Future of the .40 cal in Law Enforcement

Good .40S&W law enforcement/protection loads...

In the late 1990s I packed a tricked out sweet 96D .40 concealed(Aker black shoulder rig).
I used the 165gr JHP rounds from Remington Golden Saber Corbon & Winchester. In the summer months/hot weather I also toted the 96D with Trition 135gr JHP.

Today, for the .40, I'd use Corbon DPX, the DoubleTap Ammo line, the Remington Golden Saber 165gr JHP, the Ranger T load or the Black Hills/Starfire 155gr JHP.
Todays .40S&W loads are a vast improvement since 1990. There are a few top picks to select now.
 
IMO, it's a compromise round between the 9mm Luger and the .45ACP.

Personally, I don't like it. I prefer to use either the 9mm or the 45.

But I'm not in the situation the police are, trying to carry effective

stopping power and a high volume, economic round at the same time.

I would say it's here to stay, even if it's not my choice.
 
The .40 S&W was all about "marketing". Just like the Glock. First rule of marketing - "tell'em what it is and then tell'em why they "need" it and why it's "better". Followed by "it's new!" and it's "tactical and radical". The same mentality that American car makers have used on the public for over 50 years is now used to sell guns and ammo. Americans love to buy stuff that offers no advantages over the old stuff. Consider that most people in this country will buy a car based more than any other factor on "styling" The .40 will fill the market until somebody comes out with a "new improved" caliber/bullet design/material buzzword. The .40 S&W was not a "solution" to anything. It was introduced simply because its size allowed it to be chambered into existing 9mm platforms (read as "saves us money to make) and can be loaded into double stack magazines. Everybody needs at least 15 rounds, right? Sure you do. If you plan on missing a lot. And our sales numbers are down so we need to come up with something "new"!:rolleyes:
 
Last edited:
You know, it's really almost comical in how the more things change, the more they stay the same.

For decades, the most popular LE cartridge in the United States was .38 Special. Many were not particularly happy with the performance of the cartridge, but anything with substantially better terminal performance usually required a larger and heavier package than what the average cop wanted to have to carry, more recoil than what the average cop could handle, or a combination of both. The next best thing available, from 1935 on, was the .357 Magnum as it did offer much better perfomance than the .38 Special loads available at the time and, while it did recoil more, could be mastered by most people with sufficient practice. The problem with the .357 Magnum was that the gun it was chambered in were large, heavy, and expensive.

Now, fast forward a couple of decades to the 1950's where two very significant things happened. First, S&W brought out the Highway Patrolman (Pre-M28) revolver which offered everything practical that their .357 Magnum (Pre-M27) did but at a substantially lower price. Also, both Colt and S&W brought out medium-frame .357 Magnum revolvers: Colt with their Three Five Seven (later to become the Trooper) and S&W with their Combat Magnum (later to become the M19). With these smaller, lighter Magnums, a policeman could finally have better performance than a .38 Special without having to pack around a bigger, heavier, more cumbersome revolver.

Over the next 20-30 years, the .357 Magnum revolver, particularly medium-frame guns like the Colt Trooper, S&W M19 and 66, and Ruger Security Six, gradually gained in popularity until the 1970's and 1980's at which point it rivalled, and possibly slightly exceeded, the popularity of the .38 Special. While certainly bigger and more powerful cartridges like the .41 and .44 Magnum had been developed, most police departments didn't view them as having significant enough advantages to be worth the extra cost, recoil, and size associated with replacing their .357 Magnums.

Now fast forward to the 1980's and early 1990's. Most police were quite pleased with the .357 Magnum cartridge particularly since JHP ammunition had become available and for good reason: the cartridge offered very good terminal performance in both the 125grn and 158grn loadings that were popular, the recoil, while brisk, was not so severe that the average officer could not master it out of a service-sized revolver, and the cartridge did not require an overly large or cumbersome gun. What the police did start to become dissatisfied with was not the .357 Magnum cartridge, but the revolver as a platform. There became a need, be it real or percieved, for a sidearm that offered greater capacity and faster reloads than what a revolver could offer. The 9mm was a well-established cartridge having been around since 1902 and had been chambered in guns that were of reasonable size and with capacities 2-3 times that of a typical revolver since the 1930's. It seemed like a natural choice and many departments, including the FBI, began switching to new, high-capacity "wonder nines" stoked full of then-new JHP ammunition.

Jump a couple of years to 1986 and we have the infamous Platt/Matix vs. FBI shootout in Miami. While the FBI made several fatal errors that lead to the disasterous and publicly embarassing shootout, they chose for whatever reason to focus on their ammunition which was 9mm 115grn Winchester Silvertips. They really could not fault the quality of the ammo as it penetrated and expanded exactly as it was designed to, but instead they decided that a loading with more penetration was called for. The first attempt at a solution was to use a heavier 147grn bullet in the 9mm. While this sounded good in theory, the relatively low velocity of such loadings combined with the rather primative JHP designs of the time lead to 147grn loadings that would not reliably expand and gave resultingly poor terminal performance (shades of the old 200grn .38 Special loadings of decades earlier).

While the issues with the 9mm would eventually be solved through better bullet technology and the introduction of the medium-weight 124-127grn loadings, such solutions were still 5-10 years away and the FBI and other LE agencies wanted something better right away. The next solution was to simply use guns in larger already-existing calibers like .45 ACP and 10mm Auto. While these cartridges did offer better terminal performance than the 9mm loadings of the time, they required a larger and more cumbersome gun than a 9mm, had severely reduced magazine capacities, or both. While .45's and 10mm's were quite popular in the late 80's and early 90's, most agencies were never quite satisfied with them.

Now we get to the introduction of the .40 S&W as it was pretty much exactly what cops were looking for. The larger diameter bullet, and correspondingly larger hollowpoint cavity, meant that the bullet could reliably expand at the velocity of the 147grn 9mm and the heavier weight meant that it could penetrate deeper than the 115grn 9mm. The smaller physical dimensions than the .45 ACP and 10mm meant that the cartridge could be shoehorned into a 9mm-sized gun and still retain the 10+ round capacity that LE agencies felt was necessary.The recoil, while brisker than that of a comparable 9mm or .45 ACP, was still mild enought that most officers could master it with sufficient practice and was still substantially less than that of a full-power 10mm Auto. Particularly with the introduction of the 155-165grn loadings, which have ballistics remarkably similar to those of the older 145-158grn .357 Magnums, it seems as though cops have finally found a semi-auto cartridge that gives the terminal performance they feel is needed in a package they feel is reasonable, essentially a semi-automatic version of the older .357 Magnum loadings.

Like the .357 Magnums before, the .40 has faced competition from newer cartridges such as .357 Sig and .45 GAP but also like the older .357 Magnums these cartridges have not offered significant enough advantage to supplant the .40 from its position of popularity. The .357 Sig, while offering some advantage in barrier penetration, is more limited in its selection of loadings, reported to cause more wear and tear on the guns it's chambered for, and just not all that dissimilar in performance to the lighter 135grn .40 S&W offerings. The .45 GAP, while offering nearly identical performance to the .45 ACP, also suffers from limited load selection and has a lower capacity than a comparable gun in .40 S&W.

All this being said, the advantages that I see to the .40 S&W are typically more applicable to LEO's than to a private citizen such as myself. With the advent of better 9mm loadings, the main advantage that I see to a .40 is superior penetration through auto glass which is mainly the concern of a cop. Likewise, I see the capacity advantage over .45 ACP as a more important factor to a LEO who is forced to use a handgun in an offensive capacity. Finally, the size and weight issues with the .45 ACP and 10mm are less important to me than they are to a cop because I'm not forced to carry the Batman utility belt in addition to my gun like a cop is. While a .40 certainly is not a poor choice for a private individual, I personally don't feel the need for one especially when I already own handguns in 9mm, .45 ACP, and 10mm Auto.
 
Future of the .40 cal in LE

advantages that I see to the .40 S&W are typically more applicable to LEO's

Given the topic of the thread, your answer means: YES. The .40 S&W cartridge is currently the leading chambering of those persons who have a professional reason to carry a sidearm." I have seen nothing in this thread to indicate it isn't, nor shouldn't be.

I own other calibers, too. I prefer the 9mm for my backup pistol - G26.
 
The .40 S&W round has established an increasingly enviable reputation in the LE field since its introduction. It's not going away any time soon. It's become the dominant caliber in the defensive handgun LE field, edging out the 9mm.

Yes, the 9mm will remain a viable choice for some, especially agencies who employ a lot of folks who may be of smaller stature or who are sensitive to felt recoil. It's still a decent choice. (Although not of diminutive stature or sensitive to felt recoil myself, I'd have been well satisfied to have finished my career carrying a 9mm in lieu of the .40 S&W and .45 ACP pistols I was issued after the 9mm was phased out for all but a handful of shooters. I was fine with the 9mm as a defensive cartridge. When it comes right down to it, though, disparate impact issues are something to be considered when equipping today's cops.)

The .45 is enjoying another resurgence of interest, this time benefiting from better ammunition selection and more pistol designs. It'll be interesting to see how the "subset" of this caliber, meaning the .45GAP, does within the next several years.

The .357SIG seems to be enjoying a distant 4th place in LE pistol & ammunition sales (from what I've been told by dealers & reps).

Personally, I won't be at all surprised to see the .40 S&W continue to garner more customers in the LE market (and more than likely within the commercial market), and for the original 180gr bullet weight load to return to being the preeminent load selected by the broad range of LE users. The lighter loads (165gr, 155gr & 135gr) enjoyed some interest among some agencies, but it appears the original 180gr bullet weight is again in the process of being discovered to offer a good balance of the attributes desired of a pistol cartridge for service use.

I came "late" to accepting the .40 S&W, myself. I'd done a fair amount of shooting with various .40's over the first 10 years of its existence, but I waited until just before I was going to be issued one for work before I felt like spending my own money on one.

Since then I've collected 4 more, looking for that "best" balance of qualities and preferences in a pistol chambered for the cartridge. While I've come close, I haven't quite arrived at that destination ... yet. "Close enough" to have some decent ones I use for training, practice and carry roles ... but I still prefer the 9mm and .45 ACP from a personal perspective.
 
I look for the .40 to last a while... it does all the service-pistol chores pretty well and would make an excellent military pistol cartridge. Time will tell if DOD gets a clue on this.
 
Although I have personally never owned a .40 nor do I have any plans at the present to ever acquire one, it has established a very good record in LE and I see no reason for that to change in the foreseeable future. Also, I personally feel like the M9 has about run it's course in the military and I think when it is replaced, it's successor will be chambered in .40.
 
Drail's post; Web's reply message...

I disagree with Drail's remarks too but Web stated what I would have added about the R&D of the .40 caliber rounds of the era(mid 1980s - early 1990s).

The .41AE, the .40Super, the .400Corbon, the 10mm etc all started because of the NEED for a mid size powerful handgun round.
Some rounds did better than others for a number of factors.
To me it's not about business & marketing.
People tend to want to keep living & breathing that's why they buy or obtain certain calibers or ammunition.
 
The difference is that the 40 was R&D'ed on the taxpayer dime, with the Bureau as its ad agency. The result is the living embodiment of that old saying about even blind hogs finding an acorn, once in a while.
 
I look for the .40 to last a while... it does all the service-pistol chores pretty well and would make an excellent military pistol cartridge. Time will tell if DOD gets a clue on this.

Military performance and Law enforcement performance are two different things since law enforcement can use hollow point ammunition and the military can't.

I'm a huge fan of the .40, but for military applications where you have to use non expanding full metal jacket ammunition, a bigger hole like the .45 is probably better.
 
DARPA; Joint Service Pistol Trials.....

I disagree with that too. :(
DARPA(DoD research) or the US armed forces could develop a new .40cal type sidearm with a high KE level(450-550 ft-lbs) and a fast muzzle vel(1200-1400 FPS). The SIG Sauer T&E of the .357sig showed that. ;)

As I've posted before, the .40Super caliber had much to offer but never really got a lot of support or + press.
The US military & spec ops R&Ded the Mk 23 .45acp AKA model 0. They could develop & field a new M9 too. It would just take time and $$$.
Beretta USA & SIG have the US military pistol contracts until about 2016. SECDEF Robert Gates said in a few military/DoD trade publications that small arms are one of projects that are not going to get any real support for awhile.
 
Funny thing though...the very best 9mm+P loads from full-sized guns have become very impressive in their own right. This is a relatively recent development, like inside the last five years or so. And the very best (Winchester's 127 Ranger-T and Federal's 147 HST) have been marketed purely to law enforcement, with "excess" only recently showing up online in reasonable amounts. Buffalo Bore's white-hot loading of the 124gr Gold Dot is also in the running.

I'm beginning to suspect that if these loads had been available circa 1988-1992 when the 40 was being developed from the "10mm lite", they'd have all stuck with the 9 and been perfectly fine with it.
The 9mm will never regain the popularity it once had because the 40s&w addresses the weakness of the 9mm; the 9mm's light weight, small diameter bullet. The 40s&w's larger diameter, heavier 180grn bullet can be launched at a higher velocity than the modern 147grn in the 9mm. The fact is that there isn't a 9mm that can compare to a 180grn 40s&w. So, as far as saying that the 40s&w is a compromise, that's nonsense.

In fact, the 40s&w in a semi-auto polymer platform is even a much better choice for law enforcement than any of the other pistol calibers; the 9mm, 357sig, 357mag, 45acp, 10mm, 41mag, or 44mag. Why? Let's look at the advantages. First, a semi-auto has a far superior grip design than any revolver's which provides much better recoil control and results in them having an inherently higher capacity, many times twice the ammo on board.

Next, let's look at the other semi-auto calibers; the 357sig, 45acp, 10mm, and smaller 9mm. The 357sig is a super high pressure 9mm round with considerable recoil and muzzle blast. It performs well only in light bullet weights and has not been deemed suitable by most police forces. The 45acp is a fine caliber with a long history of good performance, however, it's size results in pistols with low capacity or huge grips. The 10mm's performance advantage over even the 40s&w comes at the expense of a larger grip and heavy recoil many smaller shooters can't master.

Those that say that the 9mm has a lighter recoil than the 40s&w are correct when comparing the lower performance 9mm versions. However, they then argue that the 9mm+P+ can mimic the performance of the 40s&w (it can't). The funny thing is, their 9mm+P+ is a much higher pressured round than the 40s&w or even the 10mm and it produces a considerable snap for it's light bullet weight which eliminates the claimed 'faster second shot' capability of the 9mm.

No, the 40s&w isn't a compromise, its a superior caliber for law enforcement to the 9mm, 357sig, 357mag, 45acp, 10mm, 41mag, or 44mag plain and simple. That's why it has become the most popular caliber. And that's from someone who owns and shoots 357mag, 40s&w, 45acp, and 10mm. My CCW piece? A Glock G23, 40s&w loaded with Speer Gold Dot 180grn.
 
Last edited:
Auto grips are superior to any revolver grips? Maybe in your case. Thing is, most auto grip frames have to house a magazine well. Customization options are limited by that minimum geometry.

Revolver grip frames, even the full length types, require less space for the mainspring assembly than most autos require for mag well, mainspring, and possibly safety mechanism. As a result, there are far more options for customizing a revolver's grip shape and size.
 
Law Enforcement jumped on the bigger caliber band wagon of 357sig and 40s&w due to poor shot placement during a couple high profile shootouts due to poor training. Rather than fix the problem, politicians (even inside LE) decided to make the gun or the caliber the scapegoat.

Simple refresher training and more range time under the guidance of qualified instructors would have been more cost effective and put better trained officers on the street. (We just had a local incident where a guy pointed a shotgun at 3 LEOs. All 3 drew their weapons and fired. Only one bullet struck the Bad Guy -- one round in his thigh. Good thing it hurt and he gave up.)

LE will change back for some departments to 9mm for the following reasons:

1. size of the firearm for smaller persons (women & minorities),
2. cost of 9mm is like 50% - 70% of the larger calibers (important for next point),
3. there will be one or more high profile shootouts (and following lawsuits) where lack of training at the shooting range will be a major cause of injury/death to innocents and LE departments will need to increase training/practice on the range ($$$$$$),
4. there will be one or more high profile cases of shootouts with over penetration with a cry to go back to a smaller caliber with slightly less penetration (again driven by lawsuits).

It IS important what the rest of the world uses when it comes to the court room.

These decisions are usually political in nature, and once one notable LE department makes the move, everyone else follows like sheep.
 
FWIW; US Border Patrol/DHS....

For the record, the US Border Patrol, the largest of the sworn federal LE agencies has issued & used the .40S&W caliber for years. The US Border Patrol also has the highest rate of LE involved shootings(use of force incidents).
They issued the Beretta 96D, the SIG Sauer P229 DAK & the HK P2000(LEM) in the .40S&W caliber.
I HIGHLY doubt the DoJ(INS) or DHS(ICE, CBP, US Border Patrol) would keep buying or using the .40S&W if it wasn't working out well for the sworn agents.
 
Does the Border Patrol also issue other calibers?

Do they have reports on the effectiveness of a variety of those calibers used from all the experience they are collecting?
 
Back
Top