Creek Henry
New member
Bullet technology has really pushed the 9 as far as lethality. Ball ammo and low end hollowpoints are not what the FBI will use.
FBI is officially moving back to 9mm. Awesome.
- Thread starter Uncle Malice
- Start date
Malcolm Reynolds
New member
Yet to see a real document on this
I keep hearing this rumor but no one seems to be able to share a link to any legitimate news article or press release about it.
On the other hand, Military.com has written multiple times on the Army's interest in moving AWAY from the 9mm.
I don't share that to argue for or against the .40. I'm pretty sure the Army is interested in the .45, actually.
I keep hearing this rumor but no one seems to be able to share a link to any legitimate news article or press release about it.
On the other hand, Military.com has written multiple times on the Army's interest in moving AWAY from the 9mm.
I don't share that to argue for or against the .40. I'm pretty sure the Army is interested in the .45, actually.
seeker_two
New member
The FBI agents should carry a single-stack 9mm (Shield, LC9, etc.) for the same reason that plainclothes detectives in the '70's carried Chief's Specials & European generals carried .32ACP pistols....it's a symbol of the office. They have other folks do the gunfighting while they sit at the office & keep their suits from wrinkling.
SocialAnarchist
Moderator
I have a differing opinion perhaps. I really don't care what the FBI does. It has absolutely no bearing on what I purchase or shoot.
Strangely enough....
"Should have gone 50 AE.
Pffff, blunderbuss or get out. No reason to worry about ammo shortage when you can shoot whatever you can stuff in it."
........That was almost the answer to a question at Dixons, a fairly well known black powder shop close to my locale. My FIL and I were there and he mused out loud about what you load the Blunderbuss with that we were looking at. The counter guy not far from us kind of quietly giggled and said " anything you want that fits". Good time.
"Should have gone 50 AE.
Pffff, blunderbuss or get out. No reason to worry about ammo shortage when you can shoot whatever you can stuff in it."
........That was almost the answer to a question at Dixons, a fairly well known black powder shop close to my locale. My FIL and I were there and he mused out loud about what you load the Blunderbuss with that we were looking at. The counter guy not far from us kind of quietly giggled and said " anything you want that fits". Good time.
I have to disagree. I shoot 165's in my FNH, and I think the 165's are the hardest recoiling of the 40 loads. 180's are softer. And it makes sense, the 165 typically has 460 - 490 ft-lb energy, while the 180 typically has 400 - 420 ft-lb energy.
Having shot 9mm and 40 glock 19/23, and both 9mm and 40 sig 226's... I think there is a definite difference. 40 has noticeable more recoil than 9. It is not subtle, it is immediately apparent. I think 40 kicks more than 45 ACP (non +p)
Let's try not to insult FBI agents please. 99.9% of crime solving is activity other than gunfighting. Crimes are solved by brains, not muscle.
A pause for the COZ
New member
Sweet!!! Buds may end up with some nice Police trade in's of some 40's.
Cant wait.
Cant wait.
Uncle Malice
New member
They already have a bunch. I picked up one of the M&P 40 trade ins... they're in excellent condition and come with 3 mags.
All these things go back to the poor performance of the .38 158 gr RN lead.
One of the developments was the .41 which was available in TWO loadings, standard 1000 fps and the magnum 1500fps The standard , 41 "special" or "police" was for police and worked fine .But very few knew that it existed !!!!
The myth of the MAGNUM ! 
The FBI wouldn't admit their own failure so thay had to have a 10 mm [magnum]. That was too much so they went to the 40 [10 mm short ] .Gun makers wanted a round to fit into the 9mm platform That worked [ after mods ] for the 40.
In any case for the jugs of water and gelatin shooters ,I always used live things for my tests .Woodchucks and feral dogs. I don't find significant difference between 40 and 45 but a real difference between those and the 9mm. Newer 9mm loadings shrink the difference.
One of the developments was the .41 which was available in TWO loadings, standard 1000 fps and the magnum 1500fps The standard , 41 "special" or "police" was for police and worked fine .But very few knew that it existed !!!!
The myth of the MAGNUM ! The FBI wouldn't admit their own failure so thay had to have a 10 mm [magnum]. That was too much so they went to the 40 [10 mm short ] .Gun makers wanted a round to fit into the 9mm platform That worked [ after mods ] for the 40.
In any case for the jugs of water and gelatin shooters ,I always used live things for my tests .Woodchucks and feral dogs. I don't find significant difference between 40 and 45 but a real difference between those and the 9mm. Newer 9mm loadings shrink the difference.
Cheapshooter
New member
Right, don't hold your breath. The politicians won't even let thousands of WWII, and Korean War antiques back in the country because they are semi-auto rifles. Ya think they will sell handguns to the public?
WildBill45
New member
Everytime the FBI changes, everyone take it as Gold
Every time the feds change up on ammo, and who knows for what reason, cost, easier to handle for shooting suits, etc. they do a study to backup the move. They went from .38 to 9mm to .357 Sig to 40 S&W and now back to 9mm, and always, ALWAYS, have a study that appears to be beyond contestation with its medical and science terminology ... I am dubious about all of their studies that change every other year.
Just like some of my African Pro Hunter friends do, I stick with what has worked in the real world by real shooters for a very long time. I doubt the premise and the facts used to backup where they want to go...
Every time the feds change up on ammo, and who knows for what reason, cost, easier to handle for shooting suits, etc. they do a study to backup the move. They went from .38 to 9mm to .357 Sig to 40 S&W and now back to 9mm, and always, ALWAYS, have a study that appears to be beyond contestation with its medical and science terminology ... I am dubious about all of their studies that change every other year.
Just like some of my African Pro Hunter friends do, I stick with what has worked in the real world by real shooters for a very long time. I doubt the premise and the facts used to backup where they want to go...
Sounds like a case of the FED needing to use up it's budget so thy can ask for another increase next year. if they even HAVE budgets anymore. I used to work for a federal contracting company. we would go to the CDC at the end of every year and do the dumbest work, they would tell us straight up that they just needed to use up the budget, so try to find any problems we could and send them an invoice. same wit marta and hartsfield Jackson airport. every year was the same thing.
Seven High
New member
The DoD has and wants to keep missile bases in Italy. They need the support of Beretta Corp. to continue this. The Beretta and the 9mm cartridge isn't going anywhere for the foreseeable future.
I'm a .45 guy whose come around to the 9mm. Modern bullets have really come a long way as well as gun designs. I conceal carry with a Ruger SR9C. It's lighter, easier to conceal, and has higher capacity than any of my 1911s.
As far as the .40 goes, I sold off my Glock 23 years ago and I've found myself really not missing either the gun or the caliber.
As far as the .40 goes, I sold off my Glock 23 years ago and I've found myself really not missing either the gun or the caliber.
johnnydollar
New member
I love the 9mm because HK chambered the P7 for it. The version they made in .40 S&W is an ungainly, awkward looking gun--not to mention being very rare--and the .45 version exists only as a small handful of prototypes.
WildBill45
New member
I really don't like explaining myself but ... it means folks who deal with the most dangerous game daily and for a long time shun the newest and the latest gizmos and theory coming down the road, thus they didn't like my .460 Weatherby ... they stick with WHAT has worked ... period. AND NO I am not saying the 9mm isn't a good round, I am saying what I said ... The FBI is NOT the god of gun knowledge and changes its mind like a school girl at a candy store for reasons not always for what they imply...
Sorry I guess I am confused about what rifle hunting large game has to do with handgun shooting of two-legged critters.
I think your argument is that the latest theory isn't always the best theory. I would counter that 9mm is hardly the latest theory, it's actually the oldest. I see the FBI's current decision as motivated by a number of factors. If anything they are going back to what "worked" in the past (maybe that was your point?).
I really don't think this analogy fits. The 40SW was adopted by the FBI in 1997. It's 2014. That's 17 years. As for the other changes in the 20th Century, they followed with what was happening in the industry in terms of what calibers were and weren't in vogue. Why people make a big deal out of this change is because the FBI does have influence in what other agencies, both federal and state, are using for sidearms. This is the semiautomatic handgun forum and folks are naturally interested in this story.