FBI Raids Liberty Dollar – Confiscates All Ron Paul Dollar

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coolhand,
Do you think that the blip in cpi, that you illustrate from 1914-1920; just might have something to do with a tiny incident called WORLD WAR 1???:D:p

Whats your point? That current fiscal policy is sound? Please elaborate.

I'm recalling similar threads in which someone would post "the bad old days", in which graphic descriptions of cholera epidemics, polio, infant death, etc...contrasted with our higher modern life expectancy; was somehow a justification of giant government, and higher taxes!!! Is that what you're getting at?
 
Do you think that the blip in cpi, that you illustrate from 1914-1920; just might have something to do with a tiny incident called WORLD WAR 1???

Whats your point? That current fiscal policy is sound? Please elaborate.
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If WWI was responsible for US inflation in the period 1914-1920, then certainly WWII, Korea, Vietnam and general Cold War spending was responsible for US inflation from 1947-1992.

My point is that severing the US dollar from the gold standard was beneficial to economic growth. And when you consider that Americans can freely own gold coinage again, we have the best of all worlds.

Current fiscal policy is a train wreck. Our monetary policy, up until Greenspan's departure, was sound.
 
If WWI was responsible for US inflation in the period 1914-1920, then certainly WWII, Korea, Vietnam and general Cold War spending was responsible for US inflation from 1947-1992.
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Uh-huh. You might note that the US and Great Britain temporarily decoupled their currency from gold during WW1. And of course war is the reason for separating the two.

My point is that severing the US dollar from the gold standard was beneficial to economic growth.
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Please elaborate and support.

Our monetary policy, up until Greenspan's departure, was sound.
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Greenspan didn't seem to think so.
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Sen Bradford- "is it your intention that the report of this hearing should be that Greenspan recommends a return to the gold standard?"
Greenspan- 'I've been recommending that for years, there's nothing new about that."
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I might also add that somebody up-stream griped about them maintaining copper reserves while ammo prices are going through the roof?

The inflation (devaluation of the dollar) is exactly the reason why your ammo is getting more expensive. We've got to import the metals to make ammo (or import the ammo pre-made). Guess what a weak dollar equates to in the international market?
 
You can post a million charts about the value of LEGAL U.S. Currency.

You can argue forever about the value of LEGAL U.S. Currency.

None of it changes the fact that Ron Paul "agreed" to allow his face and name to be used for the Ron Paul dollars. The Liberty Bank used Ron Paul's face and name in a fraudulent scheme to pass off FAKE Ron Paul dollars as LEGAL U.S. currency.

That's what the Liberty Bank was doing: it was "circulating" the FAKE Ron Paul dollars in the chain of interstate commerce. It was advising people how to present FAKE Ron Paul dollars as payment in the form of LEGAL U.S. currency for goods and services.

The FAKE Ron Paul dollars are not LEGAL U.S. currency. Presenting the FAKE Ron Paul dollars as genuine LEGAL U.S. currency constitutes fraud. And it was illegal. Which is why the FBI took action to protect the general public from being ripped-off by the FAKE Ron Paul dollars.

Edited to add: when is the Ron Paul campaign going to return the Liberty Bank campaign contributions? Even Hillbama gets rid of their illegal contributions when they get caught. Or is the Ron Paul campaign going to keep the tainted contributions that they generated as a result of this fraudulent scheme?
 
Fremmer: there seems to be a bit of mix-up in your choice of words: it's not fraudulent RP Dollar, it's real RP Dollar. It would've been a fraudulent USD if anybody tried to pass it for such. Did anybody actually try to make a bank deposit with LD trying to pass it for USD? Did anybody ever claim that it was USD? I don't think so. Saying that it's better is not the same, and may be factually accurate - just like saying that about gold bullions.

I asked few questions above - without much feedback. Paying with Liberty Dollars, or gold, or silver, or pencil shavings for that matter, is perfectly legal - as long as both parties are fully aware of the form of payment that is being utilized and consent to that form.

Couple of bold predictions: 1) Feds will lose this case, 2) they will lose it many years from now, after the elections, when it won't matter any longer and 3) full amount of assets seized will not be recovered.
 
Yeah, all that "fake" .999 fine silver. How offensive.

He didn't "agree to allow" his face and his name, any more than he "agrees to allow" someone to spray-paint "Google Ron Paul" on a bed-sheet and string it from a tree.

It's called an "independent expenditure" in campaign finance law, look it up.

The Liberty Dollar people did not consult with him or inform him about their project.
 
Another poster has already shown you the "hints" from Nuthouse about how you can pass-off the FAKE Ron Paul dollar as REAL U.S. currency when you pay for goods or services.

Now the hardest part - don't say anything! Just wait. Let the person marvel at its beauty, weight, and discover it says TWENTY DOLLARS.
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That is called fraud. No matter how you attempt to spin it.

It doesn't sound like Ron Paul's campaign is going to attempt to distance itself from the scheme by returning (or even donating Hillbama-style) the campaign contributions received from Liberty Bank. But why would it? After all, the OP has already admitted that Ron Paul himself "agreed to it."

I suppose that, to Ron Paul's campaign, a little bit of fraud never really hurt anyone. Well, other than those businesses who were suckered into accepting a FAKE Ron Paul dollar that, once again, is not LEGAL U.S. currency.
 
GoSlash27
After reading your posts and opinions on this forum, I have come to the following conclusion.
Based upon what you have said, no reasonable, thinking American would consider voting for Ron Paul to be "Head Towel Boy" at a New Orleans cat house, let alone President of the United States. This imbicile has lent his name and position to what appears to be nothing more than a money making scam, if not actually an attempt to overthrow the monetary system of this country. That sir, borders on Treason.
So, if I may alter your bumper sticker a bit:
SHOW PAUL THE GATE IN 2008
 
The monetary system of this country was overthrown decades ago - "No State shall make anything other than gold or silver coin tender in payment of debts."
 
Fremmer, please. It's not fake Ron Paul Dollar. It's real Ron Paul Dollar - not to be confused with real, completely different, US Dollar. I must insist, for the sake of factuality, and capitalizing word "fake" doesn't make it such. No matter how you spin it, I don't see anybody confusing the two - whereas I totally understand folks admiring and buying those fancy pieces of gold, and even considering them a better investment than USD.

By the way, where does it put antique coin collectors and international currency exchanges? Last I heard, circulation of euros isn't prohibited in US, they are just not enforced for admission by banks, just like LD. If problem is with word "dollar" in the name of the currency - well, there is also Canadian Dollar and Australian Dollar. Hey, they even have numbers on them!
 
a little disappointed...

...that some folks on this board are so quick to condemn these folks as fring wackos. That may be what they are, but at least they're taking a crack at whittling down the government to a more constitutional size.

To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;

To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current Coin of the United States;
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Read that critically and tell me how you can construe it as meaning a private, domestic currency, meeting any standards of weight/measure for metal purity, and obviously not counterfeiting the current federal tender, to be illegal. I'm not a constitutional scholar, but I can tell you that private bank produced currency was commonplace, and I doubt the framer's intent was to quash other currencies, but merely to provide for a natioanl standard currency.

The inflation (devaluation of the dollar) is exactly the reason why your ammo is getting more expensive. We've got to import the metals to make ammo (or import the ammo pre-made). Guess what a weak dollar equates to in the international market?
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Yes. Heck, if we used copper based currency, the cost of ammo would hardly ever fluctuate....:cool:
 
not to be confused with real, completely different, US Dollar
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To the contrary, the Ron Paul supporters are presenting it as legal US currency in payment for goods and services. Without informing the payee that it is not LEGAL U.S. currency. The Ron Paul dollar is designed to look like legal currency. Moreover, the Liberty Bank provided specific instructions about how to present the FAKE Ron Paul dollar as LEGAL U.S. Currency when paying for goods and services. So let's stop pretending that this is anything other than a fraudulent scheme to rip people off. Incidently, it appears that the United States Department of Justice and the United Stated Federal Bureau of Investigation agree with that. The scheme was becoming so pervasive that the United States Department of the Treasury had to issue a warning about the Ron Paul dollar scheme.

Millions of dollars of FAKE Ron Paul currency have been put into circulation to defraud businesses and individuals. What a rip-off! And this is who Ron Paul receives monetary support from?!? This is what Ron Paul agreed to?!? What kind of judgment does that show? When the FBI is raiding the offices of your supporters, it is time to take a hard look at who you accept support from, and with whom you align yourself. This is not the kind of press that will help the Ron Paul campaign; to the contrary, it makes the Paul campaign look looney, especially when we hear about "fake government money" and all of the conspiracy theories, which are simply weak excuses designed to cover a fraudulent scheme that used Ron Paul's face and name.
 
you keep capitalizing and writing in bold... Let me assure: most folks here can read in plain lowercase, if they disagree the problem is not with the font. Yet again, it's not fake Ron Paul Dollar, it's real Ron Paul Dollar - not to be confused with real US currency. I hear you that it was designed to look like US currency, but have my reservations. I don't see it resemble US dollar any more than Canadian Dollar resembles it, do you?
By the way, I hear that they are currently selling for more than face value. For an owner, it's a very pleasant way to be defrauded, don't you think?
 
Defecit spending is simply a scheme for the confiscation of wealth. If one grasps this, one has no difficulty in understanding the statists' antagonism toward the gold standard.
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Alan "fringe looney" Greenspan
 
Excuse number one:

I don't see it resemble US dollar any more than Canadian Dollar resembles it, do you
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I've never seen a Candadian dollar that contains the word "USA". And I've never seen the Canadian government provide helpful hints about how Canadian dollar can be fraudulently passed off as legal US currency.

Excuse number two:

I hear that they are currently selling for more than face value. For an owner, it's a very pleasant way to be defrauded, don't you think?
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But the unsuspecting person who received the fake Ron Paul dollar doesn't want silver; they want LEGAL U.S. currency. They don't want to have to go to a silver merchant, pawn shop, or coin collector to try and sell a Ron Paul dollar that's been in circulation. That's the point: what was represented as LEGAL U.S. currency is not, so they got ripped off.
 
Fremmer,
At some point you should actually review the affidavit and cited statutes.
They have not been charged with attempting to pass off Liberty dollars as "legal US currency" as you keep insisting.
There have been no complaints of fraud (nor citations of potential fraud) brought forth.
The one statement from a "victim" within the affidavit:
Karen Griffin, owner of the 'Gourmet Perks' restaurant in Asheville, started accepting payment in the (liberty) dollars about a year ago as a way of promoting her business. She admitted, however, that not many customers come in with them.
"It gets my name out there in a different market", said Griffin, who has not used Liberty Dollars personally.
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Oh, the horror. :rolleyes:

What I'm saying is at least take the time to research the case before you work up your indignation. It'll keep you from looking foolish in the future.

(edit)
From the article in SignOnSanDiego posted up-stream:
“They're running scared right now and they had to do something,” von NotHaus told The Associated Press Friday. “I'm volunteering to meet the agents and get arrested so we can thrash this out in court.”

Wendy Osborne, a spokeswoman for the FBI's Indianapolis office, declined to comment and referred all questions to the U.S. attorney's office for the Western District of North Carolina. Suellen Pierce, a spokeswoman for that office, also declined to comment.
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That about sums it up.
 
Yeah, GOSlash, myself, and the FBI, and the Department of the Treasury, we all look foolish because Ron Paul agreed to allow his face and name to be used in a fraudulent scheme. :rolleyes:

Hopefully, the Nuthouse will be indicted soon, and then we'll actually know the specific facts demonstrating the fraud. For now, we'll have to rely on the OP's admission that Ron Paul "agreed to it", the instructions by Nuthouse on how to defraud people by passing off the FAKE Ron Paul dollars as legal US currency, and the warning issued by the Department of the Treasury about attempting to use the FAKE Ron Paul currency as legal U.S. currency.
 
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