FBI Raids Liberty Dollar – Confiscates All Ron Paul Dollar

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"So you're saying that because you can purchase $15 worth of silver directly from the government for $30 and exchange it for a $1 bill, that's less of a ripoff than buying $15 worth of silver from Liberty Dollar for $20 and exchanging it back to Liberty Dollar (or anybody who accepts it) for $20 or sell it on EBAY for upwards of $200?
All because you can take it to any bank and get ripped off? Something does not compute..."

They are sold as bullion coins, but all US mint coins must bear a denomination.
As currency they are worth the printed value.
As bullion they are worth the metal content.

If Liberty Dollars had been sold as bullion coins with no denomination they would be legal under any circumstances.
Of course it would screw up the hairbrained scheme to have them recognized as currency since they would bear no marking.
 
According to the affidavit for the S&S warrant, he was.
He thinks he can beat this and is looking forward to his day in court.
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So we're supposed to rally behind someone who willfully misappropriates someones likeness and identity without their consent for profit?
 
"So raising nationwide awareness of the slipping value of the fiat dollar is a 'harebrained scheme?'"

If you do it by commiting fraud it sure is.

We have a political and legal system.
Try to work within it in a legal manner.
 
Brickeyee,
What, exactly, is the "fraud" here? Maybe you can shed some light on this question since the FBI hasn't been keen on answering the question. And he (and his lawyers) believes that he *is* working within the "legal system" and that it's the government who's behavior is illegal. If his behavior is illegal, why haven't they arrested him by now?

Stage2,
Did I at some point ask you to "rally behind" anybody and I just missed it? Or was that question directed at somebody else? And AFA "profit" the guy was tooling around in a '99 Caddy and living in a suburban ranch house. Not sure that "profiting" is the most accurate word to apply here.
 
At the risk of asking a dumb question, how did the FBI come to be involved here. I've seen all manner of coinage ads from The Franklin Mint, I'm sure others have too, yet so far as I know, Franklin Mint remains in business, and they haven't been raided by the FBI, also known as The Federal Bureau of Investigastion, among other terms of "endearment".
 
Stage2,
Did I at some point ask you to "rally behind" anybody and I just missed it? Or was that question directed at somebody else? And AFA "profit" the guy was tooling around in a '99 Caddy and living in a suburban ranch house. Not sure that "profiting" is the most accurate word to apply here.
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Well, you came to this guys defense which, by implication, suggests that you agree with his actions/opinions.

Whether his hairbrained scheme (and yes it is hairbrained) actually made him money is irrelevant. The point is that he is doing this for, among other reasons, to make money.
 
This response is a non-sequitur to your last non-sequitur.

I do happen to agree with his actions and strongly disagree with the actions of the federal government in this case.
I believe that the only fraud being foisted on the public is the fiction that a Federal greenback is guaranteed by anything. I'm tired of the government ripping me off through inflation.
By all accounts the only reason his 'harebraned scheme' came under fire is because it was working.
 
"At the risk of asking a dumb question, how did the FBI come to be involved here. I've seen all manner of coinage ads from The Franklin Mint, I'm sure others have too, yet so far as I know, Franklin Mint remains in business, and they haven't been raided by the FBI, also known as The Federal Bureau of Investigastion, among other terms of "endearment"."

Cause they sell bullion coins without a denomination and do not provide instructions on tryin go pass them off as legal tender?

Just maybe?
 
Cause they sell bullion coins without a denomination and do not provide instructions on tryin go pass them off as legal tender?

Just maybe?
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Read the seizure and probable cause documents. They say nothing resembling what you just said.

"Just maybe" isn't justification for seizing (stealing?) someone's property, let alone the property of thousands.
 
“Read the seizure and probable cause documents. They say nothing resembling what you just said.

’Just maybe’ isn't justification for seizing (stealing?) someone's property, let alone the property of thousands.”


That was not the question asked.

"At the risk of asking a dumb question, how did the FBI come to be involved here. I've seen all manner of coinage ads from The Franklin Mint, I'm sure others have too, yet so far as I know, Franklin Mint remains in business, and they haven't been raided by the FBI, also known as The Federal Bureau of Investigastion, among other terms of "endearment"."
 
That was not the question asked.
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Begging your pardon, but yes it was. The question boils down to 'how did the FBI come to be involved in this'. The answer lies within the affidavit attached to the S&S warrant and as fossten correctly points out it has nothing in common with what you posited.

But even if your supposition was valid (and I stress that it's not), there are other companies out there that have been minting coins (some of them junk) identical to Federal currency complete with denomination markings who the FBI has been content to let operate. And at no point does that video instruct anybody to attempt to pass these coins off as "legal tender".

So you're incorrect on that count too.
Do yourself a favor and read the warrant.
 
but the liberty dollar, inc. web-site does. in their site, they posted instructions on how to try and use their private "money" at unsuspecting establishments. please look it up. google it. it is there. that is a deliberate attempt at defrauding local business.
assuming that your state of residence has a sales tax and you paid for your purchase in "ron paul" dollars then you have also not paid for taxes due on the transaction because i'm also willing to assume your state will not recognize "ron paul" dollars as legitimate currency. i'm no fan of taxes but they are required. like most, i believe that many of our taxes are pure pork (irs anyone?).
being that the sale of the "ron paul" dollar was not confined to just a small region or even one state but rather on a national level and instructions on how to use this so-called currency in an indiscriminate manner in "anywhere" USA, i believe that our FBI had to take action and that the action taken up to this point very lenient.
 
i believe that our FBI had to take action and that the action taken up to this point very lenient.
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Well if that doesn't say it all...:barf:

I guess "innocent until PROVEN GUILTY has no meaning for you.
 
"Do yourself a favor and read the warrant."

I have read the warrant.
What the warrant says to establish enough cause for its issuance and what the final charges may be do not have to be the same.

If the warrant is defective for cause that can be grounds to have its 'fruit' quashed at trial.

No one else minting ANY kind of coinage has published methods to have it pass as legal tender.
 
No one else minting ANY kind of coinage has published methods to have it pass as legal tender.
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I have seen the video myself. At no point does he instruct users to "defraud" anybody or attempt to pass them off as "legal tender".
If you disagree, please cite the material and provide a quote.

The specific grounds for the warrant were wire/mail fraud and money laundering. Nothing within the affidavit supports these charges even obliquely.
Again, if you disagree please cite the warrant and provide a quote.
 
please go to:
http://www.libertydollar.org/ld/spend-liberty-dollars/howtospend.htm
or just type libertydollar.org in your address bar and then select "SPEND". from there its just a matter of following the yellow brick road.

in all fairness?, the site does state to you the reader/prospective investor that their coins are not legal tender. thats the kicker though, they instruct you in how to use their "dollars" anyway by going further with their description in how to trick retailers into accepting their coins as if they were the same as cash (fed.reserve notes). they give you very explicit directions which includes an actual time frame!

take into consideration/warning - the person behind the counter may just fall for it. you have just paid for merchandise and the state's sales tax in ron paul dollars. ?!?do you feel the pride?!? you have just scammed the retailer (how do recoup the lost profit i wonder?), state (they will not accept your ron paul dollar as payment!), and your own nation all at the same time (just 1 more sucker punch ain't gonna hurt the dollar, no way!).
 
they instruct you in how to use their "dollars" anyway by going further with their description in how to trick retailers into accepting their coins as if they were the same as cash (fed.reserve notes).
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I repeat: Please provide a quote.
There is nothing in there designed to confuse anybody about anything. At no time is anybody instructed to misrepresent these as anything other than pure silver private barter currency. They even go so far (both in this and the video) as to instruct users to deliberately differentiate this from Federal currency.
 
Are you a dealer GoSlash27?

The liberty dollar site provides detailed instructions on trying to pay with the coins.

"4. Simply offer The Liberty Dollar with the confidence that it will be accepted. After all, why wouldn't it? When you offer the American Express Card, if it is not accepted, they tell you. Likewise, if the store does not accept Liberty Dollars, the cashier will tell you and you can simply pay another way."

"6. Now the hardest part - don't say anything! Just wait. Let the person marvel at its beauty, weight, and discover it says TWENTY DOLLARS. When asked "Is it real?" Answer: "Yes, one ounce of silver PRIVATE currency valued at 20 dollars." Do not rush. Just stand there and wait, patiently. No need to smile. Just wait."

"8. Never use a Silver Liberty alone unless the sale is greater than $10 and less than $20. If the total is greater than $20, include the Silver Libertys with FRNs."

Looks like instructions for fraud.
 
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