FBI is officially moving back to 9mm. Awesome.

seeker_two said:
Maybe the problem is training our officers in the strategy of emptying a full mag into a threat without teaching the officer to evaluate if the rounds are having any effect.

Whatever happened to the Double Tap and the Mozambique Drill?.....
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I believe that would be because a strategy that consists of firing 2 or 3 shots (double tap or Mozambique), then stopping and trying to evaluate their effect while the threat is still actively trying to kill you, strikes most people as pretty much the ultimate in stupidity.
 
A cop fired 17 times in St Louis yesterday at one guy that fired 3 times at him. The report is the bad guy's gun jammed and he was killed. This doesn't say much for the 9mm being powerful enough or easy to shoot.
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So what? I could fire 100 shots of .44 magnum and if I don't hit anything, does that prove the .44 mag is a worthless paperweight?

As far as the FBI being the all-encompassing authority, they're not. They did, however, develop rational standards for handgun ammo to meet and valid testing protocols. And, of course, if the FBI does move to 9mm, there will be a number of agencies that will follow their lead. That, I think, is the point of this thread, not that 9mm is now a super caliber.
 
Hmmmm


While the 9mm may indeed meet "minimum standards" when fired from a gun sold by the lowest bidder, I think I'll spend the extra and keep firing a caliber that has a bit more than minimum.
 
Sometimes I wonder if people who find the .40 notably, seriously "snappy" just haven't tried the round in a platform that was properly designed for the .40. My PX4 or Cougar, the M&P, the Sig 229, all of them feel nearly identical in 9mm and .40, at least in my hands.

Although I don't mean that as an insult. As I said in my first post, different things work better for different people. I perceive and control the two as nearly identical, but my smaller friend (roughly 5'10" and 190 to my 6'5" 250, with notably smaller hands) shoots 9mm significantly easier than .40. If I were him, I would see no use for the .40.
 
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45_auto said:
I believe that would be because a strategy that consists of firing 2 or 3 shots (double tap or Mozambique), then stopping and trying to evaluate their effect while the threat is still actively trying to kill you, strikes most people as pretty much the ultimate in stupidity.
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If it takes you a long time to decide if a person is trying to kill you after you shoot them, then you might want to practice on your decision-making skills a little more....
 
I do take exception that the 9mm SD rounds are now supposedly "superior" to the others.

Depending on the person, you may shoot a 9mm better which would make it more effective, but the round itself while no longer inferior, certainly is not superior to any other pistol caliber.

I also think the 9mm is superior in that you can get more rounds in the same size pistol. That means no to fewer magazine changes.

But again that is not a cartridge superior as a benefit of the small rounds.

You can also improve that by going to larger frame in the larger caliber. May or may not have a downside.

And the 357 Sig still has adherent (in the right loading) if you are into barrier penetration situations. It will be interesting to see if it gets more popular.

On the other hand I did not need the FBI to tell me, I research the options (9 or 40) when I bought mine and the 9mm was clearly equal in modern SD loadings and I went with the research.
 
The 9mm certainly can get the job done, but I'm sure much of this was based on cost and that most people can't shoot larger calibers as well as smaller ones. I like bigger calibers better but the 9mm in many ways is a very logical choice for the majority of people.
 
The 9mm certainly can get the job done, but I'm sure much of this was based on cost and that most people can't shoot larger calibers as well as smaller ones. I like bigger calibers better but the 9mm in many ways is a very logical choice for the majority of people.
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Part of it was that the guns were wearing faster than expected. 40SW does beat up a gun more than 9mm.
 
The 9mm certainly can get the job done, but I'm sure much of this was based on cost and that most people can't shoot larger calibers as well as smaller ones.
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Also, the ones making the decisions are more politicians than firearms experts
 
Also, the ones making the decisions are more politicians than firearms experts
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Did I miss the post where somebody actually substantiated that it is a fact that they are changing? Like maybe a link to an order of solicitation for the guns dated a little more currently than the one that can be found for 9MM ammunition from over a year ago?
 
The FBI has not, not committed to 9mm

Did I miss the post where somebody actually substantiated that it is a fact that they are changing? Like maybe a link to an order of solicitation for the guns dated a little more currently than the one that can be found for 9MM ammunition from over a year ago?
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No, you didn't. In my post #38 I linked to a pre-solicitation notice dated July 14, 2014. It partially states:
This is a PRE-SOLICITATION NOTICE of a proposed requirement for various commercial "OFF THE SHELF" semi-automatic pistols chambered to fire a 9mm Luger cartridge as defined by SAAMI. This notice is issued solely for informational and planning purposes only.

The following types of pistols, chambered to fire a 9mm Luger cartridge, may be requested for testing and evaluation purposes under a future solicitation: . . .

The Federal Bureau of Investigation anticipates the release of a solicitation during FY2015/Q1; distributed solely through the General Services Administration (GSA) Federal Business Opportunities (FBO) Website (www.fedbizopps.gov). This notice does not constitute a Request for Proposal (RFP) and should not be construed to as a commitment of any kind by the Government to issue a formal solicitation or ultimately award a contract.
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https://www.fbo.gov/index?s=opportu...c0f178480b6ce1c3922566274ea&tab=core&_cview=0
 
I think you're right. It may happen but we'll have to wait to make sure. BTW, I started another thread so that it gets some attention. Nobody ever reads more than the first two or three messages it seems.
 
So a better thread title would be "FBI is looking into moving back to 9mm.
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It is clear from other sources that when the FBI changes pistols it will be to a 9mm. They may not change pistols right away, but when they do they will be changing away from .40S&W--what has been their issue caliber since the late 1980s.
 
While the military moves back to the 45ACP.

In the 1980s the entire Department of Defense converted to a Beretta 9x19mm pistol and that was suppose to be the end of discussion on handguns in the military. Many special united such as Marine Recon or Army Delta Force kept right on using the 45. The Army has announced that it plans to buy 60,000 new 45 caliber semi-auto pistols for its front line troops. Most likely it will be a more modern handgun than the venerable old Colt 1911 but whatever is chosen it will be a 45 caliber round coming out the business end of barrel. Aim high, shoot big-bore.
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http://www.chuckhawks.com/45_back_military.htm
 
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