FBI Raids Liberty Dollar – Confiscates All Ron Paul Dollar
- Thread starter cloverleaf762
- Start date
- Status
It attempts to pay for goods using coins that are NOT US legal tender.
If someone tells you "That will be $15" and you hand them a fraudulent coin with a $20 marking on it I would cal the police and press charges on the spot.
They are not trying to barter.
They are trying to pass off the coins, and some of the weenies on the site have posted about their 'great success' in ripping people off.
"there are other companies out there that have been minting coins (some of them junk) identical to Federal currency complete with denomination markings who the FBI has been content to let operate."
Care to show any?
If someone tells you "That will be $15" and you hand them a fraudulent coin with a $20 marking on it I would cal the police and press charges on the spot.
They are not trying to barter.
They are trying to pass off the coins, and some of the weenies on the site have posted about their 'great success' in ripping people off.
"there are other companies out there that have been minting coins (some of them junk) identical to Federal currency complete with denomination markings who the FBI has been content to let operate."
Care to show any?
All that writing, and still nothing to support your claim of fact. So moving along....
Those coins shown in the ad are not "U.S. Legal Tender". They are not minted by the "U.S. Government". They aren't even gold. It's a fly-by-night ripoff company that's been pulling this scam in major newspapers (including USA Today) for a long while now. No FBI action despite all the complaints.
The World Reserve Monetary Exchange is an obvious example. I just figured I'd post it again since you apparently didn't read it last time
Those coins shown in the ad are not "U.S. Legal Tender". They are not minted by the "U.S. Government". They aren't even gold. It's a fly-by-night ripoff company that's been pulling this scam in major newspapers (including USA Today) for a long while now. No FBI action despite all the complaints.
i took a little more time and reviewed libertydollar.org. again and what i came away with was that its a pyramid scheme to boot. i can only afford to look at this site a little at a time before getting nauseous.
go to the "RCO" tab and read the info. it begins to describe the processes of setting up your very own distribution network. they recruit you and you in turn, recruit another who can in turn, recruit another. this liberty dollar deal is....well, unbelievable. everybody contibuting to this thread should take some time out and visit this site. read some of the info and think about who is really benefiting from the distribution of these wooden nickels. i know, i know....they are really shiny. sorry, just joking. but seriously....it is presented like a get rich quick scheme.
go to the "RCO" tab and read the info. it begins to describe the processes of setting up your very own distribution network. they recruit you and you in turn, recruit another who can in turn, recruit another. this liberty dollar deal is....well, unbelievable. everybody contibuting to this thread should take some time out and visit this site. read some of the info and think about who is really benefiting from the distribution of these wooden nickels. i know, i know....they are really shiny. sorry, just joking. but seriously....it is presented like a get rich quick scheme.
Those instructions sure read like a scam to me; if I was some kid working the register and some ass passed off a "$20" coin as federal issue US Dollars - and I had to cover it or get fired for it - I would be pissed. Screw EBay and their value there - that is not an issue if they are not passed off as just that - a possible alternative way for an enterprising lad to make some money - on EBay.
You want to barter with them - fine - just be truthfull about it.
You want to barter with them - fine - just be truthfull about it.
This is really simple. The federal government is the only entity that can legally issue money at a higher face value than what the actual value of the material is.
This guy was coining $20 silver pieces. By doing that he is coining money and illegally so because the value of the particualr coin may be more or less than $20 depending on the value of silver on the open market.
Add to that the fact that mr nuthouse personally advocated passing these off as actual money and you have several violations of the law.
If this guy was perfectly fine with misappropriating someones identity for profit then fraud isn't something that out of the realm of possibilities.
This guy was coining $20 silver pieces. By doing that he is coining money and illegally so because the value of the particualr coin may be more or less than $20 depending on the value of silver on the open market.
Add to that the fact that mr nuthouse personally advocated passing these off as actual money and you have several violations of the law.
If this guy was perfectly fine with misappropriating someones identity for profit then fraud isn't something that out of the realm of possibilities.
This is an aggressive multi-level marketing program (pyramid scheme), as described on pages 10-11 and 14-16 of the seizure warrant.
$us250 cost for new membership and 5 $ld20 coins
----
$us 70 spot silver at $us14 per coin x 5 $ld20 coins
$us 15 fabrication & overhead for 5 coins
$us 15 to Regional Currency Officer
$us100 fee to referring member
$us 50 membership fee to HQ
Further on, it looks like there may be some fun with the denominator for the paper and electronic money accounts. Page 24 of the seizure warrant notes that "The Sunshine Mint maintains $50.00 base ALD coins and other precious metal holdings that back the warehouse receipts in addition to the Mint's Safekeeping account." Now that's sweet; a one-ounce silver coin denominated at 50 Liberty Dollars is "on deposit" to cover the paper and electronic obligations that originated with a one-ounce coin being 20 Liberty Dollars.
Actually, the Liberty Dollar folks are no more than common for this genre.
These people are extreme; they want you to sign over all of your worldly goods to participate in their private currency scheme.
$us250 cost for new membership and 5 $ld20 coins
----
$us 70 spot silver at $us14 per coin x 5 $ld20 coins
$us 15 fabrication & overhead for 5 coins
$us 15 to Regional Currency Officer
$us100 fee to referring member
$us 50 membership fee to HQ
Further on, it looks like there may be some fun with the denominator for the paper and electronic money accounts. Page 24 of the seizure warrant notes that "The Sunshine Mint maintains $50.00 base ALD coins and other precious metal holdings that back the warehouse receipts in addition to the Mint's Safekeeping account." Now that's sweet; a one-ounce silver coin denominated at 50 Liberty Dollars is "on deposit" to cover the paper and electronic obligations that originated with a one-ounce coin being 20 Liberty Dollars.
Actually, the Liberty Dollar folks are no more than common for this genre.
These people are extreme; they want you to sign over all of your worldly goods to participate in their private currency scheme.
GoSlash27 (???) emotes:
You have been vociferously wrong more than anyone I've come across, here or in real life.
Please see 18 U.S.C. § 486.
Everybody watch him crawfish. Again, Paul supporters...where's the integrity?
You have been vociferously wrong more than anyone I've come across, here or in real life.
Please see 18 U.S.C. § 486.
Everybody watch him crawfish. Again, Paul supporters...where's the integrity?
quote from the source cited by our resident serial flamer
So where does this say that
At least you were interested enough to research the relavant law instead of making it up tho'. Seeing as how I posted it several pages back you're a little late, but still at least you're trying, so kudos.
This is the center of the whole dispute. It has nothing to do with fraud or money laundering and everything to do with this (and SS489 although they're no doubt painfully aware that this will never stick). The Feds dispute the interpretation with Von Nothaus and his lawyers and unfortunately for them have yet to get a ruling supporting their view (which, not incidentally, is why he's still on the street).
They have gone after him repeatedly for this but keep getting shot down.
So where does this say that
At least you were interested enough to research the relavant law instead of making it up tho'. Seeing as how I posted it several pages back you're a little late, but still at least you're trying, so kudos.
This is the center of the whole dispute. It has nothing to do with fraud or money laundering and everything to do with this (and SS489 although they're no doubt painfully aware that this will never stick). The Feds dispute the interpretation with Von Nothaus and his lawyers and unfortunately for them have yet to get a ruling supporting their view (which, not incidentally, is why he's still on the street).
They have gone after him repeatedly for this but keep getting shot down.
You better check into that again.
They are selling $12 worth of coins for $20 and throwing in an extra loose coin.
As you can see at the link below thay are real legal tender, made by the US Mint.
http://www.usmint.gov/mint_programs/$1coin/index.cfm
When you are wrong you are REALLY wrong.
The constitution has been interpreted as granting the EXCLUSIVE right to mint coins and print money as the province of the Federal Government.
If you do not like the Federal Reserve System, you should come up with another system and lobby Congress to adopt it.
Keep in mind there is not enough precious metal in the world to support our economy as legal tender.
They are selling $12 worth of coins for $20 and throwing in an extra loose coin.
As you can see at the link below thay are real legal tender, made by the US Mint.
http://www.usmint.gov/mint_programs/$1coin/index.cfm
When you are wrong you are REALLY wrong.
The constitution has been interpreted as granting the EXCLUSIVE right to mint coins and print money as the province of the Federal Government.
If you do not like the Federal Reserve System, you should come up with another system and lobby Congress to adopt it.
Keep in mind there is not enough precious metal in the world to support our economy as legal tender.
brickeyee,
Right back atcha. I wouldn't have posted it if I didn't know what I was talkin' about.
http://www.fatwallet.com/forums/arcmessageview.php?catid=24&threadid=730129
The ones being "issued" by these folks are cheap fakes, although it's hard to tell by the advertising. Amazing that they're allowed to get away with it.
Right back atcha. I wouldn't have posted it if I didn't know what I was talkin' about.
http://www.fatwallet.com/forums/arcmessageview.php?catid=24&threadid=730129
The ones being "issued" by these folks are cheap fakes, although it's hard to tell by the advertising. Amazing that they're allowed to get away with it.
Apparently you're not the only one. This legal distinction is the heart of the dispute between the government and NORFED.
Is the defining clause in SS 486. The Treasury says that it includes "Voluntary Barter currency". Von Nothaus and his lawyers say otherwise. And so far the courts have been on Von Nothaus' side, which perhaps explains why he and his "co conspirators" still haven't been arrested. He's been doing this for 9 years running now and has yet to be arrested despite his flagrant nose-thumbing, suits for injunction, and even his latest class-action suit.
And whatever side you happen to fall on in this interpretation (I personally side with the FBI's interpretation although I don't support the law itself), it still has nothing to do with mail/ wire fraud or laundering, which are the grounds cited in the S&S warrant but totally unsubstantiated by the affidavit.
On this part I wholly side with NORFED. The raid appears to have no legal basis whatsoever.
Sure. Its right in front of your nose.
To coin money, regulate the value thereof, and of foreign coin, and fix the standard of weights and measures;
If the us mint decides to issue a $20 gold coin its worth is $20, but depending on the price of gold it may be worth a bunch more. Should the price of gold drop to nothing, the actual value of the coin will be nothing, but the practical value will still be $20 and I can walk into anywhere and purchase $20 worth of stuff.
You boy has created $20 coins, which in itself is questionable, but by assigning them a dollar value he has totally opened the door to fraud since the value of these coins can potentially drop to less than what is marked on their face.
If anyone but the government does this, its fraud.
I'd love to see some case law supporting this because the statute in question doesn't say anything about legal tender.
Whoever, except as authorized by law, makes or utters or passes, or attempts to utter or pass, any coins of gold or silver or other metal, or alloys of metals, intended for use as current money, whether in the resemblance of coins of the United States ...
Its beyond any reasonable doubt that nuthouse intended people to use these coins as current money. The fact that he made them to resemble US coins isn't even required. Its just another strike against him.
"Right back atcha. I wouldn't have posted it if I didn't know what I was talkin' about.
http://www.fatwallet.com/forums/arcm...hreadid=730129
The ones being "issued" by these folks are cheap fakes, although it's hard to tell by the advertising. Amazing that they're allowed to get away with it.":
Still not what the link says.
They are talking about the fact that the company is chargining $88 for $50 worth of real US dollar coins.
They are NOT fake, they are just goading fools into paying extra for 'uncirculated' coins.
Do you actually read the sites you post?
You do now that an initial batch of the dollar coin got out without the edge printing?
http://www.fatwallet.com/forums/arcm...hreadid=730129
The ones being "issued" by these folks are cheap fakes, although it's hard to tell by the advertising. Amazing that they're allowed to get away with it.":
Still not what the link says.
They are talking about the fact that the company is chargining $88 for $50 worth of real US dollar coins.
They are NOT fake, they are just goading fools into paying extra for 'uncirculated' coins.
Do you actually read the sites you post?
You do now that an initial batch of the dollar coin got out without the edge printing?
- Status