10mm or 357 mag?
- Thread starter David spargenator
- Start date
I dont think the 10mm can still be in spec and get 900 foot pounds. The 357 from a 6 inch semiauto (Buffalo bore) is still in spec They are not +P loads and they do get 900 foot pounds.
here is a quote from buffalo bore on there page selling the 357 magnum ammo in question:
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convoluted sentence alert
Light bullets overdriven smack hard but due to (insanely) rapid expansion often cannot provide sufficient penetration.
As for thinking the 158g JHP in 357 Magnum is ideal, many years of documented anecdotal evidence prove that false.
The proper 'people' bullet in 357 Magnum is one of many available high-performance offerings that utilize a 125g JHP.
I still prefer my car. Do the math....
Light bullets overdriven smack hard but due to (insanely) rapid expansion often cannot provide sufficient penetration.
As for thinking the 158g JHP in 357 Magnum is ideal, many years of documented anecdotal evidence prove that false.
The proper 'people' bullet in 357 Magnum is one of many available high-performance offerings that utilize a 125g JHP.
I still prefer my car. Do the math....
You would think that if it was over spec that they would be afraid of lawsuits.
I looked it up online and could find nothing stating that there 357s where over spec. I did find some stuff about 380s but they are marked 380+P
if it was over spec I doubt places like Cabellas and sportsman warehouse would be carrying it. While not common here in Idaho its not hard to find.
Out of SAAMI?
That is a good question. I have shot about 10ish boxes of buffalo bore through my Coonan and may be 4 more boxes in the past through my Marlin. Call me a fool if you like but when they claimed to me in SAAMI spec I believe them. I actually never thought to check it out online.
As stated above they are not uncommon rounds here. If I wanted Buffalo bore ammo I know several places I could go to get it locally. If it is over spec I will not buy any more. I care about my guns. Though I have read not to shoot any of the hotter 110 or 125 grain loads through a K-frame.
That is a good question. I have shot about 10ish boxes of buffalo bore through my Coonan and may be 4 more boxes in the past through my Marlin. Call me a fool if you like but when they claimed to me in SAAMI spec I believe them. I actually never thought to check it out online.
As stated above they are not uncommon rounds here. If I wanted Buffalo bore ammo I know several places I could go to get it locally. If it is over spec I will not buy any more. I care about my guns. Though I have read not to shoot any of the hotter 110 or 125 grain loads through a K-frame.
There's a disclaimer on the box.
Buffalo Bore is not a member of SAAMI so their ammo may or may not be in spec. He used to claim that he was loading 357 to the old IIRC 42,000 cup pressure Saami is 36,000 psi. there's a difference in how it's measured. Some of their claims are (I believe intentionally) misleading.
a couple things I know to be true that seams to contradict their claims.
Very heavy recoiling loads will cause endshake at a lower round count than lighter recoiling loads.
Enough 125gr 1600+ FPS loads will eventually erode the forcing cone of any revolver and it will crack. I've even seen it happen to a GP100.
These issues can become dangerous if not addressed.
Ultimately if you're gonn push the limits knowledge of said limits is the key.
Does my 10mm have enough case support? How strong is my revolver?
What issues do I need to look for?
Deja,
I wouldn't worry about shooting BB in the Marlin it is plenty strong and there's no problem with cyl gap. If it was my Coonan I'd limit how much BB I put in it and watch for any signs of battering the slide or frame from recoil just like I would any other auto. I push my guns, but I know where the edge is and stay a safe distance from it.
The little thought I did give to how BB did it was me mostly assuming that he had access to powders that I do not have access to. When they released the new power pro 300MP powder it added several 100 FPS to the top loads of 357 magnum. I just assumed that BB had access to other powders like this that the common person did not have.
It also crossed my mind that may be he is mixing powders. While that is unheard of now days back in the old days (1960s) it was more common.
As I said before it never occurred that they may be out of spec. That Coonan review that you see I actually shot many loads of that ammo (about 4 boxes) the part that I put up is the velocity. I also did an accuracy test and an informal penetration test on some 2X4s. I have not seen any wear but I have not looked super close either.
It really does bother me that they "may" be out of spec.
to be blunt
This is the warning I offered with every request for non-"standard" custom ammunition; if one wanted extreme performance one accepted the cost to the launch platform.
It remains true regardless of producer. SAAMI limits give users the potential for lessened wear-n-tear.
This is the warning I offered with every request for non-"standard" custom ammunition; if one wanted extreme performance one accepted the cost to the launch platform.
It remains true regardless of producer. SAAMI limits give users the potential for lessened wear-n-tear.
weshoot2,
Your entire post of:
"Light bullets overdriven smack hard but due to (insanely) rapid expansion often cannot provide sufficient penetration.
As for thinking the 158g JHP in 357 Magnum is ideal, many years of documented anecdotal evidence prove that false.
The proper 'people' bullet in 357 Magnum is one of many available high-performance offerings that utilize a 125g JHP."
is FALSE. It fact, it is urban legend with a healthy dose of self-preserving gobbledygook.
You should spend some time studying wound dynamics. Handgun velocity does not kill. Velocity does not affect lethality.
The actual as opposed to anecdotal/BS evidence is that the 158 grain .38 caliber is most efficacious.
Your entire post of:
"Light bullets overdriven smack hard but due to (insanely) rapid expansion often cannot provide sufficient penetration.
As for thinking the 158g JHP in 357 Magnum is ideal, many years of documented anecdotal evidence prove that false.
The proper 'people' bullet in 357 Magnum is one of many available high-performance offerings that utilize a 125g JHP."
is FALSE. It fact, it is urban legend with a healthy dose of self-preserving gobbledygook.
You should spend some time studying wound dynamics. Handgun velocity does not kill. Velocity does not affect lethality.
The actual as opposed to anecdotal/BS evidence is that the 158 grain .38 caliber is most efficacious.
This is a ridiculous, and obviously false, statement. Clearly bullets with velocty are far more lethal than ones that are stationary, and ones moving at 1000fps velocity are more lethal than those moving at 5fps velocity.
Regardless of what parameter one chooses to use as a pet measure of lethality or terminal performance, it is going to depend, to one extent or another on velocity since bullets have zero lethality and zero terminal performance without it. Without velocity there is no way a tiny little "pill" of metal would be dangerous, let alone lethal.
let us agree to (thoroughly) disagree
I appreciate your opinion.
Except I disagree.
I appreciate your suggestion I spend some time studying wound dynamics (how cute).
Except perhaps, as a matter of my actual business, already (and continue to) did and still do so.
I appreciate your passion (obvious) about this subject.
But bad advice can get real people actually killed; know what I mean?
I am not interested in lethality, as we are not discussing hunting.
My interest remains behavior cessation.
It is nice to see my name mentioned
I appreciate your opinion.
Except I disagree.
I appreciate your suggestion I spend some time studying wound dynamics (how cute).
Except perhaps, as a matter of my actual business, already (and continue to) did and still do so.
I appreciate your passion (obvious) about this subject.
But bad advice can get real people actually killed; know what I mean?
I am not interested in lethality, as we are not discussing hunting.
My interest remains behavior cessation.
It is nice to see my name mentioned
Strafer Gott
New member
I thought the 125 gr .357 replaced the 158 gr. because of over penetration by the heavier bullet.
chesterfield
New member
Over spec .357 mag. ammo
I was advised by Smith & Wesson not to shoot buffalo bore in my 66-2 as they don't adhere to SAAMI specs.
I was advised by Smith & Wesson not to shoot buffalo bore in my 66-2 as they don't adhere to SAAMI specs.
I'm hearing a lot of strange stuff on the 'net these days concerning the 10mm. Today alone I've gathered that some airheads think the 10mm:
- is able to knock a deer off its feet instantly, in part because of the shock wave moving through it, something BTW high powered rifles cannot even accomplish.
- is easily capable of mimicking exactly the .41 Mag and that some loads are as powerful as .44 Mag
- hits with as much energy as some rifle rounds
- that even a 180gr at 1,300 fps is considered low powered and not really full powered 10mm
- is considered a magnum class cartridge
- is way more powerful than a .357 Mag and twice as powerful as a .40 or .45.
My only question, what is wrong with people?
- is able to knock a deer off its feet instantly, in part because of the shock wave moving through it, something BTW high powered rifles cannot even accomplish.
- is easily capable of mimicking exactly the .41 Mag and that some loads are as powerful as .44 Mag
- hits with as much energy as some rifle rounds
- that even a 180gr at 1,300 fps is considered low powered and not really full powered 10mm
- is considered a magnum class cartridge
- is way more powerful than a .357 Mag and twice as powerful as a .40 or .45.
My only question, what is wrong with people?
JOHNKsa,
You've resorted to an extreme in order to buttress your theory. Extremism in argument is indicator of...
Google: "Dr. Gary Roberts handgun velocity." That'll put you on the straight and narrow.
Velocity does not kill. Destruction of CNS and/or loss of blood to the brain does.
You've resorted to an extreme in order to buttress your theory. Extremism in argument is indicator of...
Google: "Dr. Gary Roberts handgun velocity." That'll put you on the straight and narrow.
Velocity does not kill. Destruction of CNS and/or loss of blood to the brain does.
WESHOOT2,
There are a lot of armchair commandos with gun magazine knowledge that have mastered ballistic quackery and declare themselves expert. But if fact knowledge gained from scientific methodology reigns supreme.
If you think that velocity and not tissue destruction is primary cause of death, well, then you ought to return to ballistics 101.
There are a lot of armchair commandos with gun magazine knowledge that have mastered ballistic quackery and declare themselves expert. But if fact knowledge gained from scientific methodology reigns supreme.
If you think that velocity and not tissue destruction is primary cause of death, well, then you ought to return to ballistics 101.
WESHOOT2,
Never let scientific facts interfere with your beliefs, especially when a trauma surgeon refutes your beliefs with scientific facts: http://www.policemag.com/channel/we...opping-power-myths-legends-and-realities.aspx
Never let scientific facts interfere with your beliefs, especially when a trauma surgeon refutes your beliefs with scientific facts: http://www.policemag.com/channel/we...opping-power-myths-legends-and-realities.aspx