TSA: "You have your law, I have mine."

I don't have a problem with the walk-thru metal detectors, the metal detecting wands, or the x-ray machines for carry-ons; the "take off your shoes" business is just asinine.

The pat-downs don't really bother me as long as they keep their hands off my crotch - which renders the pat-down ineffective. Some people may object to pat-downs though, which is their right. If pat-downs are going to be performed, women passengers should be checked by women checkers ONLY.

A strip search should NEVER be an option for the TSA, period!!! If they have no probable cause to arrest a passenger, they DO NOT have probable cause to strip search. Strip searches based on "just because we can" are police state tactics.

The last time I flew, I refused to be separated from my wristwatch. It did not become a problem, but I suppose it could have. I am fortunate enough to be the owner of a Rolex Submariner, which I cannot afford to replace, and the TSA will not be held responsible for items "lost" at security checkpoints.

I recently read a story of a woman who put her passport in a plastic tub to go thru the x-ray machine. The tub came out the other end, minus the passport, which was never seen again. The victim suspected a foreign national in line behind her, who vanished quickly.

At present, American citizens have no rights when under the dominion of the TSA. We are still human beings and American citizens, EVEN WHEN WE STEP FOOT INTO AN AIRPORT.

It is high time for the governmnent and the TSA to treat us as such.
 
What do you all think would be an acceptable airport search policy? Is there a search policy that would provide an acceptable level of safety without random searches?
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I'm afraid we're stuck with random searches as the only vioable option. As a guy who flies all the time ... I'm more than happy to go through an occasional random search to reduce the risk of climbing into a sealed, pressured tube at 25,000 feet with a terrorist carrying a bomb/gun.

Course ... I don't understand the continued problem with small knives. Believe me, NO ONE is ever hijacking a plane with a boxcutter again. Not unless they can successfully kill every able bodied male on the pland and/or the armed pilot (if that ever happens).

The only thing I would like to see? A program where proven frequent fliers (every airline has a list) can be identified, trained and deputized as volunteer air marshals. There are a lot of people who fly every week (sometimes I am one of them) and how much cheaper that would be than having a paid air marshal in the aircraft. Perhaps the civilians could take the same week long course as the pilots.
 
the TSA will not be held responsible for items "lost" at security checkpoints.
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That's what they want us to think. Some of the cases of this happenning are in court and waiting for decisions. If the statement is found to be true then they should still be held responsible for certain actions they do.

There are a few stories of my brother's friends that were almost the same. The TSA agent told them to step aside for a further search after they had already put their purses on the conveyor for the x-ray. When they had asked to not be made to leave their purses on the end of the conveyor they were intimidated to do what they were told and to "step over here". They had even asked if they would assure the purses would be protected if they couldn't stay close to the bags. Of course the purses were stolen while they were being searched with their shoes off. In those situations they (TSA) are negligent and liable in my opinion. If they have all this secrurity then why aren't they catching thieves as well? There has to be a much better and more efficient way to protect us all without the problems mentioned so far in this thread. The problems should have been adressed years ago and not years from now.
 
On the contrary, I love showing my badge and filling out the right paperwork to fly with my pistol... no searches, pat downs, family harassment... nada.

I wish the NRA would start petitioning to allow CCW carry on an airplane, as long as you have a valid CCW from where you are departing (assuming round trip), and the state you are arriving to has reciprocity... I think it would be a safe idea... I don't think I've ever read, seen or heard of a CCW holder going on a rampage or violating gun laws...

Habeeb would be hard pressed to jack a plane loaded with Black Talons.
 
A "liitle" abridgement of Bill of Rights Guarantees is exactly what the Patriot Act is all about. Anyone who believes this camel's nose under the tent doesn't portend a future of sleeping at the camel's discretion is mistaken.

These exact techniques can and WILL be applied to other activities in life. When so many, whom I respect for their enormous love of freedom, accept these measures as "necessity", I fear all is pretty much lost. When we draw our Line in the Sand on the Second Amendment only, we've already lost the Bill of Rights.

Other than the Shoe Bomber (foiled by Passengers), when was the last time we foiled a terrorist plot against a US Airliner? And PULEASE don't say it's because they're afraid of getting caught by the TSA.

Since when is ‘public safety’ the root password to the Constitution?
C. D. Tavares
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Rich
 
These exact techniques can and WILL be applied to other activities in life. When so many, whom I respect for their enormous love of freedom, accept these measures as "necessity", I fear all is pretty much lost. When we draw our Line in the Sand on the Second Amendment only, we've already lost the Bill of Rights.
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I agree.

But I think the ONLY time we should beleive it is a neccessity is when we are at a war that threatens our very existence as a people or a country. And I'm not talking bout the war on drugs, immoral acts or terrorism, the Iraqi police action, Vietnam police action, Korean police action, Grenada, cold war........etc. I mean wars congress declares AND that threaten our existence (ex. WWII). Anything short, should not justify abridging our rights, even temporarily.
 
The good professor acts as a fool. Right, call security people (or the cops for that matter) Nazis and see how far that gets you. He reads the riot act to people who are not responsible for the policies, just responsible for carrying them out. His stand is not as principled as he dresses it up to be what with his, "people like us" comment. How would the security people at the airport know this?
His solution: Go inflict the inspection on SOMEBODY ELSE. How principled...not!!! This sounds like the bleatings of a very self-centered person.
I think we have gone overboard on security, too. I just wouldn't hitch my cart to this professor's childish rantings. People talk a lot about the price of freedom...until the bill comes due.
I'll say this, if the price for no intrusive searches and erosion of people's rights is a downed airplane with a couple of hundred dead each and every year by terrorists, it would be worth the risk.
 
Don't believe every crazy suggestion from ever crazy legislator you hear. Closing down a majority of city, county, feeder and private airports would send the economy reeling.
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Whatever gave you the idea that that makes any difference to our legislators and elected rulers?

Mayor Daly destroyed the runways at Meigs Field in the dead of night - there's no GA airport that's safe.
 
Unique 5.7,
But where will it stop? A search of passengers today, tomorrow they will say a terrorist can steal your gun and no more guns allowed in the whole country. Sure we need security but will you give up all your rights in exchange for complete around the clock safety. Someone has to draw the line and I think they drew the line 213 years ago (or so) when they did the bill of rights. Even if you dissagree with this statement you have to agree that TSA has to treat us like citizens and not like criminals. They can protect us without making us feel as if we are prisoners and hopefully without violating our privacy.
 
It appears Mr. Otteson suggests profiling should save him, a native born American, the imposition of a random search.

But wasn’t that tragedy, like most terrorist activities against America, perpetrated by people who were not native-born American citizens, and who were not traveling with their wives and small children?
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As has already been mentioned above and should be obvious to this a$$clown, if we only search brunettes and redheads, the terrorists will use blondes. Random searches are more effective and a greater deterrent.

All this pissing for a 20-minute search?? And it sounds like half of that was self-inflicted. Next time you get pulled over, give the LEO a face full of cr@p and see if he doesn’t triple your fun.

Searching my children, my wife, and me does not increase security one iota: as anyone with any common sense could see, we are obviously not a threat. Indeed, wasting time searching people like us squanders the opportunity to check people who actually are likely suspects.
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This comment from a University Professor … apparently common sense is not a requirement for tenure at the University of Alabama.

We should not let our political sensibilities trump our good sense when actual lives are at stake. And we should not let our precious liberties—the very liberties that make this country worth dying for—be usurped by petty tyrants who are “just following orders.”
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No Sir, what we “should not do” is let Airport Security or a National Guardsmen decide who is a likely terrorist and who is not. Security in our airports is an enormous issue that will take years and billions to address. I have absolutely no respect for any rube such as Mr. Otteson that squawks like a b!tch every time his professorial robes are ruffled then neglects to offer a solution to the problem.

To those that feel the government is encroaching on their precious civil liberties … you are correct. They are, always have been and always will. You’re not, nor have you ever been, free to do whatever you want when it affects the lives and/or safety of others. This line between liberty and safety took a recent jump toward safety and we should watch for, and never tolerate, abuse of the laws but there was a very good reason we bumped that line.

That said: If his search went down as described, and I suspect he was liberal in his use of literary license and drama to make his point, the “Greyhound for life” comments were over the top. The philosopher should be requesting an apology, not a change in policy.

Rich, your Father’s ordeal was extremely unfortunate and it sounds like the female moron-in-uniform was a complete a-hole. A “non-sterile” dressing/sitting area certainly should be provided. That was ridiculous.

Any time I fly, I will arrive early and allow airport security do it's thing. I'll keep my pie-hole shut and allow them to do their job. And if a time comes when I don't want to tolerate the "imposition" of a search or delay, I WILL go Greyhound .. and so should the yappy professor. :D
 
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That said: If his search went down as described, and I suspect he was liberal in his use of literary license and drama to make his point, the “Greyhound for life” comments were over the top. The philosopher should be requesting an apology, not a change in policy.
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Not only has "Greyhound for life" threat been said before it has been carried out. Not sure how they carry it out internally (maybe simply filling out a form?) but they can get you on the do not fly list or consider you a person of interest. There has reportedly been cases (I cannot currently cite one though) of people that are not terrorists and have mysteriously found their names on that list after a confontation with TSA security.

I have the same feeling you have about the personality of the proffesor (don't like the liberal cracks though). But I know if he really is exagerating that there are way too many cases out there where it really has happened.
TSA is out of control and it is a poor attitude to have to say that it will take years to fix itself (if that's what you meant). WE should get it fixed by speaking out.
As far as offering a solution you may be right but it is a good idea to know what the situation is by talking about it first so that a solution can be found.
 
Novus Collectus - Er, I think we are agreement on this, the airport security has gone too far.
My point was that this was a childish self-serving rant by the professor posing as a principled objection. He deserves the comments he got after comparing the people to Nazis, imo. Just because somebody is doing government or public service work, doesn't mean they have to sign on to be an emotional pin cushion and endure provocative comments.
His objection wasn't really that it happened to people, he offered up others to endure the inspection. His objection is that the inspection happened TO HIM.
 
TSA should be considerate and couteous unless the situation calls for them to be otherwise, same as LEO's on the street.

This clown suggests he shouldn't have been randomly searched because he doesn't pose a threat. That's ludicrous and he is, imho, a moron. :rolleyes:

That's 20 minutes of his life he'll never get back ... the audacity! :barf:
 
Personally, I just accept it as post 9-11 lifestyle. This is the world in which we live. I just grin and bear it. It is an inconvenience, but I'm courteous and polite to them just to speed it up. Most times they're courteous and polite in return. They probably get searched too when they travel, right?
 
Novus Collectus - Er, I think we are agreement on this, the airport security has gone too far.
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I couldn't get your whole quote above, but yes you are right we are in agreement and also the Nazi comment was over the line and unescessary. Sorry for misunderstanding. :o
 
I had no problem at all with the TSA's the last time I flew......They were very nice...although they DID miss my gun in my suitcase.....I checked it at the counter, they tagged my bag and put the little tag on my gun case inside the suitcase and sent me and the bag down the counter to the TSA....The TSA opened my bag, pulled out my metal Streamlight and swabbed it with something.....then started to close my suitcase.....I said "Aren't you gonna check my gun?" And she said "OH!! I didn't even see it in there!!" Which I thought was funny since they sent it to her to specifically check the gun!!
 
you know, it'd be kinda tough for the TSA to treat every passenger like criminals if there were no TSA employees. or at least, less of them.

if only there were some way to, i dunno, convince them to go on strike or something.
 
The TSA is out of control.

I do agree that we need strong security at airports and that most of the time things go smoothly. I have been pulled aside for the additional sweep with the handheld detector. I cooperated with a smile on my face just to deal with it and be away from them. Luckily I have not had anything stolen from me in the process.

http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/03/28/1344214

That is another forum I read often. (I am a geek, I admit it....) In that forum the first post points to a document by the Department of Homeland Security that may be of interest to some of you.
 
Society recognizes as reasonable the right of an airline to refuse service to someone who won't let the government agents search his carry-on luggage.
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Airlines have rights?
 
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