Future of the .40 cal in Law Enforcement

Here to stay

The .40, in anybody's platform, is a great compromise ctg and will be around for a long time.

More ammo in the pistol (higher capacity) than most .45's, and more cartridge by most folks standard than the 9mm.
 
I think .40 sw is here to stay too.

.40 is a great cartridge. I have a Glock 32 with an aftermarket .40 barrel and shoot it quite a bit. I started out just shooting 357sig but wanted to have cheaper ammo. From what I had seen, that was the only reason to buy a barrel but the more I shoot it the more I like it. I also have a sig 229 and a 226 in 357 sig. I really love 357sig but man, .40 is growing on me.:)
 
I used to think that .40 was going to stay. A couple months ago, the local PD just switched to 9mm again. In my little corner of the world, the .40 is history.

It's all relative to where you are.

- Hiroshi
 
Nisei (Hiroshi) said:
"I used to think that .40 was going to stay. A couple months ago, the local PD just switched to 9mm again. In my little corner of the world, the .40 is history.It's all relative to where you are."

Excuse me if you or your description said but I did not see - but where, generally, is your little corner?
 
Where I live, the state police carry the.357 Sig round in an S&W M&P. The local PD (about 1000 officers) issue the S&W M&P but in a 9mm. They do allow officers to carry their own weapons if they qualify on them and most that do so carry the venerable 45ACP round. The agency I retired from (ICE) just purchased 200 million rounds of Winchester PDX-1 bonded ammo in 40S&W and the FBI purchased 150 million rounds of it. (These figures came from a release Winchester supplied on the purchases.) While the 40 is a good round, I simply don't like the recoil of it. I much prefer shooting my 45 than my 40, but that's just me. I do think it will be around for awhile. Personally, though, I don't see the 5.7 going mainstream anytime soon.
 
I know that the Secret Service has adopted the 357 Sig (of which I am a massive fan) and not the .40SW, but could that be because of their requirements of the round due to the nature of their jobs. That they might be looking for a round that can achieve that vaunted one shot stop, where as leos may be looking for something that can incapacitate an offender, but offer the follow up power to render them lifeless if needed?

any thoughts?
 
ClydeFrog :....I saw a recent cable TV doc about the US Secret Service that stated they are now using the P90 full auto(select fire) 5.7 weapons....The USSS still issues the SIG P229R .357sig but no longer has the Uzi SMGs or the improved HK MP5s/MP5Ks.
A friend (and customer) of mine is Secret Service....I can assure you they still issue the MP5. The P90's were not popular and locally they chose to not issue them. Agents seem to prefer MP5's and M4's.
 
US Secret Service; Beltsville MD training center, P90 5.7...

I'd think the main US Secret Service HQ or maybe the training center in Beltsville Maryland would mandate or issue weapons to the field offices or duty stations.
To my limited knowledge, FBI field offices issued & used the Thompson "Tommy Gun" SMGs in .45acp up to the early 1970s. ;)

Im also surprised HK-USA didn't contract a run of .357sig caliber UMP or MP5 buzz guns. They produced a 10mm & later a .40S&W model that seemed to get a lot of support from federal agents(FBI, BORTAC, USMS, ATF, etc) and other LE tactical units.

Working cops & tactical officers I spoke to said the .45acp & .40 UMPs did very well.
 
I can see U.S. agencies switching to 9MM because of the following reasons:

1. Cost. Anyone know about the huge government budget problems lately?
2. Europe is 9MM.
3. NATO is 9mm.
4. 9MM is the global common caliber.
5. Global supply, manufacturing, and availability.

I see 9MM as the standard, and will have the appeal other agencies will conform to.

Other calibers will become a minority.

Jake
 
1. Cost. Anyone know about the huge government budget problems lately?
2. Europe is 9MM.
3. NATO is 9mm.
4. 9MM is the global common caliber.
5. Global supply, manufacturing, and availability.

Of all these the only part that matters is the cost.
LE agency's don't care if France/Germany/UK police are using another caliber. They care about only two things. First is it "effective"? And second what does it cost?

.40 cal ammo is bought by LE departments in large bulk quantity's and they do get discounts because of it. They don't care if its a "nato" round or not.
 
"Other calibers will become a minority."

Completely absurd. Law enforcement in the US does not <care> what NATO says or uses; also they will only be using ammo made in the US. Most of the time it is political, sometimes it is tide riding, rarely does it hinge on budget constraints.
 
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I know too many police officers who carry and like the .40 S&W. I think the .40 is here to stay, just like the .38 Special is here to stay. There are still some police officers who carry the .38 Special in a K frame revolver and that's a 100 year old ammo/gun combination but it still works.

Say what you will, Smith & Wesson knows how to do their homework when they introduce a new caliber. That's what nearly 160 years of experience can do for you.

I can see and appreciate the merits of the .40 but I don't own one and I don't think I need it. I would opt for either the big, heavy .45 ACP with medium ammo capacity or the high capacity 9mm with the smaller bullets but maybe I'm a traditionalist. After years of carrying a .38 snubby, I'm considering going back to the 9mm +P for the ammo capacity. I've seen too many carjacking and home invasion scenarios lately where lots of rounds were fired by both the criminals and the victims. I still plan on five or six rounds being more than enough to end a threat but just in case it isn't, I want to have 10 or 12 more chances. I've never heard of a gunfight survivor wishing to have fewer rounds in his or her gun but I have heard of panic setting in when the ammo is about to run out and there is no time to reload.

The .40 is a great caliber but in the 3rd generation Smiths for example, the 4006 is a 11+1 package in .40 S&W while the similarly sized 5906 is a 15+1 package in 9mm and it could go to 17+1 using Mec-Gar mags. That's up to six more rounds of ammo in the same basic format gun. Similar comparisons hold up with other brands. For example the Beretta is a 15+1 package in 9mm but the similarly sized Beretta 96 is a 12+1 package in .40 S&W.

We all hope that the extra rounds will never be needed but how many of us can really be sure? In reality you don't know exactly what you need until you need it.

Again, the .40 is a great round and it is here to stay but hey, 9mm +P is nothing to sneeze at, especially when using Rangers or Golden Sabers and especially when you can have more of them in your gun.
 
Sig made a huge push for the 357 sig round and that is the primary reason many agencies opted for it, (very nice round that is accurate and hits hard)

S&W M&P is making a big push for the 45 acp M&P. In my area it's gaining ground.

Most PD's in my area still carry the 40 S&W. It's a good round. It came on the scene when the 9mm ammo wasn't what it is now. The 40S&W was a solution to a problem at the time.

Right now in MASS the State Police, game wardens and Sheriff's carry 40 S&W. Boston PD carries 40S&W, Worcester (next big PD,) went with 45acp M&P. In my area mostly 40S&W, two Towns with 357 sig, and a few now have or are going to the 45acp in M&P (but this is because of S&W pushing it.)

The regional drug unit just had a failure with the 357 sig breaking apart while going through a windshield. Perp lost an eye but is alive and well and in jail. Another Town hit a guy 15x with the 357 sig and then a .223 before he went down. I know of many 40S&W shootings where the perp survived. I think all the current rounds are pretty close in performance. Quality firearm with quality ammo and training makes the difference. The 40S&W is gonna be the standard for awhile.
 
Dunno about the .40 going away anytime soon, but I do know that our department and at least the ones surrounding us all use .45's...
 
A big element we are failing to consider here is the non-LEO, non-military shooter. You know, most of us?

Many, many shooters, including myself, have chosen the .40 as their primary caliber. Look how long even niche calibers like the .41 hang on, with rabid fan bases. The .40 fan base is very large and very enthusiastic.

This round will be common at the very least for our lifetimes.
 
Gsg-9, gign, sas/sbs....

I recall reading a magazine item a number of years ago(by Leroy Thompson) about how many elite "spec ops" in NATO member countries like the German GSG-9, the French GIGN & the Italian "Leatherheads" foamed at the mouth over a few 6-8 shot S&W, Dan Wesson & Ruger wheelguns in .357magnum, .44magnum etc.
The 9x19mm or 9mmNATO is in use a lot but these LE & military units use different sidearms for different missions.

BTW: the .40S&W is also in use by many LE agencies in Canada.
 
new 9mm jhp's like federal 147gr HST sure have raised the bar for the caliber, and is my favorite 9mm load as well. :)

my favorite load in 40cal is also HST, 180gr. which expansion and penetration beats the 9mm hst due to higher sectional density.

if you look at federal's LE site, the non-bonded HST retained more weight through windshields than the bonded gold dots as well.

also, in addition to similar capacity as 9mm, the 40cal is also far less apt to yaw after passing through a car windshield.

i can't think of a reason that LE would drop the 40cal. :)


if it were up to me, i would simply offer a choice of 9mm/40cal/45acp to officers. some folks don't like the snappy recoil of the 40. different strokes for different folks ;)

personally, i would carry either a 40 or 45.
 
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^+1!

I use the 180 grain HST in my Beretta PX4. 15 shots of that round makes for a supremely confident confrontation to any threat.
 
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