FBI is officially moving back to 9mm. Awesome.

I like 9. I own nines. It works well. I like .45 and I own one of those too.

I still like .40 best. My own review of evidence, articles, testing, and a handful of anecdotal examples still sees an advantage, particularly in defeating barriers. Others will review the evidence and not agree with that conclusion (the FBI, apparently, included) and that's okay. In addition, as a very large guy (6'5", 250) I feel very little difference between the recoils of the common service calibers. Not even very much between 9 and .45. Other shooters with more moderate frames and hand sizes might see a bigger control imprvement with 9, something I understand and respect.

The FBI is an authoritative voice, and one that has at least moderate adherence to evidence-based practices, but by no means is the voice of the FBI the end of the discussion. Some of the same folks who will laud the FBI's wisdom in going back to 9 might take a moment to consider the FBI's faulty logic in blaming caliber at all for an incident that was based on training and tactics failures.

Interesting, and newsworthy, but all the major service calibers are sticking around for the foreseeable future.
 
9MM has come a long way

I was a full time 9MM basher for years. With modern ammo I've recently decided I needed one because it ought to fulfill a need that I have. Looking for my first one to purchase.
 
I do like the 9mm and is the only caliber I get in auto loading pistols. When I got my Sig 226 9mm in the 90's I decided to stick with the 9mm. Its mostly because I only want to deal with one caliber but, I do like it's other advntages. I guess I don't really care if the FBI goes back to the 9mm or not. I did not when they dropped the 9mm. I've never felt under gunned with a 9mm strapped to my side even with the less effective loads of yesteryear.
 
I had a Glock 23 as my 40 testbed, and didnt care for it much.
With all the low cost police surplus G22's I've seen lately, I've considered getting one....mainly because around here, there always seemed to be 40 ammo during the crunch. Even Walmart, when their shelves were empty, often had a box or three.
 
I have been doing the same too. My only .40 is the Glock 27 for which I have a 9mm conversion barrel. But I would still preferred the G26. Oh well.

Is it me or is it that most of the used pistols tend to be .40?
 
Majority of FBI people are desk jockeys . Just give them a small 25 auto . It meets the FBI 12 " min penetration 25 Ball has showed to go 16" or more. :D


Stop wasting out tax money on needless caliber change overs.
 
Is it me or is it that most of the used pistols tend to be .40?
Click to expand...

Same here, cases full of .40 Glocks and M&P's where you will almost never see a Glock 17 or 19 up for sale. I know more people switching from .40 to 9mm once they realized the .40 gives them no real benefit but several disadvantages.
 
I find this a little bit comical. I've heard rumors that many within the FBI have wanted to go back to 9mm for some time, perhaps the agency figured it had been long enough that everybody had forgotten this little gem:

The 9mm has been in existence since 1902. It is actually an older cartridge than the .45. In that time, so many variations and designs have been tried that it is hard to imagine anything new that could be attempted.
Click to expand...

http://www.firearmstactical.com/pdf/fbi_10mm_notes.pdf
 
Because there are used .40's on the market does not mean they were replaced with 9mm's. Most of the used pistols turned in by Gov entities are replaced with newer versions or different brands in the same .40 cal. So you should see used .40's for some time to come
 
A few weeks/months ago there was this discussion across various gun forums...

http://kitup.military.com/2014/07/army-40-caliber-fbi-returns-9mm.html

According to this discussion the U.S. military has been considering moving both to another handgun and away from the 9mm to a better round.

This has been going on at the same time that the FBI going back to the 9mm discussion.

Both the FBI and the Army Issued Pre-Solicitation notices for the July conferences. Along with notices for ammo, training equipment, models of commercial guns for trials, etc.

If it's gonna happen A more official notice will be made public. If it does happen it will make no difference to anyone but them this time.

tipoc
 
Tom Servo said:
Correct. In fact, there were lawsuits brought by female agents and those with small hands who couldn't manage the larger grip and saw their qualification scores suffer.
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Personally I think it is absurd to sue because you can't measure up to the standards of a company or organization. Besides, female FBI agents, for example, have an easier scoring system for their physical fitness test than men.
 
tipoc said:
A few weeks/months ago there was this discussion across various gun forums...

http://kitup.military.com/2014/07/army-40-caliber-fbi-returns-9mm.html

According to this discussion the U.S. military has been considering moving both to another handgun and away from the 9mm to a better round.

This has been going on at the same time that the FBI going back to the 9mm discussion.

Both the FBI and the Army Issued Pre-Solicitation notices for the July conferences. Along with notices for ammo, training equipment, models of commercial guns for trials, etc.

If it's gonna happen A more official notice will be made public. If it does happen it will make no difference to anyone but them this time.

tipoc
Click to expand...
The Army is restricted to FMJ and can't benefit from the improvements in JHPs. That said I would be amazed if they moved from the 9mm. Abandoning a NATO caliber especially during sequestration when many more important programs than handguns are being cut would be pretty crazy.
 
The U.S. military was looking seriously into the 9 mm shortly after WWII.

Guns were developed for it with the Smith Model 39 one outcome.

Only because it was deemed that so many 1911s were still serviceable
and because of budget constraints did the military not switch 65 years ago.

Today, with the exception of rumblings from small special units for the .45,
the 9 mm will continue and continue. What might happen some time down the road is that something other than the Beretta 92 will be chosen, Again it'll in 9 mm.
 
With the more recent bullet designs, the 9mm is a more effective round than it was in the 80s when the FBI reshuffled everything after their Miami disaster. Makes sense that they'd return to it now.
 
I find this a little bit comical. I've heard rumors that many within the FBI have wanted to go back to 9mm for some time, perhaps the agency figured it had been long enough that everybody had forgotten this little gem:


Quote:
The 9mm has been in existence since 1902. It is actually an older cartridge than the .45. In that time, so many variations and designs have been tried that it is hard to imagine anything new that could be attempted.

http://www.firearmstactical.com/pdf/fbi_10mm_notes.pdf
Click to expand...


why on earth was the average test barrel for 9mm 147gr 2.3inches? the .38 test barrels were even longer
 
me

I can shoot a 9mm faster. I know this from IDPA scores. I can shoot .45ACP or .40 for that matter accurately, but not as quickly as 9mm. And I can load and shoot 9mm cheaper than the other two.

I'm not sure that matters if the target is shooting or fighting back.

What seems not mentioned is if a HP does NOT expand, the suspect is heavily clothed, or the suspect gets hit with a bullet fragment because the pistol slug hit an obstacle like a steering wheel, door frame, trim, etc. I guess you could say, big fragments are better than small ones.

I wonder, if the .40 and .45 are so hard to shoot, how did anybody hit anything with the old .357 wheel guns, all up? Oh yeah, most Feds did not carry all up ammo as a general rule. When they did make the jump to mag ammo, lots of folks had trouble. The same type of trouble the full 10mm caused. Many Fed agencies, and I suspect the FBI for sure, are not full of shooters, but bureaucrats, and for them the watered down .357, and now the reversion to the 9mm makes sense....for them.
 
Bamaranger,

Hit rates with revolvers used in DA have always been lower than SA auto hit rates, especially one-handed.

Don't care how big and strong one might be, firing a .357 full house in 125, 140 or 158 grain DA with one hand or two-handed is not easy and achieving really decent hits beyond near contact distance is very difficult. Doing so might be a bit easier in a Smith 586 or Colt Python but the typical police revolver of the '70s was the Model 19 or 13 for .357.

It's not just the heavy recoil of a particular cartridge but also the DA trigger in a revolver that must be mastered.
 
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