FBI Raids Liberty Dollar – Confiscates All Ron Paul Dollar

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i agree

...and for them to make the claim that their "money" was as good as or better than federal currency was a bogus, misleading, and in my opinion a criminal offense and that it required intervention on the federal level.
 
pardon me...

allow me to clarify...the implication that their "money could be used in lieu of federal currency is a criminal offense.
 
They never claimed that their certificates or gold/silver/copper rounds were legal tender. They are all negotiable securities. Places are free to accept or decline. Unlike legal tender that they must take. Any individual making the claim that ALD's were legal tender or US money would be committing a multitude of crimes, but after reading all the documents made public with this case the government never claimed NORFED did anything of the sort. That nobody has been arrested speaks volumes about solidity of the government’s complaints.
 
Please someone explain it to me. As long as there is mutual consent between parties, I can legally pay, or be paid for goods and services in: gold, silver, stocks of a company, disney dollars (I don't have to agree to be paid in those, but if I do - hey, it's my problem, I can do that outside of Disney as well), keyboards, deer horns, jars of honey, empty glasses, post stamps, or drawing pencils. Difference between those items and US $$$ is that they don't have to be accepted by banks and merchants - much like Liberty Dollar. So, what's the grudge? Why is it being taken out of context of private transactions between consenting parties? It's just a piece of metal afterall; it has a number on it, but that number doesn't mean much for perceived value: it currently sells for much more than that. Collectors items like medieval coins also aren't US currency; they, too, have numbers on them that also don't mean much in terms of coin value. Banks won't accept them, but they can be used as exchange material between consenting parties - just like LD.

People keep throwing names like "counterfeit" and "fake".. Why, did anybody ever try to pass LD for a USD?? I'm having hard time seeing anybody trying to do that or falling for it.
 
and for them to make the claim that their "money" was as good as or better than federal currency was a bogus, misleading, and in my opinion a criminal offense and that it required intervention on the federal level.
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Please study these graphs, and possibly reconsider your assertion, highlighted above. Better yet, provide some factual, historical data supporting the alleged "goodness" of federal reserve notes. :p

exchange.gif


inflation.gif
 
They never claimed that their certificates or gold/silver/copper rounds were legal tender.
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Yes he did, in the video posted earlier when the cashier asked what it was he said it was "the new $10 silver piece" He implied that it was legal tender with that statement.
 
Seems to me YOU think he implied it. To me he stated a fact. He never said the new US $10.00 silver piece, or anything that would make it a statement that it was from the US government.
 
Liberty Dollars were claiming that you could use their money anywhere and that is where the problem lays IMHO. The comparrisons are not valid.
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You can use it anywhere it's accepted. Did you notice the town in Arkansas where half of the businesses in town accept them?

Are these guys next on the list?

Downtown_Dollars_-_front_op_800x304.jpg
 
Once again those buisnesses agreed beforehand to accept that form of payment. It is not the same thing as trying to spend Liberty dollars and it doesn't matter how many times you try to spin it. Liberty did not have a list of businesses that would accept them as payment. You are trying to compare apples to oranges but its not working.

Did you also see where if the agreed upon business accepts that as a form of payment that it then needs to contact the ADDA for re-imbursement. Again its apples and oranges to what liberty was trying to accomplish.
 
Once again those buisnesses agreed beforehand to accept that form of payment. It is not the same thing as trying to spend Liberty dollars and it doesn't matter how many times you try to spin it. Liberty did not have a list of businesses that would accept them as payment. You are trying to compare apples to oranges but its not working.
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In fairness it's been reported that they did have a list of businesses that would accept them, but they also encouraged people to pass them at other businesses and provided instructions for how to do it.
 
The goal of Norfed is to undermine the United States goverment's financial systems by the issuance of a non-governmental competing currency
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That's what they did when they "circulated" millions of Ron Paul dollars. They designed fake Ron Paul money that was designed to appear as legal currency issued by the Government.

And Ron Paul "agreed to it."
 
hammer4nc wrote:
Please study these graphs, and possibly reconsider your assertion, highlighted above. Better yet, provide some factual, historical data supporting the alleged "goodness" of federal reserve notes.
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How do you explain the steep drop your charts show from 1959 to 1971?

The US didn't disconnect Federal reserve notes from gold until 1971.

And how do you explain the steady rise in American's standard of living, adjusted income, and adjusted purchasing power during the period from 1959 to today?

Here's the more important graph: Real (inflation adjusted) median family income has doubled since 1959.

SWA06_Fig1D.jpg

http://www.stateofworkingamerica.org/tabfig_01.html
 
I can imagine a business owner whose employee had been suckered by this scam: the owner would possess non-legal currency that will not be accepted by the bank for deposit. So the business owner got ripped off: he provided goods and/or services in exchange for non-legal tender. The liberty dude may think that that his scheme to pass off the fake Ron Paul currency as legal US currency it is funny or cute or whatever, but I'll bet those who have been scammed didn't think that it was funny at all.
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If anybody here has any Ron Paul dollars you'd like to exchange at face value for goods and services, please PM me.
 
BTW, I love how certain people are throwing around their accusations without having bothered to check the legal statutes or the affidavit. :)
 
The US didn't disconnect Federal reserve notes from gold until 1971.
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^A wee bit misleading, isn't it?
1913-Federal Reserve System established
1933- Gold nationalized and gold-based contracts abrogated.
1944- Bretton Woods system established (depleting gold holdings until it was impossible to redeem FRNs for gold)
1971- Dollar officially disconnected from gold.

r_cpiu.png


Funny that prior to 1933 we had 100 years of zero inflation.
 
That nobody has been arrested speaks volumes about solidity of the government’s complaints.
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Precisely. More to the point, the decision to stage this raid speaks volumes about the prospects of the government's legal case, had they faced an opponent with the cash flow to pay for legal representation. This sort of thing is a sadly not unknown desperation ploy. Even more sadly, it tends to work.
 
how do you explain the steady rise in American's standard of living, adjusted income, and adjusted purchasing power during the period from 1959 to today?
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I'm not an economist or even a hobbyist, but the standard of living has been used in discussions to excuse all manner of government expansionism, which may be unrelated. My general explanation is that the standard of living, and productivity has risen in spite of irresponsible fiscal policies, primarily based on technological inventions. A number of troubling trends underly the rise in household income; most notably the advent of two-income households, dissolution of the nuclear family. Arguably, a number of social ills can be tied to this particular trend, which may be outside the scope of this thread. Finally, imbedded in the current fiscal landscape are at least a couple of timebombs that have been shamelessly swept onto future generations through federal accounting misdirection: social security and healthcare entitlements, which are disasters waiting to happen, generally agreed to be the height of irresponsible management (although you're invited to make the argument that these schemes are beneficial and sound ;)). So, the rise in std of living may be illusory, and not a product of the federal reserve practices, though you're invited to argue otherwise.

I'd summarize your graph with the statement: bread and circuses. Translated: As long as Joe sixpack can borrow enough to get his big-screen TV, all is well.

Back on topic, the apt comment is made that "Federal Express" is not prosecuted for pretending to be a branch of the the federal government. They exist as an alternative, and arguably have spurred innovation in the USPS. Likewise, the liberty dollars exist as an alternative to federal reserve notes, for those who anticipate further erosion of value. Notably absent in this assault, are the pleadings of those who have been actually harmed by the liberty dollar project. With millions of liberty dollars in circulation, you'd think that fedgov would be highlighting cases of individuals who have been financially damaged thusly. These cases are strangely absent. :confused:
 
The flap may be over a legitimate concern that the dood was doing something which was honestly against the law (stay with me for a second). Then again it could be said the federales could not tolerate hard money competition at a time when the US dollar is at an all time low with no evidence on the part of the federales to salvage it. One could say the federales are protecting the sanctity and value of the dollar and will tolerate no competition from any source.

Then there is the wild-eyed conspiratorial advocates who see the Amero on the horizon and it is necessary to tank the dollar to "encourage" the shift to the Amero. They Say a viable (though voluntary) hard metal currency will just confuse things when the changeover occurs.

Drum roll, please! And now we have someone who claims to have actual samples of both professional artist renditions of the Amero and an actual genuine sample fresh from the Denver mint. This appears to be distinct from an artist's previous collectible coin.

http://www.halturnershow.com/AmeroCoinArrives.html

Yeah, I know. Nutjob alert. Photos of the "actual" coin are half way down the page.
 
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