FBI is officially moving back to 9mm. Awesome.

In addition, the longer cartridge length of the 10mm in then-existing pistols made it difficult for those with small hands, especially women, to properly grip a double-stack, hi-cap 10mm.
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Correct. In fact, there were lawsuits brought by female agents and those with small hands who couldn't manage the larger grip and saw their qualification scores suffer.

The 9mm should have been an alternative, but the trend of the day was to blame Agent Dove's ammunition above anything else. As a result, we got a shortened 10mm loading--one for which I've never really seen the point.
 
Should have gone 50 AE.
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Pffff, blunderbuss or get out. No reason to worry about ammo shortage when you can shoot whatever you can stuff in it.

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Seriously though, go with what you shoot best. At this point, the real life differences of SD ammo between 9mm/40/45 are negligible.
 
I really like 9mm. My carry guns are all 9mm and most of my range guns are 9mm. But, if the FBI is turning to 9mm, there must be something wrong with it, since they rarely get anything right. Therefore, I must re-think the larger capacity .40's. Well, at least I have one small carry gun in .40 - perhaps I'll go back to using it more.:D
 
As it is, several police departments have been readopting 9mm due to ammunition shortages and cost.
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Yep, now the price on 9mm ammo will go up, in you can find it.
Those that have guns chambered in 40S&W may want to hang on to them as there should be plenty of ammo at good prices, well plenty of ammo anyway.

Best Regards
Bob Hunter
www.huntercustoms.com
 
Quote:
In addition, the longer cartridge length of the 10mm in then-existing pistols made it difficult for those with small hands, especially women, to properly grip a double-stack, hi-cap 10mm.
Correct. In fact, there were lawsuits brought by female agents and those with small hands who couldn't manage the larger grip and saw their qualification scores suffer.

The 9mm should have been an alternative, but the trend of the day was to blame Agent Dove's ammunition above anything else. As a result, we got a shortened 10mm loading--one for which I've never really seen the point.
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Exactly. My wife is in Federal LE and much preferred her 9mm to the 40 cal they issued her. They also changed brands of gun which may have affected things. She certainly wishes they would switch back. I hope they do, because I want her .40 if they offer a buyout program.
 
JohnKSa said:
The FBI was strongly pre-disposed to come up with a conclusion that blamed equipment because of an unwillingness to blame tactics, training or the agents on the scene.

Add to that the fact that there were ambitious people waiting in the wings who realized that there was money to be made and reputations to be built by telling the FBI what they wanted to hear.

Careers were made and destroyed and a TON of misinformation was dispensed in the 3 decades that elapsed before sanity was restored.
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Yea I know, it's just crazy to think it has taken this long. To me if they wanted to blame equipment they could have fixated on going against a skilled suspect who was using a carbine with mostly pistols and one shotgun. If I remember correctly the agent with the shotgun was injured early, though managed some impressive heroics to end the fight. Carbines in the trunks of cars would have gone a long way. The ease of shooting a rifle versus a handgun is dramatic and the inability to make critical hits was a huge factor in that fight. Sad that it took the North Hollywood bank shootout for that lesson to be learned.
 
I have a family member that works for a large state agency. They are having trouble with qualifications with their .40's. So, they are modifying the triggers to accommodate those that have trouble pulling the double action trigger(first shot). They said it is only a matter of time before they go back to the 9mm because of cost and they have trouble getting man of their recruits and current officers qualified properly.
 
I have looked around on the Web for the original document from the FBI.

And try as I might my google-fu comes up with nothing.

Can anyone site an FBI/DOJ source for this "document"?

It doesn't seem to be written in the style of a government document, to me. And it just seems like a re-hash of every 9mm - 40 s&w argument I've ever seen.

I'd love to see the original on the FBI website.

I don't care about the 9MM/40 argument. I'd just like to be able to verify the source if I"m going to quote it.
 
I was responsible for the adoption of the .40 cal round at a medium sized police department (130 sworn) and training officers on the weapon/ ammo conversion. The department had all sizes of individuals both male and female. The only persons I had trouble with at the range were those who did poorly with the 9mm as well and would skip training days until threatened with being benched.
We shot approximately 100,000 rounds a year with a very active training program. I personally shot a lot of .40 but after retirement traded my issue Glock 23 for a 19 in 9mm as I much prefer that cartridge for my personal use. I have 60-70 pistols today and none are .40 cal. But still feel it is a viable LE tool.
 
Bob Hunter, Hunter Customs,

Point taken and you may very well be correct, BUT perhaps if the ammo makers don't have to bother as much with the .40 they'll be able to keep
their production lines up longer for the 9 mm/.45.

I suspect that in the past with so much production energy spent on producing the .40 for police and civilian markets it had to hurt the production of the civilian 9 mm market (since the military kept them pretty busy with the 9mm).
 
I have looked around on the Web for the original document from the FBI.

And try as I might my google-fu comes up with nothing.

Can anyone site an FBI/DOJ source for this "document"?

It doesn't seem to be written in the style of a government document, to me. And it just seems like a re-hash of every 9mm - 40 s&w argument I've ever seen.

I'd love to see the original on the FBI website.

I don't care about the 9MM/40 argument. I'd just like to be able to verify the source if I"m going to quote it.
__________________
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Exactly!
There was a post on another thread that tried to start the same rumor with some sort of official solicitation quoted.
From a year and a half ago!

Just when you thought the ammo shortage might ease...

On the way to look up something else, I found an FBI solicitation for purchase of up to 1,000,000 rounds each of 4 different types of 9mm ammo (Service, Practice, Reduced Lead Practice and Frangible) per year. 1 year contract with 4 option years, total payout not to exceed $25,0000,000. Piggy-back clause allows other federal agencies to buy at the Bureau's price. Solicitation went out Tuesday. Bids due by 04/19.

Not an Internet rumor. Look it up for yourself. RFP-OSCU-DSU1301 the specs were written 12/20/2012 but the solicitation was issued Tuesday.
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https://www.fbo.gov/?s=opportunity&mode=form&tab=core&id=6f5497202cd7bdc3a14b754a3b3932ec&_cview=0

Come up with something that looks more like this, and dated more recently, and it might be more believable.
 
This may seem a little snarky, but really, how many rounds did the FBI shoot last year in real world? Not training, actually shooting at a bad guy. Did they kill/wound anyone? Did something bad happen because someone that was just wounded shot back?
 
Have you forgotten that the FBI initially wanted to adopt the 10mm, but too many of their agents found that to be too "hot." So the .40 S&W was developed as a sort of "10mm lite."
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Actually the FBI did adopt the 10mm and it was tested and adopted with the 10mm lite loading (180gr@950fps)
 
I have 60-70 pistols today and none are .40 cal. But still feel it is a viable LE tool.
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I don't think anybody disagrees. It's just that there are the .40 S&W "fan boys" who insist it's the only caliber that is worth carrying. But, I suppose there are .45 and 9mm "fan boys" as well. :)
 
As it is, several police departments have been readopting 9mm due to ammunition shortages and cost. The Georgia State Patrol is switching after a long misadventure with .45 GAP.
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A Trooper pal of mine said someone finally sobered up at A Troop...and then promptly started drinking again when they decided on the 9x19 (he's a big .45 ACP fan)

I've always like the 10mm simply because of the versatility of the cartridge for a reloader. As a duty load, I certainly see it's disadvantages.

That being said, I don't see where the .40 S&W really did much to correct those short comings.

However, the 10mm, while an awesome round and used to great affect by Pat O'Day, was really an answer to the wrong questions.

A group of plain clothes investigative agents going up against violent bank robbers armed with carbines while primarily pistols should have had more folks asking "where were your tactics?" instead of "why did these Silvertips not expand?"

I, do however, dread the internet response of the 9x19 fanboys and the claims of that's what the FBI issues start to arise.

Because a girl fresh out of college and taking the CPA who is working white collar crimes investigation is going to be carrying the best fighting pistol.
 
I am all for switching to 9mm, but the linked article is very informal and somewhat "unprofessional". I am surprised that it supposedly came from the desk of the FBI. rather than caliber, I am much more interested in the projectile they choose since the memo stated that was the most important factor. I would actually love to hear what their ballistics lab says is the best bullet(ie. hornaday, wichester etc)
 
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