Wolf ammunition, is it really that bad?

Looks like a good sales video. Unfortunately, most myths are started with factual occurrences. I don't care if they fixed their earlier problems or not, having been down the junk road with Wolf and PMC ammo was a one time trip for me. Any of you guys remember when PMC came in plain, brown boxes? That was some real scrap.
 
M17: There's nothing you can do about the "Over-Gas" from the gunsmith's position. It's the size of the gas hole. It's already been drilled, and it's not like you can make it smaller. Remember; back in the day, these rifles shot 5.56 ammo. It is NOT exactly the same as .223. They are a little hotter. Well; being most people shoot .223, and some of that being a little weaker; many AR manufacturers have actually "over-gassed" their rifles on purpose. So it wouldn't short stroke. (short stroke is when there isn't enough pressure in the gas system to have the bolt extract, eject, and chamber the next round accurately). What you want to do is simply shoot some wolf, silver bear, brown bear, MFS, tula, or whatever russian ammo, and try it. Wal-mart is your best bet. It's cheap, and you don't have to buy a case of it. Buy a couple boxes and try it. If your rifle likes it; follow the advice about cleaning your rifle after using it, and enjoy shooting a lot more because it's not expensive. Start there, then ask questions if you think your rifle isn't doing well with the steel case ammo. Don't worry about the over-gas. It's not a big deal, and only would be an issue if you shot 5000 rounds per year of 5.56 ammo. (Sort of like shooting +P ammo in a pistol.

Gunplummer Looks like a good sales video. Unfortunately, most myths are started with factual occurrences. I don't care if they fixed their earlier problems or not, having been down the junk road with Wolf and PMC ammo was a one time trip for me. Any of you guys remember when PMC came in plain, brown boxes? That was some real scrap.
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What factual occurrences? What earlier problems did they fix? What got fixed, is many people stopped being ignorant. They learned the physics of their weapons and of the ammo. But as I said in my previous post, there will be those that do not want to learn. They don't care about the truth. They want everything to be the same. (Conformity). If all people, those who believe in the 2nd amendment and our constitution NORMALLY aren't the type of people who believe in "Conformity". Sorry; but steel case doesn't shoot the same as brass. Boxer non-corrosive doesn't shoot the same as corrosive. Carburetor cars don't operate the same as fuel injection. MAC doesn't operate the same as Windows. Once you "Learn" that there's a difference in how it operates, and you use it properly, there's no problems. You say you've been down the junk road with wolf. While it is possible that your rifle simply didn't like the ammo. (Bushmaster seems to have many issues). I've also seem quality weapons have issues with quality ammo. E.g. My Walther will not under any circumstance shoot Corbon Ammo. Neither walther or corbon is bad. My particular gun just doesn't like it. Normally however; when people have issues with steel case ammo, it's because they don't know how to shoot it; and more important, how to clean their gun after shooting it.

But I'd really like to know what "earlier problems" were they fixing? Must be that imaginary melting lacquer off the shell we've all heard about. And those stuck cases.
 
Instead of getting up on your soap box, maybe you should read what I said. Perhaps you are the one too ignorant to read. I never bought U.S. ammo or quality European ammo that had the powder missing. How about the person that had the ammo with no primer holes in the case? Anybody that had a close call like I did and still buys that junk would have to be really ignorant. I never used surplus 8x57 because most of it was loaded by slave labor that was somewhat disgruntled. I strongly suspect that a lot of that Russian stuff was manufactured with very little quality control and less than ethical people on the lines. If you want to shoot it, have at it.
 
Well; considering that 95+% of any russian ammo you are buying, is BRAND NEW PRODUCTION ammo; especially in the .223 caliber; I really don't know where you're getting some of your information from. This is a forum. Which means that 95% of all information can only be substantiated based on our OWN personal experiences. And even then, we can't PASS IT ON to other readers, because we can't substantiate it to them. Very, very, few posters on a forum have any true respect in what they say. Usually, they are individuals who have posted for a long time, and most everything they post, others have been able to verify personally in their own experiences; and no one has ever been able to call B.S. on them.

When a single individual, or even two, say that they had a particular issue, but hundreds or more haven't had similar issues; I either don't buy it, or I consider it an isolated happening. You are totally free to buy and use whatever ammo you want to. No one is stopping you. But I don't claim Corbon ammo to be CRAP, just because my Walther won't feed it. I also don't claim Walther pistols suck, because they won't eat corbon ammo.

See, you're the one calling it "Junk". Also, you're comparing "Military Surplus" with steel case russian ammo. They aren't necessarily the same thing. You make it sound like all steel case ammo is "Military Surplus". It is quite possible to have some 7.62x54 and 7.62x39 ammo as military surplus. I use to buy a LOT of surplus ammo. I bought cases of steel core 7.62x39 chinese ammo back in the early 90's. (Before all the AWB crap). But the 95%+ of the steel case ammo bought today from wolf, bear, barbauk, mfs, tula, etc... is NEW production; it's not military surplus; it isn't communist ammo built by christian slaves, or any other stereotype.

If your comment was: "I've heard some people do real well with Wolf ammo, but I wasn't as fortunate"..... I could respect that. But you specifically called it junk. And it's junk, ONLY because you say you had a problem with it. Therefor, it MUST be junk. You must be one of those people that write ammo reviews on cabelas, cheaperthandirt, sportsmansguide, etc... You start off with comments like: "Don't touch this"; "Run away from this"; "Worst stuff available". These aren't opinions. These are comments that are totally unhelpful to anyone. They aren't junk because you say so. Just state your experience and leave it at that. At least we know your "Experience" is 15 years ago. I don't need a soap box. I deal in facts. I don't deal on one individual experience and then try to cast a wide paint brush stroke on everything. I have expressed the pros and the cons of russian steel case ammo. No one is forcing you to use it. But I'm not the one using a broad brush. You say it's junk based on your experience, and I say that there's a lot more positive experiences with it that negative. But I also admit that maybe a particular weapon won't like it.
 
It would take a good size truck to haul all the Wolf ammo I have fired over the years.

I have never had any problems except I can expect one or two rounds in a 1,000 round case may missfire in older 7.62-39 ammo.

In their .223 loading I can't remember having any problem. I had one AR that refused to function with Wolf. I no longer own that rifle.

The Bushmaster 20 inch and the Olympic 16 inch I shoot now runs 100% with it. So does the DCM Bushmaster upper I use in highpower.
 
Wolf ammo is foul clean your chamber regularly. My extractor was literally filed off, before I thought it was because of the ammo but I think it was a combo of me not properly cleaning the chamber and the steel cased ammo getting stuck in the chamber.
It is inaccurate and very dirty clean the chamber well or you might end up ruining your extractor. At a 100 yards most ammo will beat its accuracy in my experience. Other then that it seems to be OKAY. btw I have a Yugo SKS and have shoot at least 2,000+ rounds of wolf in it. I had to eventually buy a new extractor and polish my chamber with light sand paper, but again this was probably due to user error and the ammo.
 
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Anaconda; I'm not going to dispute your claims. They in fact may be accurate. But they definitely are NOT the NORM. I've had one of my new AR-15's (M&P15-OR) for only 3 MONTHS, and I've put more than 1500 rounds of steel case ammo through it; including wolf. More than you've done in 5-6 years. And I haven't had any problems. This is also the response of most individuals who shoot steel case ammo.

Next; if you're extractor got "Filed Down" because of wolf steel case ammo, then the extractor in your SKS was pure junk. It wasn't the ammo. The steel used in steel case ammo is SO MUCH SOFTER than the steel that your gun parts are made of. If there was an issue, it was with your gun. As for ammo cases getting stuck in the chamber, that is what happens when you don't clean your rifle regularly. And it happens more with steel case ammo than brass, because steel case ammo doesn't expand as well as brass. Therefor the chamber isn't sealed as well. This allows blow-back of powder residue, carbon, dirt, etc... to get into the chamber. Clean the rifle more often, and it won't happen. FYI: My M&P15, which has MUCH HIGHER tolerances than an SKS, shot 500+ rounds in one afternoon, with cleaning and without one stuck case.

Again; not saying that these things didn't happen to you. Just that you are part of a very small minority. I have AK's, SKS, AR's, Nagents, etc... I've shot steel and brass; corrosive and non-corrosive; boxer and berdan; in every combination that a rifle can handle. The majority of issues people run into are "operator error". Many times, it's simply that one particular firearm, and a particular brand/make of ammo isn't compatible. But if it was the ammo, then the majority of those who shoot it would have problems. And they simply aren't.
 
You are partly correct I edited my post and it is basically a response to what you said. Look above however, Yugo surplus and American made ammo are at least in my gun A LOT more accurate then Wolf which literally looks like buck shot spray at 100 yards. But I can get 3-5 inch groups at a 100+ yards with other ammo. I cleaned my rifles I just used bore snakes mostly and it eventually caught up with me.
 
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Worn down extractor. IE extractor after wolf getting stuck in chamber etc.

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New extractor.
 
I actually been getting better groups with my AR from 62gr Wolf .223 than I have with Privi M193, M855, or Remington UMC. Go figure.




FWIW, Privi 69gr Match is giving really nice groups without being too hard on the wallet.
 
I have never had any problems with any steel cased ammo.
I have shot diffrent brands too. Wolf , Bear, Herters, Monarch... All of it feed, fired, and ejected without issue. So maybe I got lucky? But, I would imagine that I would have had problems somewhere along the way if it was truly "junk".
No it isn't as accurate as most of the brass cased ammo but for training and plinking it is perfectly good ammo.

Calibers I have shot with steel cased ammo:
9x19 , 9x18 Makarov, .380 acp, .40, .45,
.223, 5.45x39, 7.62x39, 7.62x54r, .308

The only time I ever had any problem while shooting steel case was when a POS tapco ak mag had a bad follower.

Lets not forget the wolf "gold" line. The "gold" line is made by Prvi Partizan and is great ammo. This is a case where wolf just repackages the ammo and sells it in thier own box. It is accurate and brass cased.
 
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http://thefiringline.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=69383&d=1302993088


I wonder if anyone been getting good groups with Wolf out of an SKS or AK?
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I shot the above group using wolf "black box" ammo at 50 yards. The rifle was a Century arms M70B1 Yugoslavian AK47.
The target on the left is two 3 shot groups and the one on the right is a single 3 shot group. (not that you couldn't figure that out on your own)

I cut these groups off the paper target to save space. Old targets tend to pile up and waste a lot of space in my experiance;)

Also you can also see from the photo, my shooting is much better than my handwriting:o
 
Those are decent groups the "two 3 shoot groups" may have more validity. I know I get the occasional 3 shots right next to each other or two bullet holes touching but then the rest looks like crap ordeal. Try it at 100-120 yards with wolf ammo and come back. :rolleyes: perhaps my Yugo just does not like wolf ammo other then just spitting it out which it has been doing for a while now even with a extremely worn down extractor lol. With a few occasional jams here and there of course now jams are unheard off.
 
I know the 50 yards isn't ideal for testing the accuracy of the ammo. But bear in mind a few things. the largest group in the photo is about 1.25 inches at 50 yards. So that would make a 2.5 inch group at 100 as long a I don't blow the shot.

At that range and with that gun I can shoot like that all day. I will freely admit that at 100 yards and beyond the ak iron sights make it difficult to shoot.


I was just trying to show that the "junk" century ak and "junk" ammo are perfectly good for their intended use. Practice/Plinking.

Now if your AK dosen't like the Wolf then maybe its just the rifle. Century isn't known for haveing the best quality control in the world.
 
I have seen Winchester ammo with bullets seated upside-down, and with primers in backwards. I've been present when two handguns blew apart on factory US made ammo. Does that make the US ammo crap ammo?

No.

Ammo is mass produced. There are some great QC in place, especially here in the States, however the occasional mishap occurs. It's going to when you produce millions of rounds every year. If you shoot enough of any one brand, over time you'll find a screwed up round or two. If you don't, you're not shooting enough.

Wolf probably has a lower quality standard than most US produced ammo. But I fire more Wolf ammo a year than most people here and I can count on my right hand the number of bad Wolf rounds (center fire) I've stumbled across in my 20+ years of shooting. I also use a LOT of Wolf primers in my handgun reloads and I've found their primers to actually be pretty darn good.
 
never any problems with it. Its not particularly accurate (or inaccurate for that matter). Only prejudice I've ever heard about it is theres an indoor range that wont allow you to shoot it. I think they say its for ventilation reasons, I don't know if its really that much dirtier or not.
 
Most ranges won't let you shoot it indoors because Wolf uses a bi-metal bullet. It has copper, steel and lead in the bullet. They're concerned the steel with damage the traps or that it will cause a spark which could ignite unburnt powder in the range.
 
" the largest group in the photo is about 1.25 inches at 50 yards. So that would make a 2.5 inch group at 100 as long a I don't blow the shot." Perhaps. But,Then we would never have to test a weapon out past 50 yards or 25 yards for that matter now would we.
Based on.
"I know the 50 yards isn't ideal for testing the accuracy of the ammo."
 
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If your shooting all over the place at 100 yards then maybe its the rifle not the ammo. My rifle feeds wolf like a champ and lets face it, ak's and 7.62x39 isn't know for accuracy anyway.
If your looking for something better than a 3-4 inch group at 100 yards then you need to do better than a AK/SKS rifle.

So to restate my point: In my experiance when used for practice and plinking wolf ammo works just fine.

But if your rifle dosen't like Wolf then what does it like? Have you noticed a difference with other brands? Any reccomendations for another inexpensive ammo?
 
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