GRIP ANGLE real problem or individual choice?

No. Only if you want to make that the case.
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your the one that said it. I said shooting a Glock is no problem in a non defensive situation you said it would make a difference who's hand it was in.

Part of the problem with this discussion is that it seems that there are people who don't believe that anyone's hands can be different from theirs.

One of the reasons I finally accepted Glocks (the idea of plastic guns with sproingy triggers was not at all attractive when I first looked them over) was because they pointed very naturally for me. I've run into several other guns that point well for me over the years, but the 1911 isn't one of them.
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I agree grip angle is a problem in both directions. It's also really only a problem under certain circumstances. Grip angle is not a problem if you have plenty of time to line up the sights. IE I can shoot a gun upside down looking between my wrists at the sights, pulling the trigger with my pinky and shoot tight groups given enough time (you also have to hold high). I do not concider this a defensive skill.
 
I said shooting a Glock is no problem in a non defensive situation you said it would make a difference who's hand it was in.
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You REALLY just dont get it, do you? :rolleyes: :D


The better analogy with the car would be the clutch vs automatic. If you can drive a clutch, you can drive an automatic. When you drive an automatic for awhile, and then get in the car with the clutch, it takes a very short while to reacclimate to the clutch, but its no big deal, and you just do it. Same when you switch back.

Then again, seems here, we have a lot of people who only learned to drive an automatic, and here we are, arguing why the automatic is the best. :)


ZING....ZING.... ZING...... that was about a half inch above the top knot. :D
 
The better analogy with the car would be the clutch vs automatic. If you can drive a clutch, you can drive an automatic. When you drive an automatic for awhile, and then get in the car with the clutch, it takes a very short while to reacclimate to the clutch, but its no big deal, and you just do it. Same when you switch back.
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Great analogy and spot on. what's the worst that can happen driving to the store your in your automatic and you go to stop and your left foot hits the floor looking for the clutch or you switch back and stall it out cause you forgot to push the clutch in. Not a problem when driving to Quick Trip.

But now let's put you on the drag strip and your going for pinks and you've been racing your automatic equiped Maverick all season, but this guy wants to race daily drivers. is cutting a light with the 5 speed Mustang going to be a problem?
and maybe you wouldn't look so much like Kathren Hepburn's holdin the laser if your gun pointed more naturally.
ZING....ZING.... ZING...... that was about a half inch above the top knot.
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you should know Mav Racer can take a shot ROTFLMAO
 
Speaking of clutches, a middle-aged friend sold his successful business and eventually decided to go back to work. He applied for a sales job at CarMax and made the cut to the final 50 or so. Of all of those, he was eventually one of the 3 hired.

Later on he asked the boss why they hired him; if there was something other than his 25+ years of retail experience that they liked. Yes, he was told, he was one of three who could drive a stick. ;)

Back to grip angle... Why don't professional golfers all use standard clubs? Why are their clubs made to fit them in terms of shaft length and grip/club head angle? Why can't they adjust to the average set a clubs? Aren't they good enough? :confused:
 
johnbt said:
Why can't they adjust to the average set a clubs?
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Yeah, give Tiger Woods an average set of clubs and give me a super customer fit set of clubs, I bet I beat him by 20 strokes......NOT.:D
 
I agree grip angle is a problem in both directions. It's also really only a problem under certain circumstances. Grip angle is not a problem if you have plenty of time to line up the sights. IE I can shoot a gun upside down looking between my wrists at the sights, pulling the trigger with my pinky and shoot tight groups given enough time (you also have to hold high). I do not concider this a defensive skill.
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I would wager a large sum that any normal gun owner (by normal I mean free of handicaps or disabilities) could select a defensive firearm with a completely opposite grip angle to what they currently own and become proficient enough as to not notice a difference between new and old.

After a short period of time, which depends only on how much you handle your firearm, the old defensive firearm would be the one which points off.

This has been my whole point from the beginning. If the gun fits your hand and feels good. Then GA will not matter one bit period.

This has nothing to do with ones choice, desire, likes, dislikes, etc. Nor doesn't it have anything to do with ergonomics like airplane layouts.

Please answer this specifically.

How can so many millions so readily switch back and forth from differing platforms proficiently?

Are they more talented than you? Do they posses special hands?
 
How can so many millions so readily switch back and forth from differing platforms proficiently?
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specifically because by definition readily is without difficulty or delay
since you already admit to an adjustment period in order to switch platform to return to the previous level of proficiency. It would seam to me that you yourself readily admit you can't readily switch back and forth between platforms proficiently.

Are they more talented than you? Do they posses special hands?
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nope they've just learned to adapt to a small problem in a timely manner.
 
You guys are taking examples of cars and airplanes and applying them to guns. Apples to oranges.

The difference from the 1911 and Glock is so slight that I had to draw a line on my arm from my arm thru my wrist into my hand just to notice the change. I took pictures and could see the upward bend in the line when the 1911 was being held.

Fit/feel and grip angle.....different issues

How it points isn't part of feel like many of you seem to think. Yes the awkward or different angle may temporarily cause an unnaturalness that can easily be confused with how well a gun fits and feels. However it is not part of fit or feel.

The body will make it point naturally and thus render this issue moot. If it was part of fit/feel nothing short of customization or plastic surgery could correct the issues.
 
How it points isn't part of feel like many of you seem to think. Yes the awkward or different angle may temporarily cause an unnaturalness that can easily be confused with how well a gun fits and feels. However it is not part of fit or feel.
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you don't feel your wrist rotate 6 degrees. maybe it's not you guy's with special hands but us with the special wrists.
 
It would seam to me that you yourself readily admit you can't readily switch back and forth between platforms proficiently.
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Not so. I can and have switched between platforms with little trouble. I've used two platforms at the same time. I've shot Glock 20, a 1911, and beretta 92f on the same day to practice for a threegun match. Did quite well with all three but best with the 1911 back then. My times and scores were very close. So close that I selected the Glock for the competition because I wasn't sure the layout and the number of rounds needed.

That said I am staunch in my belief that sticking with one platform is best.

Look I might be wrong on this issue but for me to be wrong I would not be able to do what I can do with so many different angles. If I am wrong millions of folks could only use one angle. If I am wrong my Glock would still be pointing high when I closed my eyes and raised the pistol then opened them again.
 
You guys are taking examples of cars and airplanes and applying them to guns. Apples to oranges.
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Naaa, its actually bananas, but we can argue that later, I got a blender. :)

The whole point, anyway you want to look at it is, youre brain and body quickly adapt and moves on without any real hand wringing, and wonderments of wonderments, youre right back on track. At least thats how I see it, and how it works for me.

Then again, I can drive a stick. :)
 
That said I am staunch in my belief that sticking with one platform is best.
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I can't argue with that as I agree. I just can't live with it as I am a gun nut and love many different platforms.
That said I beleve you've already stated that if your going to switch platforms one should keep them similar and I agree with that at least where defensive firearms are concerned. Glock is at present outside my comfort zone so to speak in part because they point high due to grip angle probably because I've spent 35 years shooting guns with straighter grips.Heck maybe my comfort zone is from 103 to 90 degrees as I have little problem going from a 1911 to a SAA. I have no doubt that I can force myself to learn to point a Glock and that my body will eventully learn that position as natural, My wrist and hand may even learn "Hey your hold'n the brick thing aim low".

However I haven't so I have a problem with the way Glocks point, Don't get me wrong though given enough time I can find the sights and shoot nice tight groups but I wouldn't do well in a IDPA/IPSC match.
Now If you have a problem with me calling my problem with Glocks grip angle a problem then you have a problem with Glocks grip angle by proxy.
and we better agree to disagree.

Then again, I can drive a stick.
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Ya but can you cut a light with one. I once went .023,.009,.017 and .011 on four consecutive runs in competition with a my 5 speed. $1000 on a fri night sweet.:D:D:D
 
Naaa, but I have gone about 120mph without a vehicle a few times. :)

ETA:..to stay on topic, there was a gun with a grip along too. :D
 
"How it points isn't part of feel like many of you seem to think."

Sure it is, it feels like it's pointing one direction but it's really pointing someplace else.

Handguns should be like shotguns... Look at the target, close your eyes and raise the gun to point at the target. Now, open your eyes. Is the gun pointed at the target with the sights or rib beads where they should be? If not, the gun probably doesn't fit you or your technique really, really, really sucks.

John
 
I have no doubt that I can force myself to learn to point a Glock and that my body will eventully learn that position as natural, My wrist and hand may even learn "Hey your hold'n the brick thing aim low".
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No Problem? LOL

However I haven't so I have a problem with the way Glocks point, Don't get me wrong though given enough time I can find the sights and shoot nice tight groups but I wouldn't do well in a IDPA/IPSC match.
Now If you have a problem with me calling my problem with Glocks grip angle a problem then you have a problem with Glocks grip angle by proxy.
and we better agree to disagree.
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Agree to disagree it is. I cannot call something a problem if it doesn't give one a problem.

In the normal course of evaluating a defensive pistol for accuracy and reliability while preparing it for duty as your carry gun, it will point perfectly by the time you holster it.

Unless you are one of those guys who slap in some ammo and let her ride.

Besides I get to say "rock out with your Glock out" not so catchy with Kimber or sig LOL
 
threegun said:
I cannot call something a problem if it doesn't give one a problem.
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Oh don't underestimate yourself:D
threegun said:
Let not grip angle concern you for it is a problem
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AK103K said:
Naaa, but I have gone about 120mph without a vehicle a few times.
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somehow I think a vehicle was maybe involved some how :rolleyes: and you ever think of seat belts they keep you from falling out ;).
 
Sure it is, it feels like it's pointing one direction but it's really pointing someplace else.

Handguns should be like shotguns... Look at the target, close your eyes and raise the gun to point at the target. Now, open your eyes. Is the gun pointed at the target with the sights or rib beads where they should be? If not, the gun probably doesn't fit you or your technique really, really, really sucks.
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Unlike the shotgun the handguns angle is easily adjusted by the wrist. The difference in the two most compared, Glock and the 1911, is 6 degrees. Such a small adjustment almost unrecognizable to the eye in pictures.
 
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