Dragline45
New member
Yes but I don't have a need for anything smaller than my Shield, I've never had a problem concealing it.
Would You Trust Your Life With a .380?
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TheGuyOfSouthamerica
Moderator
This is an rather typical result for 380 acp vs 9mm Luger in this Video (test)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ANHPEz4llnc#t=326.4960214
As suggested generally for 380 Auto: You do NOT want an hollow Point bullet in the 380 acp. You want an FMJ or lead bullet in the 380 Auto.
This confirms the test in the Video as well.
If the 380 Auto is an FMJ or lead bullet you get 18+ inches of Penetration. (don't worry about overpenetration).
If the 380 Auto is an FMJ/lead bullet then it is as good as an 9mm Luger and you can trust the round as you trust the 9mm Luger or the 38 SPL round.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ANHPEz4llnc#t=326.4960214
As suggested generally for 380 Auto: You do NOT want an hollow Point bullet in the 380 acp. You want an FMJ or lead bullet in the 380 Auto.
This confirms the test in the Video as well.
If the 380 Auto is an FMJ or lead bullet you get 18+ inches of Penetration. (don't worry about overpenetration).
If the 380 Auto is an FMJ/lead bullet then it is as good as an 9mm Luger and you can trust the round as you trust the 9mm Luger or the 38 SPL round.
With the right ammo and gun I have and still do many times. My Sig P238 has night sights and a SA trigger. Hornady XTP and Ruger ARX can penetrate 12" or just shy of it in the ballistic gel test I saw. I am happy with 10 inches of penetration for civilian use. The only civilian I saw shot and killed was shot with a .22 lr in his belly and despite being a big bouncer, went down to his knees at once. Most people do not want to be shot with anything, shot placement is king and most will have a psychological reaction to being shot. I have seen it myself and read a lot of stories of civilians with a .380 or .22 chasing armed home intruders away with their small caliber guns. I live with a lot of senior citizens and the .380 is the most used caliber in a semi auto and .22 for a revolver. They seem to be able to chase away home burglars with their small caliber guns just fine, even armed burglars. I have yet to read about an old timer being shot by a burglar. It is always the homeowner shooting the burglar whether he is armed or not. So yes, I am fine with a .380 and sometimes even carry a .22lr or .22 magnum. I also have a .44 magnum and .357 7 shot snub nose that I can carry too as well as .45 and high cap or compact 9mm's. For most of the time around my retirement community that is also a vacation and tourist destination, I carry one of my 3 .380's since there are LEO all over the place as well as crowds of people. When I venture to places with a high crime rate I carry one of my bigger caliber and capacity guns.
FrankenMauser
New member
My standard daily carry is a .380.
There are other options -- all but one 'bigger' than .380 -- but the .380 is the go-to EDC.
There are other options -- all but one 'bigger' than .380 -- but the .380 is the go-to EDC.
I've carried something daily for at least the last 12 years or more. Everything from a .22 long rifle NAA revolver to a .357 snubbie.
For the last year or two it's been almost exclusively a .380. Yeah, of course if I got into a gunfight I'm going to be wishing I had my .357 or .45 or even better my shotgun with 00 buck.
But as we all know, the best gun is the one you have on your person when you need it. And honestly I see very very few circumstances where I can't slip a .380 into a pocket holster and carry it comfortably all day. If was a in a higher risk occupation, of course I would buckle up and carry something bigger and deal with the inconveniences of having a larger firearm. But until then I feel safe and consider myself being armed with a .380.
For the last year or two it's been almost exclusively a .380. Yeah, of course if I got into a gunfight I'm going to be wishing I had my .357 or .45 or even better my shotgun with 00 buck.
But as we all know, the best gun is the one you have on your person when you need it. And honestly I see very very few circumstances where I can't slip a .380 into a pocket holster and carry it comfortably all day. If was a in a higher risk occupation, of course I would buckle up and carry something bigger and deal with the inconveniences of having a larger firearm. But until then I feel safe and consider myself being armed with a .380.
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Beats fists, feet and foul language. As others have noted, easily carried and concealed, less likely to be forgotten. Carry a spare magazine and....again, I wonder if we're too hung up this idea of a "gunfight" as a long drawn out battle requiring vast amounts of ammunition.
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I find this interesting. Several years ok on another board (the NAA board) I noted that anything up to and including a .380 I carried with FMJ and anything down to and above a 9MM I carried with hollow points. I found it a reasonable cut-off line that kept things somewhat simple for me.
I carried a Beretta Tomcat Inox in .32 for a long time. Really liked that gun and am still kind of annoyed I got caught up in the "bigger is better" trend.
TheGuyOfSouthamerica
Moderator
This is the effect and Deformation one of These 148 grain Lee Tumble Lube Wadcutters make, if shot a 200 Kg/450 lbs Beef heifer with it (where the blue arrows show to in the Picture).
This round was loaded so it should have 1010 fps and 335 ft/lbs of energy.
The high Zinc Content makes it break in two and since it is soft lead it deforms readily if it Encounters an hard object like in this case a rib.
We slaughtered an 200 Kg Beef animal and The bullet shown is the first shot which is a miss (of the head) and it went into it's shoulder legthwise and the ribs made it deforming.
After this shot the animal walked half a mile were we wanted it to slaughter. Sometimes the animal was resting a bit but it seemed not even Feeling the first hit into the shoulder and it was not upset at all.
The second shot was with another 148 grain WC but Elmer Keith style (loaded weakly to about 245 ft/lbs) which went into the head and dropped the animal immediatelly (shotplacement between the horns a tad lower).
This Shows again an 380 Auto is very much capable and shot Placement is the most critical Thing. Penetration is crucial as well and not so much Expansion. Expansion I would even skip completely for Home Defense rounds.
This round was loaded so it should have 1010 fps and 335 ft/lbs of energy.
The high Zinc Content makes it break in two and since it is soft lead it deforms readily if it Encounters an hard object like in this case a rib.
We slaughtered an 200 Kg Beef animal and The bullet shown is the first shot which is a miss (of the head) and it went into it's shoulder legthwise and the ribs made it deforming.
After this shot the animal walked half a mile were we wanted it to slaughter. Sometimes the animal was resting a bit but it seemed not even Feeling the first hit into the shoulder and it was not upset at all.
The second shot was with another 148 grain WC but Elmer Keith style (loaded weakly to about 245 ft/lbs) which went into the head and dropped the animal immediatelly (shotplacement between the horns a tad lower).
This Shows again an 380 Auto is very much capable and shot Placement is the most critical Thing. Penetration is crucial as well and not so much Expansion. Expansion I would even skip completely for Home Defense rounds.
TheGuyOfSouthamerica
Moderator
This slaughter provides food for people.
After the shot the animal dropps to the ground and immediatelly gets cut open the throath so all the blood is pumping out.
Yes I know red meat causes cancer as have risen cancer rates in this country but nevertheless people still stick to heavy meat consumption. I personally eat no red meat at all unless I am given a part of a deer or I receive part of a lamb as gift which happens at max once a year.
I find that interesting how readily some people are talking about shooting bad guys and generally human beings on self defense. But find it cruel and unhumane to shoot an animal for food.
Some values may have gotten mixed up by them.
I am sure if you shot an human being you will have sleepless nigths and psychologically you will be affected maybe permanently in an negative manner. Just loock at soldiers PTBS and stuff at least in the movies. But maybe novadays it has gotten that far it is easier for a human shooting another human being instead of the beloved dog or cow.
I would for these reasons not be so sure to be able to pull the trigger in an SD or home defense situation.
Talking great things now is easy but will you pull the trigger in SD if the situation arises and see the need in the eyes of the assailant? I bet that face you will see in your dreams.
After the shot the animal dropps to the ground and immediatelly gets cut open the throath so all the blood is pumping out.
Yes I know red meat causes cancer as have risen cancer rates in this country but nevertheless people still stick to heavy meat consumption. I personally eat no red meat at all unless I am given a part of a deer or I receive part of a lamb as gift which happens at max once a year.
I find that interesting how readily some people are talking about shooting bad guys and generally human beings on self defense. But find it cruel and unhumane to shoot an animal for food.
Some values may have gotten mixed up by them.
I am sure if you shot an human being you will have sleepless nigths and psychologically you will be affected maybe permanently in an negative manner. Just loock at soldiers PTBS and stuff at least in the movies. But maybe novadays it has gotten that far it is easier for a human shooting another human being instead of the beloved dog or cow.
I would for these reasons not be so sure to be able to pull the trigger in an SD or home defense situation.
Talking great things now is easy but will you pull the trigger in SD if the situation arises and see the need in the eyes of the assailant? I bet that face you will see in your dreams.
I value human life as much as the next man and I don't think any of us are advocating shooting a burglar in the back as he hies it to his get-away car with your tv or toaster in his arms. I don't presume to speak for you or anyone else but my guess is that the principled aversion to taking a human life might find a new perspective if, God forbid, your wife or daughter is about to be raped or a loved one tortured and murdered.
These things do happen to people and most of them never dreamed horror was on its way to pay them a visit on some fateful night. This unfortunate reality of humanity is why some of us choose to arm ourselves and we make no apology for being able to stand in front of brutality to protect loved ones and ourselves from the hand of evil.
I'm not sure what you mean by this but there are people who have no problem with eating cows, pigs and chickens that were killed by the proxy butcher but are critical of those of us who would rather take meat that we eat with our own hands-not that I'm adverse to chowing down on a Big Mac every now and then.
Again, no apology from me for doing my own killing-oops, harvesting, to put meat on my family's table.
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Just my 2 cents....... probably not worth that 
"would you make your boyfriend stop shooting me"
This was actual dialog about 6 years ago in a report, from a bad guy was saying to a man and his girlfriend, as the guy getting shot was being hit by bullets from a 380 from the man (BG had a knife, if I remember correctly)
The message to me? The 380 wasn't getting it done.
Would it work?, YES, Is it the optimal carry round?, if a pistol is all I could get? NO
There are too many reports of lack of penetration. Bad guys dont always wear T-shirts, sometimes they may be wearing a thick leather coat.
If I have to use my CCW, I want the other guy out of the fight sooner than later. An accurate, bigger bullet will do more damage than an accurate, smaller bullet.
If the Bad guy is also armed (probably most cases), I want MY individual shots to bring as much damage to the fight as possible. I want the interaction over as quick as possible. During the interaction, bullets may be coming back at me, or around me (Think of bystanders, or family BEHIND you)
This could be the difference from me (or others) living or dying.
When you compare the bullets side by side, a good 380 self defense bullet is nearly HALF the energy of a good 9mm.
I want as much firepower as I am able to comfortably carry
The new 9mm pistols are getting tiny. Why bother with a 380?
The price of SD 9mm, is most times LESS expensive than 380 SD rounds.
The 9mm is getting much better than it was a few years back.
(My Shield in 40 is plenty small, and very comfortable.)
But..... as mentioned a 380 is better than not having a gun.
As mentioned, Pistols arent the best with "stopping power"
I wouldnt think about hunting at a distance where my bullet
fell below 1000 ft/lbs of energy. Most of my shots are within 75 yards (Texas pigs) The bullet I hunt with is puts around 1500 ft/lbs of energy at this distance. I usually get a DRT (dead right there), if I do my part, with this bullet (6.8 120g SST)
Some side by sides (I carry a HST round)
380 - 148 ft/lbs
9mm - 251 ft/lbs = 70% improvement over 380
40C - 460 ft/lbs = 216% improvement over 380
Carry what you are happy with and can accurately shoot, your odds of getting into a situation are EXTREMELY low, but know that there IS a notable difference between the 380 and the 9mm
"would you make your boyfriend stop shooting me"
This was actual dialog about 6 years ago in a report, from a bad guy was saying to a man and his girlfriend, as the guy getting shot was being hit by bullets from a 380 from the man (BG had a knife, if I remember correctly)
The message to me? The 380 wasn't getting it done.
Would it work?, YES, Is it the optimal carry round?, if a pistol is all I could get? NO
There are too many reports of lack of penetration. Bad guys dont always wear T-shirts, sometimes they may be wearing a thick leather coat.
If I have to use my CCW, I want the other guy out of the fight sooner than later. An accurate, bigger bullet will do more damage than an accurate, smaller bullet.
If the Bad guy is also armed (probably most cases), I want MY individual shots to bring as much damage to the fight as possible. I want the interaction over as quick as possible. During the interaction, bullets may be coming back at me, or around me (Think of bystanders, or family BEHIND you)
This could be the difference from me (or others) living or dying.
When you compare the bullets side by side, a good 380 self defense bullet is nearly HALF the energy of a good 9mm.
I want as much firepower as I am able to comfortably carry
The new 9mm pistols are getting tiny. Why bother with a 380?
The price of SD 9mm, is most times LESS expensive than 380 SD rounds.
The 9mm is getting much better than it was a few years back.
(My Shield in 40 is plenty small, and very comfortable.)
But..... as mentioned a 380 is better than not having a gun.
As mentioned, Pistols arent the best with "stopping power"
I wouldnt think about hunting at a distance where my bullet
fell below 1000 ft/lbs of energy. Most of my shots are within 75 yards (Texas pigs) The bullet I hunt with is puts around 1500 ft/lbs of energy at this distance. I usually get a DRT (dead right there), if I do my part, with this bullet (6.8 120g SST)
Some side by sides (I carry a HST round)
380 - 148 ft/lbs
9mm - 251 ft/lbs = 70% improvement over 380
40C - 460 ft/lbs = 216% improvement over 380
Carry what you are happy with and can accurately shoot, your odds of getting into a situation are EXTREMELY low, but know that there IS a notable difference between the 380 and the 9mm
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TheGuyOfSouthamerica
Moderator
dgludwig,
I completely second that you have said.
raping, murder, violating, torture, kidnapping People to get ransom (every time more popular in this Country I live in) is a completely other Story since evil Intention without Need is involved.
I became here in the last years more popular to kidnap People (known to be rich or not) in order to collect ransom.
Most of them have never been seen again since although the ransom was paid several times secretly to whoever claimed to be the kidnapper. Normally other People take Advantage of the Situation claiming being the Kidnappers in order to get the Money. Once the "ransom" is paid it happens those on the receiving end were not the actual Kidnappers.
Most frecuent is the armed robbery (drive by armed robbery) of smarthphones since a single cellphone stolen is worth on day salary and so if they steal 10 smarthphones per day a whole Family can live from that "Business model" very easily (if they live Long enough).
Yes in this case shoot right away.
I completely second that you have said.
raping, murder, violating, torture, kidnapping People to get ransom (every time more popular in this Country I live in) is a completely other Story since evil Intention without Need is involved.
I became here in the last years more popular to kidnap People (known to be rich or not) in order to collect ransom.
Most of them have never been seen again since although the ransom was paid several times secretly to whoever claimed to be the kidnapper. Normally other People take Advantage of the Situation claiming being the Kidnappers in order to get the Money. Once the "ransom" is paid it happens those on the receiving end were not the actual Kidnappers.
Most frecuent is the armed robbery (drive by armed robbery) of smarthphones since a single cellphone stolen is worth on day salary and so if they steal 10 smarthphones per day a whole Family can live from that "Business model" very easily (if they live Long enough).
Yes in this case shoot right away.
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Because a 9mm pistol will never get as small or as light as a .380 pistol can be. And sometimes a very compact pistol weighing under ten ounces (like a Ruger LCP) that is still chambered for a potent, if albeit minimally so, cartridge (the .380 at least beats a .32 ACP in terms of power) is just what is needed for particular situations. I personally regard "mouse" pistols like the LCP and Kel Tec 3AT as niche guns but they fill certain niches like no other handgun can.
TheGuyOfSouthamerica
Moderator
Were I am living the only carry gun can be (due to climate reasons) a very light gun and in the size of an Smartphone.
Over here typically for EDC the gun should be about around 10 oz and have no larger dimensions that around 5" Long and 4" tall to fit alongside the cellphone in the cellphone pouch (as cellphone belt pouch disguised carry Holster).
In such an "mouse" gun the recoil of the 9mm Luger would be way too much IMHO (I switched an 22 oz Plastik 9mm gun due to excessive muzzle flip and anticipating flinch).
That is why I went with the Beretta Pico 380 Auto.
Over here typically for EDC the gun should be about around 10 oz and have no larger dimensions that around 5" Long and 4" tall to fit alongside the cellphone in the cellphone pouch (as cellphone belt pouch disguised carry Holster).
In such an "mouse" gun the recoil of the 9mm Luger would be way too much IMHO (I switched an 22 oz Plastik 9mm gun due to excessive muzzle flip and anticipating flinch).
That is why I went with the Beretta Pico 380 Auto.
Try a P938...
I don't have a problem with .380, other than cost. My LCP makes my P938 look huge. With the Magguts magazine system (all my LCP magazines have them), I can carry 15 rounds of .380 in a single pocket holster (Recluse, with the extra magazine slot).
But I rarely carry the LCP anymore. When it was big in my backup role, it shared the carry time with my S&W 642-1 (.38 Special). Being issued 9mm, rather stick with the same round. Got a P938 SAS, and converted the 642 over to 9mm (Pinnacle converted cylinder, which I bought off AR15.com... allowing me to go between either caliber easily.
TheGuyOfSouthamerica
Moderator
That is what I mean.
Regards cost: yes factory ammo is more expensive (over here one round 380 Auto costs 0.8 USD and that is the cheapest).
But...
I plan to reload and cast my own bullets.Let's say the 380 Auto uses 3.0 grain of powder and I load it with the Lee 102 grain lead Round Nose cast bullet then I possibly can load it for the cost of an 22 LR round (over here about 18 US Cents). Let's say my 380 acp ammo costs me like that 0.25 USD per round.
I have as well the 120 grain Lee Truncated Cone bullet but as I look to the factory ammo they may get seated deeply to fit and that reduces room for powder (on this one I do not want to save on powder).
Defensive reloaded ammo should be loaded stiff to get Penetration and make up for eventually fragmenting lead bullets due to high Zinc Content.
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