Would you trust your life to #4 buck shot?

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armsmaster270 said:
Nothing wrong with #4 buck I don't think the FBI tested at bedroom distance which in a standard house would be 20-25 feet.
I have no argument with his evaluation of #4 buck; however, IMHO his estimation of the size of a "standard house" bedroom is excessive. As a licensed architect, of armsmaster270's generation, his numbers set up a flare. Think about it for a moment, how many of you live in a "standard house" with bedrooms the size a of 2-car garage?
In reality, the typical bedroom has a maximum minor dimension of 12-ft. (This may sound bizarre, but the 12-ft rule of thumb is based on a standard roll of carpet.). For example, given a 12 x 14-ft master bedroom, the longest distance would be a diagonal of about 18.5 ft. Subtract 3.5' for the length of a short barrel shotgun w/ shooter and another foot for the BG and you get a maximum range of something like 14-feet. This is significantly less than Super-Dave's original estimate of 15 - 20 yards. At less than 5-yards, I suspect #4 buck would be devastating.
 
OK BACK TO BASICS>

a cylinder bore shotgun on average, will spread 1 inch per yard, after about the the third yard.

A full choke shot gun, will spread about 1 inch per yard, after about the 10 yard.


We are talking about using a weapon for defense INSIDE your home, after a break in. We are not talking about assaulting a barricaded crack house, breaking motor blocks at road blocks or stopping a PRC assault on a hill in Korea. WE are talking about defending your and yours against a common burglar/crackhead/banger coming into your home with bad intents.

NOW lets look at houses, a smaller starter home is going to run about 800 square foot, a big house is about 1500 square foot on the foundation. A really nice house is going to run 2000 square foot on the foundation. Thats 40 feet by 50 feet. Now doing the math we find out the diagonal on that house is 64 feet. thats corner to corner, the longest shot possible is 20 yards. Now that makes the assumption there are no internal walls, no furniture in the way, nothing, just a big open box. Which we know is not the way homes are built, but even if this were so, that means that a average shotgun, bored cylinder, is going to deliver a 17 inch spread. (20 yards, from muzzle to far corner, is the 3 + {17 x 1}. ) thats like getting hit with 27 .22 stingers all at the same time.

Now drop that down to a more reasonable distance, like say, the top of the steps to the bottom of the steps, lets say 4 yards if you have a "grand Staircase" thats like getting 27 hits to the chest with a .22 in a 1 1/2 to 2 inch circle. Do that once or twice more, and you have what"s called hamburger.


Now not making light of all sorts of gelatin testing and what have you, I have seen the results of a 12 gauge blast at close range with just #6 six shot, and i have been shot with 6 shot at fairly long distance, and a few #6 shot penetrated across my back several inches, and that was at well over 30 yards, and maybe closer to 45. The hunting accident I helped recover a body on was a hunter shot with 6 shot at about 3 yards, as far as we could tell, and there was a hole thru the victim, the entrance appeared to be golf ball sized, and the exit was much larger. Clearly at that range penetration was complete on a human body.

Now for the do it yourself tests. get a tshirt, pack it with wet newspaper, and stack it on a log, where you have a safe back ground. Now using a tape measure, measure inside your house what might be the longest practical shot you are going to have in a home invasion. At the test sight, measure that out, then aim and shoot that wet newsprint, and see what you get.

I think you will find that you answer is self evident.


So unless you live in Buckingham Palace or are a crown prince in Saudi Arabia where you use a golf car to get around your home, a twelve gauge with 4 buck is going to be darn near perfect.


One other point rarely thought about, is miss's. If you miss with a slug or 000 buck, that miss is going to travel on a good distance, and you MIGHT at the time of need, think about that, and say to yourself, I need to wait a second to shoot or I will hit "bill and alice" next door. Shooting 4 buck, after 60 yards of so, its not going to be as lethal as a slug or 000 buck. so don't worry, shoot when the shot is there, rather than worrying.
 
I'd prefer #1 buckshot, but #4 will certainly work well for home defense. In a standard shell you get 27 pellets and you get 41 in a 3-inch shell. Your choice.

I agree, #4 Buck is acceptable, but it is as small a shot size as I would feel confident with. I would also prefer #1 or larger. Penetration tests aside, the 41 pellet, 3 inch 12 GA is a nice amount of 24 caliber holes.

Having seen what the full choke barrel puts out for patterns at HD ranges I am more than satisfied that it will incapacitate any intruder in a hurry.

What is your sense of satisfaction based on? I'm fairly certain it can't be #6 shots woeful lack of penetration. What evidence do you have that it will in fact 'incapacitate someone in a hurry'?

nemoaz said:
Only an ignorant fool uses buckshot, I always say.

LOL wut? Is that a sick joke are do you actually believe that all the smart, well informed people are using birdshot for defense?
 
Keep it on the high road, guys.

One 870 here stays loaded with 4 buck, others with 00. The one with 4 buck, not 4 birdshot, will be used in very close quarters fired more or less horizontally at ground level if at all. The others are not on ground level and will more likely be fired down at an angle.

I doubt I'd have done this if someone hadn't given me a good supply of 4 buck that patterns nicely from that barrel and a Mod tube.
 
Does anybody make a 3.5" standard velocity (i.e. not magnum, just more pellets) #4 load? I might as well take advantage of the long chamber in the 835, and while the 3.5" 18-pellet 00 loads are fine for me, my wife isn't going to be able to fire a second shot if I have one of those up front.
 
Only an ignorant fool uses buckshot, I always say.
Quite the analysis there.

This particular ignorant fool favors 00 buckshot in a 3" magnum 12 gauge chambering. Better than #4 shot? Dunno, as I've had the good fortune never to have been struck by either. But it helps me sleep at night, and when all's said and done, that's what home defense loads are all about.
 
If Gunsite is now advocating the use of birdshot for defensive shotguns, then Louis Awerbuck must have stopped teaching shotgun at that school.

When I took Gunsite's 260 (Shotgun) with Louis Awerbuck as the rangemaster, he didn't trust buckshot. He carried his shotgun loaded with slugs. He was a BIG believer in Murphy's law.
 
I was involved in a homicide investigation where the victom (large dude) was shoot across the bar room (about 50 ft) with a load of #4 buck shot. I also attended the autopsy.

Yeap I'd trust one.
 
Trust is a relative term! If all I had was a garden rake in my bedroom I would trust my life to it before getting on my knees to take a shot to the back of the head! I cannot say I TRUST any firearm of any caliber/gauge with any type projectile... It is my mind and my mindset and the following motions my body parts take in following orders from my brain that I trust. I am ready to use my firearms but always aware they may not function as planned since they are but mere inventions of moving parts. That said I prefer 00 but if all I had was 7 1/2 or even a .22lr that is what I will use.
Brent
 
3.5" standard velocity

"Magnum" in shotgun shells is deceptive. Not extra velocity. Just more lead (typically at lower velocity even). It's the extra lead that produces the extra felt recoil.

To the original question. Yes I'd trust #4 buckshot at inside the house distances. Trouble is, I've never found a #4 load that remotely approaches the pattern performance of the 00 loads I prefer. So, in my particular circumstance #4 compromises some longer distance performance with no upside for me.
 
Posted By KD5NRH
Does anybody make a 3.5" standard velocity (i.e. not magnum, just more pellets) #4 load?

Here you go - but don't expect your wife to soot more than one.

Winchester XB12L4
Shot Category - Buckshot
Gauge - 12
Length (in.) - 3-1/2
Velocity fps @ 3 ft. - 1050
# Pellets - 54
Shot Size - #4 Buck
 
Velocity fps @ 3 ft. - 1050
# Pellets - 54
Shot Size - #4 Buck

Thanks...54 pellets sounds like a really effective defense round. I'll have to add some to my next order from any of the places that carry it.
 
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