Glock of your choice well enough that you'll knock off the "excuses" nonsense.

But I'm also pretty sure I'll do better with one of my 1911's or BHP, than I will with the Glock.
 
I hate to tell you, but Satan carries a Glock too. God just invented them, called them perfection, and now works out of Österreich. :)
 
COSteve...

... sometimes, longer fingers also have issues with Glocks.

(Once again, I actually respect Glocks, and think they work very well, especially at their price point. I just don't really like the way they fit - or don't fit - me personally.)

I have long fingers. Double-stacks are not a problem. I'm actually surprised single-stacks don't give me trouble.

Unfortunately, at least with the G30 and G21, the length and shape of my fingers puts the second knuckle of my middle finger in a spot under the trigger guard that is just plain wrong. After a few boxes of .45, I used to end up with a nice, blue bruise on that knuckle. A slightly shorter finger would have probably fit better.

Shot the G30 and the G21 well enough. Sold both. Grip angle was a slight distraction. Banging that knuckle was a bigger one.

Sorry to veer from the "grip angle," but as "fit" has also come up...

And, once again, the folks I met at and through GSSF were really nice people; the GSSF events were well-run and user-friendly; and the Glock staff I interacted with were good, too.

It's possible to respect a thing, and still find that it isn't ideal for oneself.
 
If I were to switch over, exclusively, to Glock, then my NPOA would adapt readily enough.
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I thought that was the whole point here.

I have 1911's, BHP's, SIG's, etc too, and I shoot them just as well as my Glocks, some maybe even better, from a pure "target" shooting standpoint, but now that my Glocks are basically "primary", the other guns dont point as quick (right off) as they used to. When I switched to the Glocks, same exact thing, just the other way around.

It has nothing to do with whats the better grip or angle, just whats been ingrained with what. At least thats what I see when I switch.

I really dont care what gun anyone likes or doesnt, other than to maybe yank a chain or two easily yanked chains. :) I shoot all types, and practice with all types, and its my experience that while we all have our "favorites", very rarely do I find that I'm better than the gun Im shooting, and the complaints about triggers and things are usually just excuses for lack of experience and use in reality. Im not saying a master grade shooter might not take some advantage from a super tuned 1911 trigger, just what does he do with a box stock DAO SIG he needs to pick up and now shoot with?

Probably wouldnt hear to much bitching from him though, he'd just figure it out and roll with it.
 
AK103K...

... so what you are saying is that grip angle is a surmountable problem.

I think most of us agree with that.

But just because it is surmountable, does not mean that it doesn't matter.

The degree to which it matters varies with experience and practice. Good shooters will most likely adapt faster than less experienced shooters; ironically, brand new shooters probably won't notice much difference.

But there is still some difference.

The degree of difficulty that difference poses will vary with each individual.
 
Yep. I think its easily surmountable.

As to others agreeing, I was under the impression, that was what was in dispute here. Well, that and the confusion with "grip" being part of it.

Matter really has nothing to do with it. If it matters, dont do it. :)
 
There is nothing to be "surmounted". If you started shooting Glocks and stuck with them then you would be a great shot with them. If you started shooting with 1911s and stuck with them then you would be a great shot with them. If I put a Glock in an exclusively 1911 shooter's hand it would feel foreign. If I put a 1911 in an exclusively Glock shooter's hand it would feel foreign. It isn't a gun thing. It is a you, thing. Neither one is "more natural" or "better". No one was born with a gun in their hand therefore it is impossible to say that X grip angle is superior to Y grip angle.

My first gun was a Glock 22 and I didn't get rid of it because of something as meaningless as grip angle. I could shoot it very well (it was my first gun and I wager that I can still shoot Glocks well). But I had zero problems learning the 1911 grip angle (really there wasn't anything to learn... I noticed the difference of the trigger more than anything).
 
Grip angle, and thickness is really important to me. I really dislike the 1911 type grip. Too deep, and too narrow. The CZ-75 grip is just about perfect. I like the Beretta 92 grip a lot too, but the Beretta 92 Vertec totally turns me off. I'm not a fan of checkered grips at all, but I don't mind the less "aggressive" checkering some guns have. I would much rather have grooves than checkering if I had to choose. I have one gun with pretty sharp checkering presently, and since they are "well used", I will solve that with a trip to my friend's house and a couple minutes with his belt sander.
 
If I were to switch over, exclusively, to Glock, then my NPOA would adapt readily enough.
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This is my whole point.

Seems we agree yet we disagree on the term "problem". GA is an issue not a problem.

I also don't believe that pointability is part of FIT. Since pointability is corrected with use it matters little in how a gun fits the hand.
 
Grip angle, and thickness is really important to me. I really dislike the 1911 type grip. Too deep, and too narrow. The CZ-75 grip is just about perfect. I like the Beretta 92 grip a lot too, but the Beretta 92 Vertec totally turns me off. I'm not a fan of checkered grips at all, but I don't mind the less "aggressive" checkering some guns have. I would much rather have grooves than checkering if I had to choose. I have one gun with pretty sharp checkering presently, and since they are "well used", I will solve that with a trip to my friend's house and a couple minutes with his belt sander.
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Because someone dislikes a certain grip angle over another it still doesn't make it a problem. That is a personal preference. Your money your choice. My issue is that folks, many of whom having been brainwashed by Springfields XD advertisments, have made this dislike into a "problem".
 
I'll go along with the spelling fella's Post #134.

About the only commonly used semi-auto I've not ever shot is a Sig. At one time or another I've messed with about everything in 9mm through .45.

Nothing wrong with a Glock. I bought a collection that included whichever Glock comes in .45ACP. Went to the range in my back yard and tried a couple of boxes through it. Easy hitting, but I just didn't care much for the feel. And, black plastic is aesthetically displeasing so I sold it. No big deal; okay gun but just not for me.

I've spent many, many decades with Old Slabsides. The dimensions of my hand works well with the dimensions of its handle. Ergo, I'm therefore happy with the way it works for me. YMMV.

Mostly, for me, it's a big, "So what?" when folks go to yapping about "better" and all that childish nonsense.

But as far as what might be called "natural pointing"? Georg Luger dunnit better than almost anybody else. And maybe old Sam Colt, from Navy to SAA...

The bottom line of all of this is that the best handgun is the one with which you can best hit your intended target.
 
Art, I don't think this is about better or worst grip angle. Its about whether or not grip angle constitutes a problem or simply an inconvenience. It has also sprouted a sub debate over whether or not how a gun fits should include its grip angle.

I believe that since any grip angle can easily be adapted to with mere use of the firearm, that it is not a problem. (note exceptions were made for folks with disabilities)

I also believe that fit has nothing to do with grip angle. The hump vs flat mainspring housing may effect how a gun fits. Not to be confused with how the hump vs flat mainspring housing makes the gun point. The hump vs flat mainspring housing can effect both yet the two issues are independant because the angle issue will correct itself naturally while how it fits will not.

If as microgunner stated the large hump MSH effects its fit for him because it adds pressures in areas and none in others that indeed is fit. The gun just doesn't fit him properly.

How the hump vs flat MSH makes that gun POINT is not part of its fit.
 
threegun....

... if we take this outside of just guns...

If you ride motorcycles, do you notice any difference in your personal comfort, performance capabilities, and balance, between drag bars vs monkey bars? Forward controls vs pedals more beneath you?

If you fly aircraft, do you notice any difference between side-stick, center-stick, conventional yoke, or Embraer (more motorcycle shape and boat tiller motion) yoke?

If you have a sports car, do you have a preference between upright seating (Porsche) vs steeply reclined (Corvette)?

Shapes, positions, and angles may not matter to some people. To others, they can matter quite a bit.

And whether you want to call it a "problem," an "issue," or a "factor," grip angle has its effect.

Note to Art Eatman: glad the Luger grip angle suits you. It may be optimal for you. (If it is, that would make one think grip angle might just matter, no?) However, if it were "the best" angle for the majority of shooters, one would think an awful lot more guns on today's market would use it.
 
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