John Schwartz
Inactive
wilson133,
I know of two people who have had their homes invaded by armed men, and both were pot dealing pacifists. That is to say, they had cash, drugs, and no guns. They were targets of opportunity.
You claim that armed home invasions are on the rise. I don't know anything about that. A quick google search for "home invasion statistics" gave me a couple links.
http://www.superpages.com/supertips/home-invasion.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Home_invasion
The first link says "Though the chances of home invasion may have never occurred to you as particularly high, recent statistics suggest that this form of burglary is on the rise." That confirms what you said, sort of. It certainly leaves room for doubt. It also mentions "50 percent of home invasions involve the use of a weapon; the most common weapons used are knives or other cutting instruments." This means that 50 percent of home invasions don't involve weapons, and that invaders rarely use firearms.
In other words, that makes me feel confident that pumping the action of a shot gun will do plenty to secure my home. I know that if I broke into a guys house unarmed or carrying a knife I'd surrender to anyone with a gun. Knowing where they are is irrelevant when the odds are stacked against you like that.
Second link is wikipedia, and it says, "Few statistics are available on home invasion as a crime, because it is not technically a specific crime in most states. . . But law enforcement has been seeing the increase in "home-invasion robberies" since at least June 1995, when "home-invasion robberies" were the topic of the cover story of The FBI Law Enforcement Bulletin."
Sounds like you're probably right about the home invasions being on the rise. However, statistics are still unclear, and after a quick search I haven't been able to find any break down for invasions of drug dealers versus other homes.
Back to pumping the action. You say it's a myth, and you're probably right in certain cases. If I lived in a very high crime area, or one where heavily armed gangs routinely invade people's homes, I'd probably keep five shells of buckshot in the tube, and one in the chamber. Where I'm from though, in the suburbs, most people don't even own guns. If I were dumb enough to break into a home, and I heard a shot gun getting pumped, I'd crap my pants. I'm not fighting a guy with a shotgun. That's just not worth it. I'd surrender, get arrested and maybe wind up locked up for a month with a suspended sentence of a couple years. That's much better than risking my life in a fight I probably won't win. The idiots I knew growing up who've been arrested for B&E would do the exact same thing. They weren't trying to get shot, they were trying to steal easily fenced items.
As far as warning shots go, you're right that they're not legally protected. I'd still rather explain a warning shot than a shot to kill. Police and prosecutors have a lot of discretion in dealing with things like that, and if you've got a decent lawyer and a clean record you'll probably get away with it. It all depends on circumstances. You can't shoot a warning shot at an unarmed intruder, and you wouldn't bother if they posed an immediate threat, but if they've got a knife (the most common weapon used in a home invasion), and they're across the room, shooting them in the feet is a way to end the situation without killing them.
As far as birdshot being ineffective, if you pointed a shotgun at my face and said that it was loaded with a trap load, I wouldn't think "ballistic gel blah blah blah." I think, "Holy crap, my eyes are about to be turned to goo." You don't have to kill every single person you see. Most situations can be resolved without ending someone's life.
You talk about training and experience, it makes me wonder. What kind of training? What kind of experience? Has you home been invaded by armed gangs multiple times? As far as I know you're an anonymous guy on a message board. What I've seen doesn't impress me. I've seen a bunch of Rambo wannabes talking about how getting shot with birdshot is just gonna **** you off, and how #4 buck isn't good enough for home defense. Swear to God, if you shot me with birdshot from across a room, I would do whatever you told me to do. If you shot me with #4 I'd probably be dead.
Capt. Mike knows that much. If he, or somebody else with a lick of sense, says that pumping the action is a myth, I'll believe him. I'm just sharing my own limited experience with you guys. I'm willing to be educated, I'm just not willing to swallow bull.
I know of two people who have had their homes invaded by armed men, and both were pot dealing pacifists. That is to say, they had cash, drugs, and no guns. They were targets of opportunity.
You claim that armed home invasions are on the rise. I don't know anything about that. A quick google search for "home invasion statistics" gave me a couple links.
http://www.superpages.com/supertips/home-invasion.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Home_invasion
The first link says "Though the chances of home invasion may have never occurred to you as particularly high, recent statistics suggest that this form of burglary is on the rise." That confirms what you said, sort of. It certainly leaves room for doubt. It also mentions "50 percent of home invasions involve the use of a weapon; the most common weapons used are knives or other cutting instruments." This means that 50 percent of home invasions don't involve weapons, and that invaders rarely use firearms.
In other words, that makes me feel confident that pumping the action of a shot gun will do plenty to secure my home. I know that if I broke into a guys house unarmed or carrying a knife I'd surrender to anyone with a gun. Knowing where they are is irrelevant when the odds are stacked against you like that.
Second link is wikipedia, and it says, "Few statistics are available on home invasion as a crime, because it is not technically a specific crime in most states. . . But law enforcement has been seeing the increase in "home-invasion robberies" since at least June 1995, when "home-invasion robberies" were the topic of the cover story of The FBI Law Enforcement Bulletin."
Sounds like you're probably right about the home invasions being on the rise. However, statistics are still unclear, and after a quick search I haven't been able to find any break down for invasions of drug dealers versus other homes.
Back to pumping the action. You say it's a myth, and you're probably right in certain cases. If I lived in a very high crime area, or one where heavily armed gangs routinely invade people's homes, I'd probably keep five shells of buckshot in the tube, and one in the chamber. Where I'm from though, in the suburbs, most people don't even own guns. If I were dumb enough to break into a home, and I heard a shot gun getting pumped, I'd crap my pants. I'm not fighting a guy with a shotgun. That's just not worth it. I'd surrender, get arrested and maybe wind up locked up for a month with a suspended sentence of a couple years. That's much better than risking my life in a fight I probably won't win. The idiots I knew growing up who've been arrested for B&E would do the exact same thing. They weren't trying to get shot, they were trying to steal easily fenced items.
As far as warning shots go, you're right that they're not legally protected. I'd still rather explain a warning shot than a shot to kill. Police and prosecutors have a lot of discretion in dealing with things like that, and if you've got a decent lawyer and a clean record you'll probably get away with it. It all depends on circumstances. You can't shoot a warning shot at an unarmed intruder, and you wouldn't bother if they posed an immediate threat, but if they've got a knife (the most common weapon used in a home invasion), and they're across the room, shooting them in the feet is a way to end the situation without killing them.
As far as birdshot being ineffective, if you pointed a shotgun at my face and said that it was loaded with a trap load, I wouldn't think "ballistic gel blah blah blah." I think, "Holy crap, my eyes are about to be turned to goo." You don't have to kill every single person you see. Most situations can be resolved without ending someone's life.
You talk about training and experience, it makes me wonder. What kind of training? What kind of experience? Has you home been invaded by armed gangs multiple times? As far as I know you're an anonymous guy on a message board. What I've seen doesn't impress me. I've seen a bunch of Rambo wannabes talking about how getting shot with birdshot is just gonna **** you off, and how #4 buck isn't good enough for home defense. Swear to God, if you shot me with birdshot from across a room, I would do whatever you told me to do. If you shot me with #4 I'd probably be dead.
Capt. Mike knows that much. If he, or somebody else with a lick of sense, says that pumping the action is a myth, I'll believe him. I'm just sharing my own limited experience with you guys. I'm willing to be educated, I'm just not willing to swallow bull.
