Thousands Rally for Immigrants Across U.S.

But spelling wasn't an important issue.

mthalo, one thing I forgot to say. Immigration is not cut off or restricted with any of the proposed bills I have read. People are not being denied legal entry into this country, nor are greater criteria for political asylum being proposed. As far as I know the quotas for each country for number of immigrants is not being lowered.

I saw a short interview with a buisness owner who said she could not fulfill her state contract (road construction) if she didn't have illegal labor. So she admits to knowingly breaking the law and therefore possibly getting an unfair competitive advantage over her rivals. They cannot put together a bid as low as hers because their labor costs are higher.
This sort of thing needs to be made illegal. It is illegal to aid and further other crimes. She should face forfeiture of assets.
 
mthalo said:
Frankly, I'm disgusted at the blatent racism here.
To those who suggest stocking up on more ammo: what do you want to do, round up anyone who's Hispanic (or looks that way), and escort them to the border at gunpoint? Do you feel that threatened? Maybe we should set up some concentration camps to hold them until we can toss them back over the border.
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You are taking what would otherwise be a rational discussion and hyperbolizing until it reaches a point of being ridiculous. Why set up strawmen like "concentration camps," etc.?

It's not "racism." It's a feeling that there are people who became criminals through their very act of getting here, who are now trying to BULLY ACTUAL AMERICAN CITIZENS and our government into giving them what they demand even though they should not even be here!

Legal immigrants are already guaranteed every right that any other American citizen enjoys. There is no reason why ILLEGAL ALIENS should have any say in how this country is run! PERIOD!


I don't support letting every illegal immigrant stay in the country illegally, and think everyone immigrating to this country should learn English (which most do). But fact is, most simply want a better life for themselves and their families, and act accordingly.
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You mean, the way most criminals who steal other people's money and jewelry "simply want more money and nicer jewelry"?

I mean, a criminal act is a criminal act. Committing a criminal act just because you sense that by doing so, you will have a better life, is not excusable. Why does anyone do something they're not legally allowed to do? Usually, it's because they feel it will entitle them to more enjoyment of life, via material gain.


In my experience, there are a lot of jobs in this country that Americans are not willing to do. You may find plenty that will take the job, they just don't feel that that they should have to give anything in return for their paycheck.
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Huh?

When I lived on Long Island, white Americans were our lawn maintenance guys. Not Mexicans. They were entrepreneurs.

If people from third-world countries were not here to do jobs for substandard wages, the wages would have to be competitive for the jobs to get done -- and they would. Everyone pretends that we'd have a whole load of undone jobs that no one would be willing to do. That's not true. Americans are just not willing to do them for what illegals currently are paid to do them -- and the only reason the pay is what it is, is because illegals are willing to take their low-pay lumps because they know they shouldn't even be here. Can't make a high-profile case for high pay when you could (should) be deported when the authorities discover your presence.

So should we not give those that are here that opportunity? Have these people proven that they are capable of making a positive contribution to our society?
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Their first "contribution" is to enter the country illegally, often with fraudulent documents. Why would you reward such people with a grant of legitimacy that they don't deserve? They broke our laws to come here, and you think we should just be nice guys and throw more their way?? [shocked]

-azurefly
 
Tom2, you make a good point, about the ability to screen immigrants for criminals.

Who has not heard of the rising presence of latin gangs like MS13, Latin Kings, etc.? When 11,000,000 ILLEGAL latinos are in the U.S. if even .1% were gang members (violent criminals), that would be 11,000 violent criminals that our government doesn't even know are here.

And you'll be paying for their gunshot wounds when they show up at the emergency room with no insurance.

-azurefly
 
The number one way to stop ALOT of this crap is to make it a federal crime, with MANDATORY PRISON TIME, and seizure of all assets, to ANYONE who knowingly employs illegal workers. Period. You hire them, you get charged a felony, lose your business and go to jail. NO EXCEPTIONS.

Second, strengthen border security, and start forceful deportation. They get caught again, its mandatory prison time. And implement a national reward program to anyone who alerts officials of the location of illegals, or of a business that hires illegals.

Make it painful where it hurts.....in the pockets to hire illegals, and make it painful to the illegals that spit on our laws. Let them live the american dream the hard way, from behind bars....
 
I have a few solutions. Put out a nation-wide bounty on illegal immigrants. X-number of dollars reward to any legal US resident who captures and turns in a confirmed illegal. Then ship them to the border to a work camp where they each spend minimum 1-month constructing the US version of the Berlin Wall that stretches the entire length of the border. They will NOT be paid, as this is no different than community service and restitution like any other non-violent criminal would be charged and sentenced to. The violent illegals will be handled differently. I'd have to say the only punishment effective enough to make them understand we aren't playing anymore is execution. They want to bring their gang up here to rob, rape, and kill? Central American Cartels are doing just that. It's time our laws protected the innocent rather than the guilty. A bit extreme, perhaps. However, our prisons are already at nearly 250% capacity of what they were 15 years ago. And the quality of prison life is much too high for those individuals--it should be a punishment, not a reward. The cost of supporting prison inmates in any state or federal facility is between $30K and $50K per year PER INMATE, and we--the tax-payers, foot the bill. That amount of money could be used is SO MANY better ways to improve the quality of our own society. Anyway, once the wall is finished, declare a 1/2 mile wide strip inside the wall as a US Military facility the full length of the border. With recorded events of drug-runners getting Mexican military escort across our border, it really is frightening and really makes me wonder why we're even talking about it. What's worse is if you don't know where to look, you never even know it's happening. If it were a Russian lifeboat washing up on the beach 20 years ago it would have made the headlines of every paper in the nation--AND warrented severe political inquiry. NOW? Half our politicians have sold us out. There are also increasing recorded events of said Mexican military firing on both our citizens and Border Patrol to help their drug runners penetrate the border and get away. It falls under invasion catagory and really shouldn't be ignored. I'd say we need to make a bold statement to the Mexican government that if they persist (or cannot control their forces, as I'm sure the claim will be made), we will--and respond as a governmental declaration of war on the United States. This would be much easier to support if the border was declaired a Military facility, since trespassing and firing on us would then fall under attack of a government/military facility, and thus give the border units full authority to light up whomever is threatening to sneak or force their way in with lethal response. That would also keep the reporters/ACLU out, since the border would become restricted in the same manner as any other military base. No more whinning liberal, self-declared humanitarians supporting and helping the illegal invasion. They get away with it now--but let them cry for their rights when they're caught trespassing on a military installation--they have none.
There is a solution... A bit radical? Maybe--but the idea of our entire nation standing by idle and ignoring a most serious threat to our society, security, and way of life---THAT is a much more radical and self-destructive idea.
 
The number one way to stop ALOT of this crap is to make it a federal crime, with MANDATORY PRISON TIME, and seizure of all assets, to ANYONE who knowingly employs illegal workers. Period. You hire them, you get charged a felony, lose your business and go to jail. NO EXCEPTIONS.

Second, strengthen border security, and start forceful deportation. They get caught again, its mandatory prison time. And implement a national reward program to anyone who alerts officials of the location of illegals, or of a business that hires illegals.

Make it painful where it hurts.....in the pockets to hire illegals, and make it painful to the illegals that spit on our laws. Let them live the american dream the hard way, from behind bars....
__________________
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The above quote is the answer, will it be done, no, the business community
is addicted to cheap labor, most would sell their country to the devil for
a few extra bucks, profit, bottom line, stock market, simply greed.
 
Rangefinder - That appears to be one way to try to resove the issue and it would take a lot of time and money to implement. The government/politicians/people of the US have let it go so far that any drastic action will likely result in violence, at least in the way of removing all current illegal aliens. Once a felony rap is threatened, the stakes are higher and the IA's as well as the ones that hire them are more likely to use extreme force to protect themselves from prosecution. Bloodshed would ensue. One of the ways to avoid this is with diplomacy, which doesn't seem to work in cases like this. So that is why I am preparing to by additional ammo to protect myself and family.

That is why the decision what to do is so difficult, do we want to try a slow ineffective process and hope things work out in the long run or do we want to put American citizens in harm's way by using a show of force on American soil?

I'm not trying to be sarcastic, but in my mind this is a possibility.
 
06nop

I agree whole-heartedly--It certainly IS a possibility that any real action to curb illegal immigration and handle the current population in any way that doesn't reward them for their illegal status will undoubtedly lead to violence somewhere if not all over the country. But realistically, it wouldn't be the first time, nor will it be the last I'm sure.

A bit off the wall, maybe, but here's another thought that popped into my head last night. Currently we have about 11 million illegal immigrants on US soil that are spread out so well that they are in every major city, and have managed to gain a substantial political support within parts of our own government. So let's just tip off the edge a little farther into "conspiracy theory" for a second. Pretend 1 out of every 1000 were actually part of a pre-planned long-term invasion. They don't need to come in force, with weapons or equipment, it's all here for them to pick and choose--ideal OSP. Hypothetically, that would place a force of 11000 within our border with everything they need to begin an organized advance on any major city they want to take first. Would they succeed? Not a chance. But who's caught in the middle, and what kind of situation would result? An uprising among other illegals following suit? War fought on our own soil again? How many civilian casualties?

It's just a far-out little idea that ran through my head--not that I have much belief in it---But realistically, it IS entirely possible. I laughed at the idea at first, but it makes one wonder a little.
 
I nned to admit I'm wrong.

Having read everyone's rebuttal to my post, and taken a more careful look at the whole issue over the past two days (i.e reading news articles, editorials and such), and have to say that I was wrong on this issue.

Why do I think that now? Before, I failed to look at one very important fact, that we're talking about illegal immigration. (I think I fell asleep the night before with the radio tuned to NPR :o ).

Jimpeel and Croyance, one of the reasons I made the 1939 Jewish comparison is not because I think the circumstances are the same, but the potential for something like that occuring is there. Maybe that's too much of a stretch, but the potential for some charismatic leader spewing hatred towards all Hispanics is a definite possibility here, especially in the age where the 10 second sound bite is what so many people seem to base there entire belief system on.

I also was living in NYC during 9/11, and witnessed a lot of innocent people suffer when the call for justice was made (i.e people being attacked for being perceived as Muslims). I also see a lot of potential for something like that occuring in this situation.

Azurefly, I grew up in Westchester, and the only American citizens I ever saw mowing a lawn were my brother and I. I used to say that the only reason my father had children was so he didn't have to cut the grass.
 
Rangefinder

Pretend 1 out of every 1000 were actually part of a pre-planned long-term invasion. They don't need to come in force, with weapons or equipment, it's all here for them to pick and choose--ideal OSP. Hypothetically, that would place a force of 11000 within our border with everything they need to begin an organized advance on any major city they want to take first.
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Isn't that along the lines of what Al Qaeda has done, also with there "cell network" ? Do we need another government doing this?
It does seem far-fetched when you first consider it, but it's something to be wary of.
 
I see Hillary, Kennedy, Shummer, Kerry and the liberals were out in force selling out to the illegals, firing up the protesters. The liberal media was right behind like dirty thugs. Hillary sure did a 180, 6 months ago she blasted Bush for illegals and now she's out pandering and pan handling on her knee's to illegals. The dem/liberals care nothing about America and will drop to their sorry knee's for any vote they get. I would expect no less from femmi-men like John Kerry and other demasculated males in the liberal party.
 
sure, hitlery and pals are in the same boat,selling the same goods..shes about as 2 faced as they get.theyre trying to get just enough extra votes to secure it and are using them all.cash is king.

yes..please do look at al queda,they followed the same networks of employers that hire illegals,they knew where to get fraudulant documents and knew how to play us here.we should close the border to everyone but those that are documented or seeking citizenship until we figure out exactly how many and exactly who we are dealing with...and where they originated from.

my thoughts are with the other replies..if they arent here legally, they should not be allowed to demonstrate,vote or anything else just as an american wouldnt dream of going to say..another country and making demands?
 
mthalo-

I hope you've also reconsidered your perception of racism.

What follows is my opinion, based on 30 years of living in a community full of illegal immigrants and 15 years of working in several industries that exploit them.

I live in a largely agricultural area, where illegal aliens are used for a cheap labor force and have been for years. The cliche that flies around is that they do the jobs that Americans don't want to do. Why is this?

The industries that encourage and perpetuate illegal immigration know that through a language barrier and sub-citizen status, they can exploit these immigrants with low pay and unsafe conditions, which ultimately increases the profit margin. It's not just agriculture. It is also construction, service industries, and odd-jobbery(I just made that up).

So after a good round of exploitation by the "right-wing" big businesses, what's next for our illegal workhorses? How about a healthy portion of manipulation from the "left-wing" politicos. The politicians in this tragic State use a huge network of Spanish radio and television channels to urge the aliens to participate illegally in elections. This may sound like an untruth, but I have worked with illegals who were voting in state elections and they have assured me that this is common (Being a spanish-speaker with Mexican family, I have always been kind of an insider with illegals that I work with). Even if they were legally allowed to vote, how can a group who doesn't speak the language of a country be presented with the balanced facts to vote knowledgeably?

So hopefully next time you think it is racist to wish to enforce the law against illegal aliens, you will think again. It is the exact opposite. This is what the pro-illegal people say to me:

"We need these Mexicans to do all this crappy work for cheap, because us Americans are far above it."

That is not an actual quote, it is just my blunt translation of the pro argument. We are being deceived!
 
A lot of political leaders have specifically been avoiding anti-hispanic rhetoric, though you can see that doesn't include all Americans. I don't believe that borders should be open just because of the possiblility of anti-hispanic rhetoric.
If and when that happens, I will certainly be on the side of Hispanic citizens.
A percentage of any population will hold unreasonable hatreds. All we can do is minimize that. But such people cannot be allowed to paralyze the decision making process. Remember, part of the anti-gun arguement is that some people are unreasonable (criminal) and use their guns in such a way.

I will admit that being on this side of this issue has put me on the same side as a lot of people I dislike to various degrees.
 
And the criminal alien invasion continues.
The solution is. of course, to make felons of all who hire them, including the top person in the company.
All else will fail.:mad:
 
Make them prove their citizenship via birth certificates and such. Go door ro door. Revoke laws saying they can automatically become citizens because their children are born on our soil. In the future when they illegally come here, don't just deport them, sentence them to a couple of years in jail at hard labor, that will give them a reason to NOT try to just turn around and come back.
 
That's fine, do it for everybody on the street. There are European illegals too.
By 'them' I assume you mean everybody who isn't white. Nope, have your secret police do it for everybody.
 
Do it for everybody, okay. Only problem with that is it spreads manpower too thin. I prefer the state or federal officials to just go into Mexican/Hispanic neighborhoods and go door to door since Mexican other Hispanic illegals are the immediate problem here not other illegals. Discrimination isn't in and of itself a bad thing. I don't do political correctness ;)
 
I kind of agree with drinks. I don't know about making people who hire illegals into felons, but huge fines would certainly eliminate the illegal immigrant job market, as long as the fines were enforced completely.

As I said I've grown up around illegals. I in no way support the fact that they are here, but the fault lies squarely on our(American's) shoulders. We have been activley allowing the continuation of this problem with little or no repercussions.

I don't buy the fact that they are all here just to work. The majority of them may be, but there is no denying a huge increase in gang problems here. There are problems between Sureno (southern, or Mexican) and Norteno (northern or Chicano) groups. They hate each other with a passion, and the problems spill into the streets.

I've also heard that there is a large increase of Meth production in California tied to illegals. As a youth, I knew gang members from both sides of the Sureno/Norteno issue, and a large part of the gang problem is Meth dealing.

While there is some criminality involved other than the illegal border crossing, it just seems an untenable goal to round 'em all up and deport 'em. All the illegals I've known don't even want to be here. Their families are back home, and they come here to make money and send it home.

On a recent trip to Malaque, Mexico, I saw quite a few new houses being built slowly by the sporadic income of family working illegally in the States. Once they've built up enough funds to live comfortably in Mexico, they return there. This isn't every case, but a large percentage I would guess. If we remove the market for illegal labor, there's not much incentive for them to continue living here illegally.

Having said all of that, I would encourage anyone to do some research on Aztlan, which shows the beliefs of some of those who wish to perpetuate illegal immigration. If I was a widely criticized and successful national radio talkshow host, this is where I would say "The enemy within."
 
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