FBI Raids Liberty Dollar – Confiscates All Ron Paul Dollar

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So Clover, give us some more details:

Did Ron Paul receive a flat fee of campaign donations from Liberty Bank in exchange for agreeing to allow his name and face to be used on the Ron Paul dollar? Or,

Did Ron Paul receive a campaign contribution calculated by a percentage of the income generated by Liberty Bank Ron Paul dollars?

And was it Nuthouse who wrote the campaign contribution check(s), or was it someone else in the Liberty Bank organization?
 
He didn't allow it, any more than he allowed my friend Chris to print T-shirts that read "Who is Ron Paul?" and sell them.

It's called an "independent expenditure" and the campaign does not get a cut, other than the intangible benefit of greater awareness and publicity for the campaign - the same benefit they get from Chris' T-shirt sales.

Your name-calling seems rather puerile, Fremmer, you might want to re-read the thread at the top of the Legal & Political list.
 
The OP stated that Ron Paul "agreed to it." The Ron Paul campaign itself has admitted that it received campaign contributions from Liberty Bank.

I'd just like to know the terms of the agreement, and further details about the campaign contributions -- and the influence -- that Liberty Bank exercised in relation to Ron Paul's campaign, that's all. There was obviously some type of agreement that was reached between Ron Paul's campaign and Liberty Bank.

Why not shed some light on what's really going on? :confused:
 
I agree with Manedwolf. The Constitution gives the US Government the sole right to coin the currency of the land. Why? It brings forth financial stability. Remeber your history here folks. Before the Revolution, each state, and even some cities and counties, minted their own money. Commerce was hard because of the lack of a standard currency that had a stable value. Such is why our Founding Fathers, especially Hamilton, pushed so hard for a standard currency- it fosters a stable and predictable economy.
 
I am not one of the primary people involved in Liberty Dollar Inc. But the word from the core members was that it was originally minted without his knowledge, but he was made aware of it shortly after minting started and the first medallions came in. While he can not publicly "jump in bed" with any faction such as LD, he agrees with what they would like to see done. His approval is in his quiet acceptance of the ALD, even now you will not see him condemn them. But it should also be noted that he dose not believe the ALD or anything else should take the place of real US current money. Nor dose Bernard for that matter. They just want to see US current money have a solid backing and not be a fiat currency that can collapse as soon as people loose faith in it.

Also he did accept a donation from the Liberty Dollar. But it was not a percentage of the ales, it was simply the max contribution allowed by the campaigning law. Something like a piddley $2300.00 in FRN's. I can't say whether he has any ALD's personally, but I would guess at least a few. Don't most of us...;)
 
The Constitution gives the US Government the sole right to coin the currency of the land.
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Well, it says states can't coin money, but last I heard Liberty Dollar didn't make any claim to be a state. Not that that matters much in court, force, not logic, is the soul of law.

Amusingly, the Constitution also prohibits states from "make(ing) any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts", which would tend to imply that the states are constitutionally prohibited from using US currency since we went off the gold standard.

Betcha they won't enforce THAT clause.
 
Indeed, that's how the senators and representatives in the New Hampshire legislature were turned into essentially unpaid volunteers by the Federal Reserve System - their constitutionally-mandated $250 annual salary used to be twelve and a half ounces of gold, which would be $10,000 now.
 
LOL. Allright then, at least Ron Paul's campaign was smart enough to insist that the Liberty Bank campaign contribution be in legal U.S. currency. :p

Or perhaps the campaign wasn't fooled by the "drop method." :barf:
 
He makes some good point though. Primarily that from the inception the ALD was done up essentially as a peaceful, non violent protest. But as such, and as with any protest you should be ready for some kind of consequence.

I can relate to that. Here in Wisconsin we have open carry, but no concealed carry. I carry in the open frequently. And as such get arrested on a regular basis by LEO's who just can't stand to see someone carry a gun. I carry knowing full well that at some point in time a LEO will cross the line and arrest me. Usually just claiming that although I may be exercising a right, they consider it disorderly if anyone disagrees with it. Some have gone so far as to fabricate, or at least try to fabricate charges of carrying concealed merely because the gun is in a holster. From where I'm sitting I think LD was hit for similar political reasons. I also believe Bernard thought this may happen and is ready for it. I sincerely hope they have the same success in court that I have had. It may be a few years, but the ALD's may very well come back more popular than ever if they do.
 
Now, here's an interesting question:

If there are no indictments, or findings of guilt, when does the seized property have to be returned? Or is there a civil action that the government could file to retain the property? That issue has to involve the Fifth Amendment right to due process.
 
Going through this thread, at first I was thinking "what's all this Ron Paul business?" I didn't really care one way or the other and probably would have ignored it.

I see how hard they're going after this guy, he must be doing something right. If he was just a fringe whacko, they'd go ahead & ignore him. I'm starting to see, theyre doing everything BUT ignore him. I wasn't even a Paul fan & frankly now I'm curious.

They get all frothed up at the mouth about this guy. Look at them. It's kind of silly. Just about all politicians have committed fraud, theft, (you name it) at some time in their career. When they start singling one guy out, it means he's a threat to their way of life (namely, a career of stealing, lying & more stealing).

If there was a den of thieves who got to extort money from the population every day for many years, and somebody came along and said hey, I'm gonna make it so you cant do that anymore... and it was all those thieves against just one guy... what would they do?

So maybe I'll vote for this one guy. With most candidates these days lukewarm about 2A at best, what else is there?
 
44,
By all means, gather all the info you can on him before making such an important decision. There's plenty out there on the 'net.

Back to the question at hand:
Anybody have anything to say about Title 18 USC ss 486?

And the seperate issue of mail/ wire fraud and money laundering (which was the reason given for the S&S warrant)?
Any idea of what money laundering or mail fraud was allegedly taking place? Why wasn't either supported within the affidavit?
 
taxes?

if a person were to use a ron paul dollar at a best buy retail store, how would the state recieve its tax money dued? did the person who tried to use a ron paul dollar have to pay a sales tax to purchase their ron paul dollar? was it a n even exchange - 1 US dollar for 1 ron paul dollar, or do ron paul dollars cost more than 1 US dollar per copy?
 
dwc,
For tax purposes:
The taxes are collected by the state from the retailer. The retailer automatically adds the tax to the purchase and it is collected from the customer by subtracting change due.
Same transaction for a round silver dollar as a rectangular green one.
was it a n even exchange - 1 US dollar for 1 ron paul dollar, or do ron paul dollars cost more than 1 US dollar per copy?
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Depends on who you ask.
From the one point of view a RP dollar was worth less than a Federal dollar because it contained an intrinsic value of 75% of it's face value.
From the other point of view a Federal dollar was worth less than a RP dollar because it contained no intrinsic value whatsoever.

There is no question now tho'; a Ron Paul dollar today is worth much, much more than it's face value.
 
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