Wolf ammunition, is it really that bad?

I have a decent amount of Wolf ammo on hand in a few calibers and have found it to be good reliable effective ammo that is worth at least what I paid for it.

My go to PDR (Property Defense Rifle) is a plain old cheap SKS Para with a rubber butt extender for a non slip butt and a length of pull suitable for a western frame. Short 3 slot 10 dollar pinned compensator. Trigger job did wonders. It is short, compact, dead reliable, easy to hit with, and holds 10 rounds with a bag of stripper clips on hand. Stripper clips are loaded with new commercial Wolf HPs.
 
I reload .223 and 30-06. I load .223 for highpower competition and I load '06 for Garand matches.

Some people enjoy loading I do not. I have to load for highpower because the ammo I need on the 600 yard line can't be bought anywhere that I know of and even if it could be bought I could not afford it.

If I had to load all the .223 that I plink with and practice my combat type shooting and practice my standing highpower position I would be behind a press all day every day.

Wolf provides me with enough ammo for that purpose. My AR's run 100% with Wolf.

Back in the good old days I could buy good LC brass case ball ammo for $85 for 500 rounds. In those days Wolf was not such a bargin. Today it is.
 
"For the average shooter, steel case russian ammo is perfectly fine. NORMAL shooting; which means no artificial contraptions for holding the rifle still; the steel case ammo will do a fine job at hitting your target. I do 4" square with NO MAGNIFICATION sights. That is perfectly fine for me or most people. So don't say it's not accurate"

We used to be a nation of riflemen but today we have become a nation of sandbaggers where we have to have a 2,000lb concrete bench and sandbags before we can shoot. That is sad.
 
Even if it cost me twice what it cost me now I would reload and I still would not shoot wolf. You guys keep talking like everyone shoots of a lead sled or something, well you must have me mixed up with someone else.I have been shooting and hunting since I was a kid. I spent 8yrs. in the army. I am a rifleman. I reload becouse I want good, cheap ammo. usually you cant have both. Buy wolf if you want cheap. Buy some company's overpriced match if you want good. I dont care what you shoot, or how you shoot it. Just dont call wolf quality ammo or accurate ammo becouse its far from both.
 
I guess it depends on what you define as quality and/or accurate. 4" square, shooting off hand or possibly leaning across a bench. And that's putting all 30 rounds from a magazine into that area. This is done with iron sights. And if I think about all the rounds that didn't go BANG, out of the thousands of rounds of steel case ammo I've shot; I think it might.... I use that word liberally.... MIGHT be counted on 1 hand.

Again, quality and accurate are relative terms. Am I trying to shoot a quarter taped to an apple, or am I trying to shoot the apple. For you, shooting off hand with iron sights, in a 4" square, at 100 yards, obviously isn't accurate enough. No problem. Shoot what you want. The problem you're facing is; you've found a couple of reloaders, who have reloaded quite a bit. And we don't happen to agree with your justification on reloading when it pertains to cost or quality. There is no doubt that reloading can produce ammo that is more accurate. But again; more accurate is only necessary for certain requirements. And that's up to the individual. And yes, wolf and other steel ammo can most definitely be considered accurate and quality ammunition. If it fits the need of the person shooting it, and it always goes bang, then for them, it's quality and accurate ammunition. Who are you to say it isn't. Why do you drive the car that you do. Why don't you own a Mercedes? Don't you want better quality? Or is the car that you have perfectly good quality for what you use it for.

You're pompous enough to demand that we don't call wolf quality or accurate ammo, yet you don't want us to critique you on your choice to reload. A little hypocritical; don't you think? The problem is, most of everything you are saying, you are contradicting yourself. You say you can reload cheaper that buying steel case ammo. Actually; that is true. Unfortunately, you say it's costing you $0.28 per round. (less than $6 a box). Well guess what. MOST ALL STEEL CASE AMMO is less than that. Most is in the $4-$5 range. Many in the $3.50+ range. You say that the russian ammo isn't quality. Yet, no one here has mentioned ever having issues where the ammunition didn't go bang and hit it's target. Then you claim it isn't accurate. Yet a number of people here have claimed being able to shoot quite accurately with it. Sorry; but all your claims and accusations are pretty bogus.

There isn't one person here who has said that it isn't cheaper to reload. (Assuming you already have the reloading gear; if starting new, it will take approximately 8,000 rounds to break even). We agree that it's cheaper. No one here has said that reloads aren't generally more accurate. We agree, of course they usually are. Not one person has argued ANY of the better qualities of reloads compared to russian steel case ammo. What we have disagreed with you on is your "Pregnancy Theory" when it comes to steel case russian ammo. Pregnancy meaning: You ARE or you AREN'T. There's no middle ground for you. For you, RELOADS=QUALITY AND ACCURACY..... WOLF/RUSSIAN=NO QUALITY AND NO ACCURACY. Well, Bucky... I've got some news for you. There's a LOT OF IN BETWEEN. And that, is why you are getting frustrated. Wolf/Russian ammo definitely has quality. Is it as HIGH as reloads? Probably not. But that doesn't mean is doesn't have ANY quality. And Wolf/Russian ammo definitely has accuracy. Is it as accurate as reloads? Most times, not. But that doesn't mean it isn't accurate at all. Stop being a gun snob and you won't receive so many negative comments.
 
Im not going to argue with you about groups. I understand wolf ammo will group well sometimes. I understand it doesnt always have to so its fine for its intended use. I dont care what you call it. accurate, inaccurate, awesome, whatever. So becouse I dont care for wolf ammo that makes me a gun snob or as you say, pompus. really? Last time I checked I was entitled to my opinion.

As far as reloading goes bucky, I'll just say this. I have been reloading long enough to know if its cost effective or not. I have alot of components that I have very little if any money in. There is no way I can get this quality of bullet at the gun shop without paying out the wazzou for. Thats why I reload, not so I can hang over a 2000lb. bench trying to shoot dime sized groups.
 
Wow! You are too funny. You think I'm criticizing you for having an opinion? That's so cool. You must not read anything that you post. This will be my last post in response to you. You'll be able to retort anything you want. But let me just refresh your so called "Opinions". You told us.

"DON'T CALL WOLF AMMO QUALITY OR ACCURATE AMMO".
"I want good, cheap ammo. usually you cant have both. Buy wolf if you want cheap. Buy some company's overpriced match if you want good."
"some of you people spend over a grand on a rifle because you have to have the best. Then you turn around and shoot the worst ammo on the planet through your precious AR"

I could go on. If you think these are simply "Opinions", with no undertone, then have at it. Rarely if ever did you say: "I think". Maybe you don't. But saying "I think" or something similar implies an "Opinion". You were trying hard to give authoritative facts. Unfortunately, the whole concept of which ammo is BEST to shoot is subjective. "Best" is relative to the purpose at hand. This however is the concept that you simply can not comprehend. What is best for you, isn't necessarily best for someone else. But you sure do want to convince people that you do know what's best FOR THEM. Everyone else here with an opinion acknowledges the advantages of reloading, and that for some people, it is the best. But they also recognize that for some people, wolf, barnaul, bear, mfs, tula, etc... actually IS THE BEST. Again; a concept you can't comprehend.

And remember; this is a forum. Basically, it is the land of make believe. Everyone here is anonymous. So, your credentials, experiences, etc... are really insignificant. 1st: Anything you or anyone else claims, could be totally made up. You, I, anyone could be a 16 year old kid. 2nd: Any accolade you claim about yourself, there's at least 10 others posting that probably has more experience. Just like you could have more experience than some others. In other words; the means of persuasion in discussions on a forum, are things you can prove or argue with logic. Anything about yourself is irrelevant. Anyway; have at it. Respond if you want. I will respond to the thread if it continues, but I won't respond directly to you. I feel that we can go no further with our debate, and I'd rather neither of us get personal. So, enjoy your reloading. It's definitely can be a fun hobby. I use to really enjoy it. And hopefully you'll be able to enjoy it for years to come.

For those who don't want to reload .223 ammo; for whatever reason; russian steel case ammo is definitely an inexpensive option for punching paper and having fun. If you just want to burn up 300 rounds of ammo in an hour or two, and you don't care what the letters MOA mean, then you can shoot various russian steel case ammo for about $4 a box of 20 and have a lot of fun. It is reliable ammo. It will always go bang. It will do a great job at hitting your target. But only you can decide if it's good enough. No 2 guns are alike; so you may find that you have to try different brands to see what you and the rifle likes best. It isn't going to hurt your rifle. And most people don't have any issues with the ammo. But there are a couple things to keep in mind. Clean your rifle more often when shooting steel case ammo. Steel expands less than brass and doesn't make as tight of a seal in the chamber. Doesn't do any harm, but it allows blowback of powder and carbon to get on the sides of the barrel/chamber. This can build up some over enough rounds. Just clean your barrel/chamber a little more often. If your rifle isn't too picky; most aren't; and you aren't into competition or mega long range shooting for accuracy (300+ yards), then steel case ammo might be a decent option for you. Have Fun. Shoot often. Shoot safe.
 
Is this guy for real? Ok wolf users... I dont care for it at all. If you shoot it thats fine. I dont think any less of someone for shooting wolf ammo. All Im trying to say is I can reload cheaper than I can buy any brass cased ammo. I have done that alot, and over the years I have accumulated a pretty nice pile of ammo. So I dont have to buy wolf. I usually only buy brass cased so I can use the brass if I buy any. I have shot it before and I didnt care for it. Plain and simple. A couple of you guys need to chill out.
 
I am going back about 15 years, maybe Wolf got better. I was shooting my 7.62x39 bolt action and had a miss fire. Luckily, I saw the case roll across the table when I extracted it. The case was empty and the bullet was jammed up the barrel a couple inches from the primer going off. It was a good thing I saw that empty case. Had I chambered another round things could have gotten exciting. I had another round from the same box do the same thing. That was the end of Wolf ammo for me. What ever the coating was that was on the early ammo was very abrasive and probably put a lot of wear on the chambers if you shot enough of it.
I also used some copper washed ammo, the first to enter the country in soft-point, and had issues. It was way before there was a Wolf ammo and it came in a green box. The ammo was 7.62x54 and the rim had so many burrs on the rim that it chewed up the face of the rifle chamber. It was one of those old hex receiver rifles and probably had close head space as opposed to a war production model, but I was not going to sit there and file my ammo. I don't care if it got better or not, I won't use it.
 
We bought some Wolf to see if it would work for rifle quals. Everybody had problems. I had several where the primer went off but someone forgot to drill the flash hole. We stuck a few cases in the chamber and had to use a cleaning rod to get the case out. We sent it back.
 
Wolf ammunition, is it really that bad?

I wouldn't say bad, but rather inconsistent, so much so that there was a perceptible difference in recoil between rounds at times. OK for plinking but I wouldn't trust my life to it.
 
Sturmgewere, I didn't realize you were a member over here. I posted your video a little earlier in it's own thread. Hope you don't mind, but I thought it deserved it's own thread.
 
Hey Don, thanks. :) I only posted it to this thread because it was kind of the impetus behind my video today. I've seen many discussions about Wolf, but this week when I saw this one it got me to planning out the details for this weeks content.
 
That's another excellent, descriptive video you made.

According to a gun smith's evaluations, stuck brass cases in lots of Mini 30s were also caused by careless owners who first used steel, which happened to have lacquer-coatings.
Lacquer was not the cause.

He determined that they did not clean their guns when using rigid steel cases, and then used brass ammo, which allowed the softer, expanding brass cases to get stuck in the the chamber's accumulated dirt.

Maybe such careless rifle owners first should have bought a Mosin Nagant bolt-action, as they decide whether they need to own a semi-auto.
 
I am glad you posted the video. For a lot of people however, your detailed explanation will carry no more validity that any of our discussion in the forums. But maybe someone with consider that being you spent actual time producing such a video, that there may be some truth to it. Can't tell you how many people, for many years, I've tried to explain how steel case ammunition will not harm their weapons, and why sometimes there are issues like sticking cases. They simply want to believe that all ammo should act exactly the same as the winchester ammo they buy in the store.

Similar arguments have gone on for year with people about corrosive ammunition. The word corrosive alone is enough for people to panic and say how they'll never shoot that through their M1 Garand or other precious military rifles. Little do they know, those surplus military weapons probably shot more corrosive surplus ammo than they'll ever send down the barrel. And when you try to explain that the corrosive part is basically salt, and if they'll simply clean their rifle with some warm soapy water prior to cleaning it normally with hoppe #9, or whatever they use, then they'll get the salt off the barrel, chamber, and bolt; and the the rifle will be as good as before they shot the corrosive ammo.

But alas; ignorance is something that some people refuse to learn from. They like their head in the sand. Corrosive ammo, steel case ammo, paranoid their weapon (Majority of weapons) will blow up if they dry fire it without snap caps, etc... And of course, their ignorance ends in: "Well, I'd rather be safe than sorry". That's not knowledge, that's rationalization. But it is their lives. Anyone who understand Star Wars may understand.

4162010103911AM_sw_ignorance.jpg
 
my only question as to using wolf .223 ammo,i am an avid owner of rifles, and shoot regularly at the range with a different toy every time, but ive not hunted in almost 15 years...

the new bushmaster ORC i plan on getting is going to be a coyote gun. will wolf .223 ammo be good enough for a killzone shot at 75-150 yards?

i shoot bulk federal reloads from the local police armorer through my .223 but if i buy 500 rounds i am not allowed to take any of that ammunition off the range, it goes back as "credit" for my next visit. the m17s i shoot them through patterns inside 1 inch at 100 yards, and the rifle itself is WAY more accurate than i currently am.

would wolf be ok to start out with for varmint? or should i look in to better ammo?
 
M17; you'll have to try it and find out. Wolf will be accurate enough for coyotes. But I have to say; it seems that many times I've heard of people having issues with steel case ammo and an AR; many times it seems to be Bushmaster owners. Not saying yours will. And I firmly believe that with most of those owners, a simply $20 "H" or H2" buffer would fix their problem. As Sturm mentioned, some rifles have a "timing" problem. Whereby they are trying to extract prior to the ammo finishing firing. We're talking mill-seconds. A heavier buffer can slow down the extraction process a little. Again, this is just my observation. (That a lot of bushmaster owners complain). Then again; there's a lot of bushmaster owners who have shot a lot of russian steel case ammo without any problems. Buy 2 or 3 boxes and shoot some targets. Then you'll know. It's not like you have to buy a case. FWIW: Walmart sells TulAmmo. It's russian. Costs about $4.97 per box of 20. Buy a couple boxes and try it out.
 
CC tyvm for the info, and ill have to take my orc up to the gunsmith for work on the gas timing, though it wont effect the way it shoots better ammo will it?

like i said im a newb to the actual workings of a gas powered rifle like the ar15. i trained with and shot the m16a4 in basic, but got a little boogered up in the first week of airborne school and never used the rifle under any harsher conditions than on the range. and i know this ORC will have my full attention for a long time
 
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