brian45auto
New member
my one and only ar has never seen a brass case....nor will it.
i even play around and reload some of the steel cases every now and again.
i even play around and reload some of the steel cases every now and again.
Wolf ammunition, is it really that bad?
- Thread starter Kimio
- Start date
I've never had any problems whatsoever with Wolf, or any other brand of steel-cased ammo. If a gun can't handle it, I think the problem is the gun. If Century Arms of all manufacturers can put together a gun that runs flawlessly on Wolf and any other brand of ammo you choose to use, then more reputable makers should be able to do the same.
DonR101395
New member
There is no way steel case ammo messed up the extractor unless it was tool steel cased ammo. Extractors are made from much harder steel than ammo cases.
I shoot about 10 cases of Wolf a year in 9mm, .45, and .223 and have for several years. I haven't noticed it wearing any parts faster that brass case ammo.
christcorp
New member
If the case isn't getting stuck in the chamber, then the extractor isn't getting any undue pressure on it. The case simply extracts. Plus; the "Steel" that the case is made of, is a lot thinner and cheaper quality of steel, then what the extractor is made of. The extractor isn't going to get harmed by normal steel case operations. Again; if a case totally gets stuck in the chamber, which is usually a BRASS CASE after shooting a lot of steel case ammo, then the extractor could get some abuse. But very little.
Here's some numbers though: All based on average savings of $4 per box of steel case ammo vs $7 per box low end brass case ammo like PMC Bronze
1. Shoot 4 boxes (80 rounds) of steel case ammo: Saved enough money to replace an AR extractor. ($12)
2. Shoot 16 boxes (320 rounds). Saved enough money to buy a new AR Bolt. ($50)
3. Shoot 48 boxes (960 rounds). Saved enough money to buy a complete new AR Bolt Carrier Group. ($150)
4. Shoot 144 boxes (2880 rounds). Saved enough to buy a new complete Upper Receiver. Possibly a 2nd caliber. ($450)
5. Shoot 250 boxes (5000 rounds). Saved enough to buy or build most decent AR Rifle Platforms. ($750).
For what it's worth; if I shoot 400 rounds a month, I'll shoot the 5000 rounds in 1 year. (I have a lot of guns, so shooting 5000 rounds in 1 gun is pretty difficult). But for an average shooter who might shoot 100-200 rounds a month, you'd save enough money in 2 years to buy a brand new AR rifle.
Oh well. I definitely have no problem shooting steel case ammo. It is fun to watch a person in the lane next to me at the range shooting their .223 brass ammo and savoring it like a kid with a small piece of chocolate. Shoot one shot. Look at it with the scope. Be amazed. Shoot another. Repeat the process. An hour later, they've gone through about 100 rounds. They'll probably be back next month or the month after. I can shoot usually twice the ammo as them, plus I can buy it in better bulk prices. If your weapon can shoot a particular steel case ammo, you deserve to try it. You get to shoot a whole lot more and have a whole lot more fun.
Here's some numbers though: All based on average savings of $4 per box of steel case ammo vs $7 per box low end brass case ammo like PMC Bronze
1. Shoot 4 boxes (80 rounds) of steel case ammo: Saved enough money to replace an AR extractor. ($12)
2. Shoot 16 boxes (320 rounds). Saved enough money to buy a new AR Bolt. ($50)
3. Shoot 48 boxes (960 rounds). Saved enough money to buy a complete new AR Bolt Carrier Group. ($150)
4. Shoot 144 boxes (2880 rounds). Saved enough to buy a new complete Upper Receiver. Possibly a 2nd caliber. ($450)
5. Shoot 250 boxes (5000 rounds). Saved enough to buy or build most decent AR Rifle Platforms. ($750).
For what it's worth; if I shoot 400 rounds a month, I'll shoot the 5000 rounds in 1 year. (I have a lot of guns, so shooting 5000 rounds in 1 gun is pretty difficult). But for an average shooter who might shoot 100-200 rounds a month, you'd save enough money in 2 years to buy a brand new AR rifle.
Oh well. I definitely have no problem shooting steel case ammo. It is fun to watch a person in the lane next to me at the range shooting their .223 brass ammo and savoring it like a kid with a small piece of chocolate. Shoot one shot. Look at it with the scope. Be amazed. Shoot another. Repeat the process. An hour later, they've gone through about 100 rounds. They'll probably be back next month or the month after. I can shoot usually twice the ammo as them, plus I can buy it in better bulk prices. If your weapon can shoot a particular steel case ammo, you deserve to try it. You get to shoot a whole lot more and have a whole lot more fun.
Ignition Override
New member
Maybe you don't shoot 7.62x39, but my Norinco SKS has never had any hang-ups.
Would the Russians produce ammo which would often cause breakage in western semi-auto rifles (i.e. AR/Sig/HK)?
Even the Mini 30 has used about 1,500 rds. and only had about eight FTF on the first pin strike: none on the second. Have had no other glitches, and the rifle is kept clean.
As for neglect, why treat the SKS or AK worse than how the better AR owners treat theirs....just because these were designed/produced in communist countries?
"Small world" as they say. I'm ordering 1,000 rds from one of two well-known distributors on Thursday.
Would the Russians produce ammo which would often cause breakage in western semi-auto rifles (i.e. AR/Sig/HK)?
Even the Mini 30 has used about 1,500 rds. and only had about eight FTF on the first pin strike: none on the second. Have had no other glitches, and the rifle is kept clean.
As for neglect, why treat the SKS or AK worse than how the better AR owners treat theirs....just because these were designed/produced in communist countries?
"Small world" as they say. I'm ordering 1,000 rds from one of two well-known distributors on Thursday.
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jcsturgeon
New member
I have never had a problem with the Wolf pistol ammo, .45 and .40 always seemed to work well. I have had problems shooting 7.62 x 39 though. On more than one occasion, using more than one box I've gotten a lot of duds. About 5 per box of 20. Pull the trigger, firing pin engages the primer, wait about 10-20 seconds and nothing happens. Extract the dud, see a clear dent in the primer, wonder what the hell just happened and give it to the range master. Repeat.
From now on I'm only shooting brass out of my AK and I'm going to start re-loading it too.
From now on I'm only shooting brass out of my AK and I'm going to start re-loading it too.
I've shot somewhere in the neighborhood of 2,500 rounds of steel cased Wolf 7.62 in my SKS and roughly 1,100 rounds of steel cased Wolf 9mm Mak in my CZ-82.
On the whole it's been shootable though not especially accurate. In my opinion it fouls things up a little more than other brands but that's not really any big deal to me.
I inspect carefully before shooting and have found a couple of mis-loaded 7.62 rounds and a set of five deeply seated 9mm mak rounds (all next to each other in the same box) but that's it. I had a cluster (I don't know how many in a row) of 7.62 misfires (all from the same box) where repeated attempts failed to cause the rounds to go off. Playing with a Chrony has shown a pretty wide variation in velocity (which probably has a lot to do with the less than stellar accuracy).
I don't think I would run steel cased ammo in my "generation" guns (the stuff I plan to keep in the family for generations) but my Com-Bloc milsurp guns eat it up fine and don't show any signs of excessive wear or other problems.
On the whole, I don't think there's anything wrong with using it for "plinking" ammo but I surely wouldn't hunt with it.
On the whole it's been shootable though not especially accurate. In my opinion it fouls things up a little more than other brands but that's not really any big deal to me.
I inspect carefully before shooting and have found a couple of mis-loaded 7.62 rounds and a set of five deeply seated 9mm mak rounds (all next to each other in the same box) but that's it. I had a cluster (I don't know how many in a row) of 7.62 misfires (all from the same box) where repeated attempts failed to cause the rounds to go off. Playing with a Chrony has shown a pretty wide variation in velocity (which probably has a lot to do with the less than stellar accuracy).
I don't think I would run steel cased ammo in my "generation" guns (the stuff I plan to keep in the family for generations) but my Com-Bloc milsurp guns eat it up fine and don't show any signs of excessive wear or other problems.
On the whole, I don't think there's anything wrong with using it for "plinking" ammo but I surely wouldn't hunt with it.
There are three answers to the question, IMO, since Wolf ammo comes in two different forms for centerfire rifles and is manufactured by lots of different sources, some of which are questionable. And, of course, Wolf makes .22LR ammo that is quite different and is made by just one source - SK Lapua.
1) For centerfire ammo, steel case Wolf is shootable and usually low cost but generally is not very accurate when compared with other factory ammo.
For .223, Wolf steel case makes my very accurate CZ 527 bolt action look bad with groups right around 2 inches - I'd classify it as junk in both 55 and 62 grain for a rifle that shoots both bullet weights under 0.5 inches on averages for hand loads and under 0.6 inches for good factory ammo.
For a Colt HBAR .223 with a 1:7 twist barrel, Wolf Steel case shot both 55 and 75 grain ammo 2.4 inches and 2.5 inches respectively on average at 100 yards. That HBAR will shoot under 1 MOA for 77 grain ammo it likes and averages just over 1 MOA for 75 to 77 grain factory ammo.
2) For centerfire ammo, Wolf Gold with brass cases sometimes shoots better than the Wolf steel case, but it depends upon the caliber and the source of the ammo that Wolf contracts for since they don't make their own.
For .22-250, Wolf Gold 55 grain soft point (brass cases) shoots 1.3 inches in a rifle that shoots under 0.7 inches for hand loads all day long. I expected better from the higher priced Wolf Gold brass case ammo.
For .308, Wolf Gold FMJ 150 grain ammo shot reasonably well in my Savage 10 FP (averaging .95 inches at 100 yards) in a rifle that averages 0.76 for 150 grain ammo. That isn't too bad for the brass case ammo. The Brass Case shot even better in my buddy's Savage 10 FP (averaging 0.75 at 100 yards) which was 0.2 inches better than any other factory 150 grain ammo in his rifle. Both rifles are very partial to 168 grain ammo and both average under 0.6 for hundreds of groups.
In the Colt HBAR .223 Wolf Gold 75 grain shoots 0.5 inches better than Wolf Steel case ammo at 1.9 inches but that is still almost double what good factory ammo shoots in that rifle.
3) The big exception is the 22LR Wolf Match Target and Match extra ammo that is manufactured at the SK Jard factory in Germany. That is great match ammo and shoots as good as anything in 7 rifles (3 bolt actions and 4 10-22 rifles that have been extensively tuned). We have shot over 500 measured groups with and about 50 groups in my Ruger Mark II Competition pistol. At least one of the two ammos is in the top two favorite ammos for all 7 rifles and Match Traget is in the top three for all 7. Match Target also has gotten rave reviews from anyone at our range who has shot it alongside any other ammo. There are a few ammos that shoot almost as well in a particular rifle and one or two that shoot better in some rifles, but for the cost, the Wolf 22LR ammo is probably the best buy around for match ammo.
1) For centerfire ammo, steel case Wolf is shootable and usually low cost but generally is not very accurate when compared with other factory ammo.
For .223, Wolf steel case makes my very accurate CZ 527 bolt action look bad with groups right around 2 inches - I'd classify it as junk in both 55 and 62 grain for a rifle that shoots both bullet weights under 0.5 inches on averages for hand loads and under 0.6 inches for good factory ammo.
For a Colt HBAR .223 with a 1:7 twist barrel, Wolf Steel case shot both 55 and 75 grain ammo 2.4 inches and 2.5 inches respectively on average at 100 yards. That HBAR will shoot under 1 MOA for 77 grain ammo it likes and averages just over 1 MOA for 75 to 77 grain factory ammo.
2) For centerfire ammo, Wolf Gold with brass cases sometimes shoots better than the Wolf steel case, but it depends upon the caliber and the source of the ammo that Wolf contracts for since they don't make their own.
For .22-250, Wolf Gold 55 grain soft point (brass cases) shoots 1.3 inches in a rifle that shoots under 0.7 inches for hand loads all day long. I expected better from the higher priced Wolf Gold brass case ammo.
For .308, Wolf Gold FMJ 150 grain ammo shot reasonably well in my Savage 10 FP (averaging .95 inches at 100 yards) in a rifle that averages 0.76 for 150 grain ammo. That isn't too bad for the brass case ammo. The Brass Case shot even better in my buddy's Savage 10 FP (averaging 0.75 at 100 yards) which was 0.2 inches better than any other factory 150 grain ammo in his rifle. Both rifles are very partial to 168 grain ammo and both average under 0.6 for hundreds of groups.
In the Colt HBAR .223 Wolf Gold 75 grain shoots 0.5 inches better than Wolf Steel case ammo at 1.9 inches but that is still almost double what good factory ammo shoots in that rifle.
3) The big exception is the 22LR Wolf Match Target and Match extra ammo that is manufactured at the SK Jard factory in Germany. That is great match ammo and shoots as good as anything in 7 rifles (3 bolt actions and 4 10-22 rifles that have been extensively tuned). We have shot over 500 measured groups with and about 50 groups in my Ruger Mark II Competition pistol. At least one of the two ammos is in the top two favorite ammos for all 7 rifles and Match Traget is in the top three for all 7. Match Target also has gotten rave reviews from anyone at our range who has shot it alongside any other ammo. There are a few ammos that shoot almost as well in a particular rifle and one or two that shoot better in some rifles, but for the cost, the Wolf 22LR ammo is probably the best buy around for match ammo.
wnycollector
New member
I have put thousands of wolf ammo through my pistols and rifles in the last 20 years without serious incident. I have used wolf in 7.62x25, 7.62x39, 223, 5.45x39, .308, 8mm, 9mm, .40 and .45. Some of my favorite wolf ammo is their black box 308 150gr FMJ, gold .308 150gr FMJ, black box .223 75gr HP and wolf mil classic 7.62x39 124gr HP.
christcorp
New member
It all depends on the individual and WHY they shoot. When i shoot "Paper",,,,, well, it's PAPER. Like I care if I'm shooting groups at 2-3" at 100 yards instead of .5" at 100 yards. IT'S PAPER!!! I shoot at the paper because it's fun. (And the paper won't shoot back). Yes, before hunting season, I re-sight my scopes and ammo for 300+ yard shots. It matters what i shoot. If I was practicing for marksman competitions, it also would matter to me. But to go out on a saturday and shoot a couple hundred rounds..... Who gives a crap if it's a 2" group instead of 0.5" at 100 yards..... It's PAPER!!! So what!
put 500 rds of wolf .308 thru my M1A at an appleseed last april. it was fine ammo. My M1A usually eats mil surplus (dag, s&b, Radway, H&P, etc...) so by comparison its a little dirty, less accurate and cant be reloaded (though not all mil surp can be either).
if u find it for a good deal use it
if u find it for a good deal use it
Bamashooter
New member
personally I think wolf and tula .223 ammo is junk. I wouldnt use any of it unless I had to. My mini has shot over 1000rds. trouble free until a buddy gave me some wolf to try. It was like it didnt have enough power to push the bolt back far enough to eject the spent shell. Popped in some of my reloads and it was business as usual. I dont even like shooting wolf in my mosin's becouse it gummes up the chamber and gives it the classic sticky bolt syndrome. You guys who like it and shoot it, more power to you.