Beentown71
New member
Yep. The LCP II sees about 70% of my carry rotation time. Glock 27 25% and multiple different pistols for mixed reasonings.
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Would You Trust Your Life With a .380?
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TheGuyOfSouthamerica
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What is self defense or Concealed carry?
I believe that means you carry all the time a gun and if the event happens you do following things: (considered using for SD an Beretta Pico 380 acp one 6 shot magazine in the gun and hopefully another 6 shot spare magazine)
1. Deploy the weapon
2. If the threat is not running away and moves foreward towards you (attacking); you shoot once
3. you observe what happens to the threat and distance yourself (walk/run away quick)
4. If the threat cease to be a threat you run away from the incident
5. While on the run if the threat follows you; you shoot again; and gain more distance (run away gaining more distance)
6. repeat step 5. till the threat cease to be a threat (ain't following you anymore).
An concealment carry gun like the 380 auto is a deploy, shoot and run gun. Gaining distance to the threat is the most important thing in SD, street assault scenario. Hopefully you gain distance without firing a shot.
For siege situations and trench situations you better have an shotgun to weird off attackers. If you have a pistol gaining distance (run) is paramount.
I believe that means you carry all the time a gun and if the event happens you do following things: (considered using for SD an Beretta Pico 380 acp one 6 shot magazine in the gun and hopefully another 6 shot spare magazine)
1. Deploy the weapon
2. If the threat is not running away and moves foreward towards you (attacking); you shoot once
3. you observe what happens to the threat and distance yourself (walk/run away quick)
4. If the threat cease to be a threat you run away from the incident
5. While on the run if the threat follows you; you shoot again; and gain more distance (run away gaining more distance)
6. repeat step 5. till the threat cease to be a threat (ain't following you anymore).
An concealment carry gun like the 380 auto is a deploy, shoot and run gun. Gaining distance to the threat is the most important thing in SD, street assault scenario. Hopefully you gain distance without firing a shot.
For siege situations and trench situations you better have an shotgun to weird off attackers. If you have a pistol gaining distance (run) is paramount.
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If I'm compelled to ever draw my gun against another human being, it will be because I intend to shoot the weapon in order to stop a very real and legally sustainable threat to my life or limb or that of some other innocent party. I would never draw my firearm in the hopes of making someone "think twice" about doing a bad thing. "Brandishing/displaying" your gun to scare someone off is almost always a bad idea, both tactically and, potentially, legally. Almost as bad as firing a "warning" shot.
TheGuyOfSouthamerica
Moderator
Even if you carry an 9mm Luger as Concealed Carry it is still a pistol and is a hit and run gun.
I have shot cattle (cows and heifers) for slaugther with an 9mm Luger pistol. If they are "jacked up with adrenaline" they will not die at all and run away like crazy.
Only an direct hit to the very Center of the brain can kill an animal with an 9mm Luger round (specially if they are starting to get scared).
As the 9mm Luger rounds seem to have no effect whatsoever I switched to an shotgun. Even then the animal did not die although hit on the head with a 12 ga slug.
Finally the animal got a bit weaker and only then...
...Somehow we got to catch the animal and sliced the throath and let it bleed out in an traditional way. Only then the animal died.
I tell you this because don't believe there is an significant difference between 9mm Luger and 380 acp if both rounds are FMJ or lead bullets and reach at least 12" in Penetration.
With both you probably will hit Center mass and the threat will still follow you even if you run away. Expect the bad guy only after 15 minutes to slow down considered you hit him 2 times Center mass.
In other occasions an 22 LR round killed instantaneously the cow. Another Occasion 2 shots of the 9mm Luger pistol did the Job.
Using an 380 acp pistol for SD, street defense, CCW means you will probably only handicap the assailant.
The more handicapped the bad guy gets the slower he gets and the threat diminishes. The 380 acp (FMJ or 102 grain lead bullet) will have probably not have less effect than an 40 S&W or 45 acp.
I believe These are realistic exspectatives of almost any handgun calibers.
1 Center mass shot will have at most the effect of handicapping the assailant.
I have shot cattle (cows and heifers) for slaugther with an 9mm Luger pistol. If they are "jacked up with adrenaline" they will not die at all and run away like crazy.
Only an direct hit to the very Center of the brain can kill an animal with an 9mm Luger round (specially if they are starting to get scared).
As the 9mm Luger rounds seem to have no effect whatsoever I switched to an shotgun. Even then the animal did not die although hit on the head with a 12 ga slug.
Finally the animal got a bit weaker and only then...
...Somehow we got to catch the animal and sliced the throath and let it bleed out in an traditional way. Only then the animal died.
I tell you this because don't believe there is an significant difference between 9mm Luger and 380 acp if both rounds are FMJ or lead bullets and reach at least 12" in Penetration.
With both you probably will hit Center mass and the threat will still follow you even if you run away. Expect the bad guy only after 15 minutes to slow down considered you hit him 2 times Center mass.
In other occasions an 22 LR round killed instantaneously the cow. Another Occasion 2 shots of the 9mm Luger pistol did the Job.
Using an 380 acp pistol for SD, street defense, CCW means you will probably only handicap the assailant.
The more handicapped the bad guy gets the slower he gets and the threat diminishes. The 380 acp (FMJ or 102 grain lead bullet) will have probably not have less effect than an 40 S&W or 45 acp.
I believe These are realistic exspectatives of almost any handgun calibers.
1 Center mass shot will have at most the effect of handicapping the assailant.
Doc Holliday 1950
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TheGuyOfSouthAmerica,
Does this also apply to a Gold Dot P+ 9mm HPs or Federal HST HPs?? I don't think that what you wrote applies. For SD I only carry 9mm hollow points.
No FMJ or Lead ammo.
Being fairly new at Pistols, I'd like TFL to educate me on this and my answer is no. BTW. my carry is Glock 19 gen 4. I'll take that over a 380 any day.
Thanks.
Does this also apply to a Gold Dot P+ 9mm HPs or Federal HST HPs?? I don't think that what you wrote applies. For SD I only carry 9mm hollow points.
No FMJ or Lead ammo.
Being fairly new at Pistols, I'd like TFL to educate me on this and my answer is no. BTW. my carry is Glock 19 gen 4. I'll take that over a 380 any day.
Thanks.
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TheGuyOfSouthamerica
Moderator
If you ask me doc holly 1950 in both occasions I used FMJ 115 grain in 9mm Luger.
Yes I believe I trust my life to an 380 acp not less than to another caliber.
Inclusive I shot with .575" round balls as slugs in an 20 ga shotgun an oostrich. First shot broke his leg what dropped (handicapped him).
Then I shot from 5 meters another .575" 285 grain round ball to his Center mass and the animal did not die. It seemed he barely felt he was hit again. Finally I shot another 575 round ball to his head what killed him.
This Event made me think and I figured it is better to use multiple rounds at once (buckshot) instead of one round ball. So I loaded from then on the 20 ga Shells with .311" Lee mold round ball #1 1/2 Buckshot.
Try to shoot a Turkey Center mass with an 20 ga slug. See what happens. I bet the animal not neccesarily will get down instantly.
You see.
The Goal is the target gets down and does not attack you anymore. Since the bullet of the 380 acp is of similar Diameter than an 9mm Luger bullet similar effects can be expected in the Event both penetrate 12 inches.
Yes I believe I trust my life to an 380 acp not less than to another caliber.
Inclusive I shot with .575" round balls as slugs in an 20 ga shotgun an oostrich. First shot broke his leg what dropped (handicapped him).
Then I shot from 5 meters another .575" 285 grain round ball to his Center mass and the animal did not die. It seemed he barely felt he was hit again. Finally I shot another 575 round ball to his head what killed him.
This Event made me think and I figured it is better to use multiple rounds at once (buckshot) instead of one round ball. So I loaded from then on the 20 ga Shells with .311" Lee mold round ball #1 1/2 Buckshot.
Try to shoot a Turkey Center mass with an 20 ga slug. See what happens. I bet the animal not neccesarily will get down instantly.
You see.
The Goal is the target gets down and does not attack you anymore. Since the bullet of the 380 acp is of similar Diameter than an 9mm Luger bullet similar effects can be expected in the Event both penetrate 12 inches.
TheGuyOfSouthamerica
Moderator
2 shots of 9mm Browning (380 Auto) started the First World War.
2 shots of 380 auto and 2 dead People + millions of dead followed as an result.
2 shots of 380 auto and 2 dead People + millions of dead followed as an result.
TheGuyOfSouthamerica
Moderator
Neigther handgun caliber is capable of an Hydrostatic shock. Except 357 mag and 357 SIG.
So about 300 fps difference in velocity between 380 Auto and 9mm Luger may not cause an big difference.
380 Auto I consider an mouse gun caliber specially good for deep concealment.
Best compare the 380 acp with the 32 acp and 25 acp which are all respectable calibers. IMHO.
Compared to that the 380 acp is a big caliber and the best compromise.
IMO defensive gunshot should inflict pain to the attacker in order he rather seeks medical assistance instead pursuing his evil intent. Shooting in the leg may be an option so the bad guy can not walk quick and you can sleep well having not shot dead an human being.
So about 300 fps difference in velocity between 380 Auto and 9mm Luger may not cause an big difference.
380 Auto I consider an mouse gun caliber specially good for deep concealment.
Best compare the 380 acp with the 32 acp and 25 acp which are all respectable calibers. IMHO.
Compared to that the 380 acp is a big caliber and the best compromise.
IMO defensive gunshot should inflict pain to the attacker in order he rather seeks medical assistance instead pursuing his evil intent. Shooting in the leg may be an option so the bad guy can not walk quick and you can sleep well having not shot dead an human being.
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Yes. I carry an RM380 80% of the time. The other 20% is split between a Kahr CM9 and one of several 38 special revolvers. I even carry a 22 mag Black Widow around the house. Of course I'm never more than 10 feet away from a larger caliber gun no matter where I am in my house.
noonesshowmonkey
New member
This is an absolutely stupid thread.
How many in this thread carry a firearm for a living? How many in here can run a mile in under 8 minutes? How many here can lift at least 1.5x their body weight in a deadlift?
If you can't do the above listed things, no one really cares if a .380, or any particular bullet, is what you trust you life to.
A well prepared, well trained person is more dangerous than one carrying a .380 or 9mm or .45 ACP (gasp!). No one cares what size hole just got put in them. Out of handguns, and even rifles, lethal, A-zone hits matter. Everything else is functionally meaningless.
Be fit. Be well trained. Carry as much gun as you can conceal. Avoid fights unless necessary. If necessary, win with overwhelming tactical superiority. Be aggressive. Never give up. Win.
Honestly, these 4 pages stink of internet nonsense. Go do some pullups.
How many in this thread carry a firearm for a living? How many in here can run a mile in under 8 minutes? How many here can lift at least 1.5x their body weight in a deadlift?
If you can't do the above listed things, no one really cares if a .380, or any particular bullet, is what you trust you life to.
A well prepared, well trained person is more dangerous than one carrying a .380 or 9mm or .45 ACP (gasp!). No one cares what size hole just got put in them. Out of handguns, and even rifles, lethal, A-zone hits matter. Everything else is functionally meaningless.
Be fit. Be well trained. Carry as much gun as you can conceal. Avoid fights unless necessary. If necessary, win with overwhelming tactical superiority. Be aggressive. Never give up. Win.
Honestly, these 4 pages stink of internet nonsense. Go do some pullups.
You make legitimate points in reference to training, preparation, avoiding undesirable situations when possible and yes fitness to a point. With that said, not everyone has the luxury of being physically fit, there's the elderly (we are all headed that way), the physically handicapped, those that are just small statured etc..
I meet and exceed everyone of what you consider to be fitness attributes and I promise you that anyone of the above mentioned groups with the mental preparation (the intent and ability to pull the trigger on a threat) and training to properly use a handgun, pick your caliber, are most likely going to lay an absolute world of hurt and stop to my hostile actions if I was a dirt bag.
Thats what self defense carry is all about, its a chance at a game equalizer regardless of your physical capabilities. Women have stopped rapes, kids have defended there homes, citizens have have saved police officers lives on the side of the road because of it.
Back on topic, as I already posted earlier, I would trust a .380acp.
A gun should be tailored for its expected use.
My Sig P238 (.380) is a very good gun to put down assaulting punks, criminals, and the like.
It is not the right pistol for putting down say, Moro tribesman rushing out of the jungle hopped up on drugs. (Phillipines, circa 1911). For that, the .45 was invented.
It is not the right pistol for defending against bears in the forest. The .44 Mag. and/or Casull probably is that.
But for my intended use, i.e. punks, criminals, it is the right tool. With Hornady CD rounds, yes, I trust it to do its job if I do mine.
My Sig P238 (.380) is a very good gun to put down assaulting punks, criminals, and the like.
It is not the right pistol for putting down say, Moro tribesman rushing out of the jungle hopped up on drugs. (Phillipines, circa 1911). For that, the .45 was invented.
It is not the right pistol for defending against bears in the forest. The .44 Mag. and/or Casull probably is that.
But for my intended use, i.e. punks, criminals, it is the right tool. With Hornady CD rounds, yes, I trust it to do its job if I do mine.
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