Wolf ammunition, is it really that bad?

I've heard some 'off the wall' things being said here, so I will state my opinion and move on.

Wolf ammo is steel cased ammo with a hot melt varnish applied.

This is ok if you are firing a non-SAAMI spec firearm like an imported AK clone, Milsurp FAL, etc ... The reason it causes failures in modern firearms is because of 2 major problems in the design.

1) Rapid fire of the rifle or pistol heats the barrel / chamber and melts the varnish. This leaves a slight film in your chamber that is next to impossible to remove unless you really work at it. After 500+ rounds you can really tell the difference. If you aren't careful ... you can throw your rifle out of spec fast, and cause some really high pressures in the chamber due to the buildup.

2) Steel cased ammo does not have the flex that brass cased ammo has. Brass will expand inside the chamber once fired, and when the pressures subside ... the brass shrinks. Steel doesn't always do this. It retains 99% of it's shape once it has been fired.

Shoot it if you want to, but I choose not to.
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Who taught you this stuff? Tell you what. Get yourself a lacquer coated wolf, Barnaul, or whatever. Pull the bullet and dump the powder. You can pop the primer if you want too. Now hit that empty brass with a butane or propane torch. You're not going to melt off any lacquer. You're simply regurgitating bad information.

You were ALMOST right with your second answer. The steel cases don't expand as "WELL" as brass cases. As such, the case does not create as good of a seal in the chamber. As such, you will get some carbon/powder residue blow back that goes past the sides of the casing and dirties up the chamber. Now; if you shoot a few hundred rounds, and never clean your rifle, and follow it up with some brass ammo, then you do risk the chance of a some stuck cases. But it's not because the steel shell expanded and couldn't return to normal state. If so, then it wouldn't explain why it's usually brass cases that get stuck. Matter of fact, it wouldn't explain why even 1 brass case would get stuck. It's the blowback of powder/carbon that causes it. Simply clean your rifle more often.

Sorry; but the whole "Lacquer melting into your chamber and almost difficult to clean out, is simply some crock that you've been fed. You really need to go over to M4carbine.net and get some information. The folks over there are the hardcore AR/M4 shooters. Many are also gunsmiths, vendors, retailers, and competition shooters. There's a lot of big heads and arrogance over there; but you'll generally find mostly the truth. Most of the newer russian ammo is Polymer; but even some of the older ammo that is still lacquered, is not going to hurt your gun at all.

Now you say you won't shoot it. That's fine. And I'm sure that you really won't do any research. That too is fine. I personally don't care. But to see bad information be fed to others who might be willing to learn the truth, is what I am referencing. The problem is; people think steel case ammo is SUPPOSE to be the same as brass. Therefor, they shoot it the same and they clean their gun the same. If they happen to clean their gun often normally, then they don't have issues shooting steel case ammo. Then again, there will always be those that also think it's harmful to shoot "Corrosive Ammo" in their guns. Forget the fact that almost 2 entire world wars were engaged with shooting a lot of corrosive ammo. Those rifles are still here. You just need to know how to use a little soapy water to clean your rifle after you're done shooting corrosive ammo. Then clean it and lube like normal. But no; there are those that won't listen to that either.

Seriously. Get an empty lacquer coated steel case and try using a torch on it, and see if you can get something to "DRIP" or "Melt" off of it.
 
You can still find some lacquer coated russian steel case ammo, but I believe you are correct that most, if not all wolf is polymer.

But I have some lacquer, and it isn't going to melt. There is still a lot of brown bear that "Claim" to be lacquer. It might be or might not.

http://www.sportsmansguide.com/net/...ington-62-grain-sp-ammo-500-rds.aspx?a=472415

http://www.barnaul.co.nz/index.php?page=5-56-x-45-223-rem
This is what I have a lot of. If you can find this stuff, it is fantastic.

I have about a case, 1000 rounds, of Barnaul that is definitely lacquer. Usually you can tell, because the case instead of a dark grayish color, is more like a greenish. But again; even this lacquer isn't going to melt down onto the chamber of the rifle.

Funny thing is; there are some people that are so ignorant, there are claims that the lacquer actually goes down the barrel, goes back down the gas tube, and can clog the gas port on the AR bolt. I guess the lacquer goes from a melted liquid, to a gas state, then back to a solid once it gets into the gas port. Too funny.
 
Mythbuster... just becouse I dont agree with you is no reason to get personal. Let me be more clear... Whatever a quality handload or quality factory load can do, wolf, tula, and the rest cannot. That was my point. You dont know anything about me so keep your assumptions of my ability or lack of to yourself.
 
For training practice and fun wolf can't be beat. Its not the most accurate, but I wouldn't say it is wildly inaccurate.

I threw a couple 1ish inch groups (less than 2) @ 100 yards in .308.

It was more challenging, but it is doable.

The stuff I used I believe did not have any lacquer which is a reason some people will tell you to stay away from it (dirty up your chamber or something idk).
 
My only experience with Wolf ammo is their .22 long rifle match and target and it's some of the best rimfire ammo I have ever used.

5 shot group @ 50 yards

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No, it will not.

Unless, of course, you are speaking of cherry-picked 3-round groups, which do not provide any indication of the real limitations of a load...
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I shoot way more Russian Steel Case ammo than anything else. I won't use a vise, sled, brace, etc... for the rifle. That's just me. That's not practical shooting. I need to be able to hit the target without using a mechanical apparatus that won't be available when i really need to shoot. Anyway; using iron sights or a 1x red-dot (Basically the same as iron sights), I can lean across a table, or against a tree/post, or similar; and put an entire 30 round magazine into a 4" x 4" square on the target at 100 yards. That's with using Silver bear, wolf, MFS, tula, and Barbaul.

Now; if you don't think that's good enough marksmanship because it's not less than 2.0 MOA (Using a vise, sled, etc...), then you are free to believe that. Me personally, I am quite satisfied with those results. That's good enough for deer, prairie dogs, people, or whatever my target is. If I want to artificially shoot at a target with mechanical devices, then I'm sure there's something available for Playstation 3. But I have no problem using russian steel case ammo.
 
" Get yourself a lacquer coated wolf, Barnaul, or whatever. Pull the bullet and dump the powder. You can pop the primer if you want too. Now hit that empty brass with a butane or propane torch. You're not going to melt off any lacquer"

That is true. I know it is true because I have tried it several times to demonstrate this to non believers.

If a chamber of a rifle is hot enough to melt the lacquer, which can't be melted with a torch, then your chamber is more than hot enough to cook off the round as soon as it goes into the chamber.
 
"Mythbuster... just becouse I dont agree with you is no reason to get personal. Let me be more clear... Whatever a quality handload or quality factory load can do, wolf, tula, and the rest cannot. That was my point. You dont know anything about me so keep your assumptions of my ability or lack of to yourself."

I re-read this whole thread and a few more about Wolf ammo and I have not seen ANYONE claim Wolf was as accurate as any quality hand load or good premium factory round.

My point was it is more accurate than the vast majority of shooters can shoot it without a bench and sandbags.
 
"No, it will not.

Unless, of course, you are speaking of cherry-picked 3-round groups, which do not provide any indication of the real limitations of a load"

So you KNOW no rifle is capable of shooting .223 Wolf two MOA?

I have some bad news for you. I have seen it done more than once and these were more than 3 round groups.

Wolf is not made to be used for precision target work. For what it is designed for it works well.

It is a cheap plinking and practice ammo that has more than enough accuracy potential for it's intended purpose.
 
I have not seen ANYONE claim Wolf was as accurate as any quality hand load or good premium factory round.
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Except for yourself, of course:

Wolf will shoot two inch groups.
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the two MOA Wolf will hit any real world target YOU can.
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2moa is the realm of premium factory rounds, not Wolf. It just isn't up to the task. It's good to see that you have realized your own statements are not supported by reality.
 
"The ten ring of an NRA 100 yard (reduced from 200) is 3.35" wide. If you can shoot two inch groups off hand, You have a good chance at becoming the National Champion (assuming that you can shoot the other positions as well.)"

I have been shooting high power for many years. As of now I am shooting Master Class scores. I know many High Master Class shooters that shoot so well it is nothing short of amazing.

I have never seen any of them shoot an honest two MOA group from standing. Can it be even be done with 20 rounds? If it can you can't prove it by me.

Can even someone like Tubb do it?
 
Mythbuster I dont think you can do it no matter what ammo you were using. Especially nasty azz wolf. Actually I think its funny, some of you people spend over a grand on a rifle becouse you have to have the best. Then you turn around and shoot the worst ammo on the planet through your precious AR. Whatever, just more good ammo for everybody else.
 
"2moa is the realm of premium factory rounds, not Wolf."


I have seen good rifles shoot 5 rounds of Wolf into 2 inches or less at 100 yards several times.

Good rifles especially heavy barrel bolt guns will also shoot the right factory ammo into one inch or less at 100 yards and it don't always have to be premium ammo.

In fact I know a guy who has a heavy barrel DPMS AR that will put 5 Winchester white box .45 grain JHPs into a 3/4 inch group at 100 about anytime you ask him to do it. I saw one 5 shot group he shot with this rifle and ammo you could cover with a dime.

But is is also a sandbagger. Take away his bench and sandbags and he is lucky to hit the berm.
 
"Actually I think its funny, some of you people spend over a grand on a rifle becouse you have to have the best. Then you turn around and shoot the worst ammo on the planet through your precious AR."

What I think is funny is people plinking with dollar a round ammo. What is even more funny is shooters who require a 2,000lb concrete bench and sandbags before then can shoot a rifle and hit anything smaller than a 78 Volvo wagon.
 
I agree that a dollar a round for practice is alot. Since I started reloading the price I pay for quality ammo is probably less than you would pay for a box of wolf or tula. Last time I added it up I could make a round for about .28 cents.Less than 6 dollars per 20. I have been shooting over 30yrs. Some of that in the army. Im pretty sure I know my way around a firearm.
 
I agree that a dollar a round for practice is alot. Since I started reloading the price I pay for quality ammo is probably less than you would pay for a box of wolf or tula. Last time I added it up I could make a round for about .28 cents.Less than 6 dollars per 20. I have been shooting over 30yrs. Some of that in the army. Im pretty sure I know my way around a firearm.
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Depending on sales and shipping, I pay between $180 and $200 for 1000 rounds of Tula, MFS, Bear, and Barnaul. That's between $3.59 and $4.00 per box. Or more accurately, $0.18 and $0.20 per round. The average cost of reloading .223, not counting the brass, is about $0.11 per round. Brass can't be reloaded indefinitely. But it averages about $0.20 per piece of brass. When you average out the first reload, then the next few (Before having to buy more brass), the actual cost of reloading .223 averages out to about $0.15 per round. Or $3.00 a box. (That's 5 reloads in the brass). That's a savings of between $0.50 and $1.00 per box.

Now I am not dogging reloading of .223. It's a hobby. You don't want to know what I spend restoring cars. Or what I spend on home theater, computers, other electronics, etc... And I have spent many years reloading. But at least admit that it's a hobby. That you do it because you like to. That you're doing it to create more accuracy. But don't tell me you're doing it to save money. That is pure B.S. (Or, you don't know what it actually costs to reload .223). When I read some people's "Fairy Tales" about how they save $1,000 - $1,500 per year on .223 by reloading, I know they are FOS. That would mean they are shooting around 20,000 rounds of .223 per year. Which comes out to 83 boxes of .223 per MONTH. Of course, you can say that you're saving that much money compared to the $15-$20 per box brass ammo; but then you are comparing apples to radiators and trying to come up with French Toast. We're talking about Wolf and russian steel case ammo. For many of us; saving $0.50 - $1.00 per box of ammo is not worth the time to reload. Not for punching paper or prairie dogs. Not to say that a person wouldn't want to have real high accuracy shooting as a hobby. Go for it. I'm all for doing whatever you want. Just don't try and rationalize why another person shouldn't necessarily shoot wolf or other russian steel case ammo.

For the average shooter, steel case russian ammo is perfectly fine. NORMAL shooting; which means no artificial contraptions for holding the rifle still; the steel case ammo will do a fine job at hitting your target. I do 4" square with NO MAGNIFICATION sights. That is perfectly fine for me or most people. So don't say it's not accurate. Don't say reloading saves a lot of money. Simply say that you LIKE to reload; you WANT the MOST ACCURATE POSSIBLE; and you don't want to pay $10 a box to do that. That is respectable. That is accurate. That isn't rationalizing. A corvette is definitely better than a ford focus. No one will argue. But if you live in new york city, only drive in new york city, can never go over 35-40mph, then there are no real advantages to the corvette. Not a great analogy; but my point is; if a person is only into shooting for fun, hitting paper or prairie dogs, not into competition shooting, doesn't even care what the initials MOA stand for; then there is absolutely no reason in the world that shooting steel case ammo wouldn't be a feasible option. A few years ago, when ammo was at lower prices, many people shot blazer aluminum ammo because it was half the price. They couldn't reload it, and it wasn't as accurate, but most people didn't care.
 
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