The purpose of lever action rifles in today's market
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icedog, who doesn't carry with a round in the chamber?
I am a fan of the leverguns ..... I find them ergonomically superior to the the AR ..... which I find completely soul-less. I'm buying an AR next.....
What is their purpose? Same as nearly all products:
Why, TO SELL, of course!
Every tool has features as well as drawbacks...... the more specialized toward a particular purpose, the less suited it will be for other purposes.
I am a fan of the leverguns ..... I find them ergonomically superior to the the AR ..... which I find completely soul-less. I'm buying an AR next.....
What is their purpose? Same as nearly all products:
Why, TO SELL, of course!
Every tool has features as well as drawbacks...... the more specialized toward a particular purpose, the less suited it will be for other purposes.
Strafer Gott
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A lever is usually kept clean of scopes. The gun is robust, unfettered from preserving scope alignment. When you walk with it, the grip around the action is just so natural, everything rides along so nice and effortlessly.
Up jumps the game, and just as quick the lever gun comes up, the thumb rolls the hammer back, the open sights frame the shot, pow! It's gutting time.
Jump shooting is what lever guns do best. As long as deer hang out in swamps,there will be a market for lever guns. I just hope we don't forget how to make them.
Thanks for the eyes
Up jumps the game, and just as quick the lever gun comes up, the thumb rolls the hammer back, the open sights frame the shot, pow! It's gutting time.
Jump shooting is what lever guns do best. As long as deer hang out in swamps,there will be a market for lever guns. I just hope we don't forget how to make them.
Thanks for the eyes
Catfishman
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They're handy.
Jack O'Conner
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Lever action carbines are for hunting and fun shooting targets.
TR
TR
phil mcwilliam
New member
The reason lever action rifles are currently manufactured is to supply a market demand. While a particular individual may not want a lever action rifle, there are many that want to shoot, plink, collect or hunt with a lever gun. It really is up to a persons individual taste.
I have lever action & bolt action hunting rifles. For maybe 20 years my .308 Sako finnwolf lever action rifle was my first choice hunting rifle, with my other bolt actions remaining in the safe. The finnwolf could hardly be described as a cowboy gun, & it does shoot under 1 inch groups at 100 yards, which is better than a lot of bolt action rifles I have shot. The Sako finnwolf lever action does provide slightly faster follow-up shots than a bolt action, and is reliable enough for me to carry on several overseas hunting trips.
There was probably a bit of a novelty involved in my purchase of this rifle some 30 years ago, as I really liked the look of the rifle, but the Sako finnwolf lever action .308 has proved a reliable work horse for me. I've used it from long range (300 to 400 yard) prone varmit shooting, to chasing pigs on motorbikes with it slung over my shoulder, to hunting red deer in the jungle mountains of New Zealand.
To not understand what purpose a lever action rifle may be used is rather narrow minded.
I have lever action & bolt action hunting rifles. For maybe 20 years my .308 Sako finnwolf lever action rifle was my first choice hunting rifle, with my other bolt actions remaining in the safe. The finnwolf could hardly be described as a cowboy gun, & it does shoot under 1 inch groups at 100 yards, which is better than a lot of bolt action rifles I have shot. The Sako finnwolf lever action does provide slightly faster follow-up shots than a bolt action, and is reliable enough for me to carry on several overseas hunting trips.
There was probably a bit of a novelty involved in my purchase of this rifle some 30 years ago, as I really liked the look of the rifle, but the Sako finnwolf lever action .308 has proved a reliable work horse for me. I've used it from long range (300 to 400 yard) prone varmit shooting, to chasing pigs on motorbikes with it slung over my shoulder, to hunting red deer in the jungle mountains of New Zealand.
To not understand what purpose a lever action rifle may be used is rather narrow minded.
Bingo. Or Bullseye in our case.
I'm asking because I see the bolt-action and semi-auto rifles dominate the market at the range and shooting competitions. Besides being a brush gun (still not quite sure what this means because any "sporter" rifle can be a brush gun in my opinion) and used for cowboy action competition, not sure what attributes of the lever action bring to the table in TODAY's market. That is why I posed the question with "today" in the title.
Thanks all for your response because I don't have the option to ask at the range (why don't people bring them to the range?).
Lever guns are hunting guns. You can wrap your hand around the receiver and crawl through thick brush with out getting snagged or worry about getting mud in the action. It will still work. They are also very balanced. You would have to hold one for a couple of hours to appreciate it. Hunt with an ar on a sling rattling around, or holding it with 2 hands cause it so unbalanced. AR's are better suited for people shooting back at you than hunting. Besides that a medium bore ar is gonna cost you close to a grand for one that wont jam on you all the time. Lever gun can be had for $300 in mint condition.
Funny I was sighting in a peep sight on my 336 this weekend, 2 AR's were getting disassembled on the line due to malfunctions. I was only there for an hour and a half.
Funny I was sighting in a peep sight on my 336 this weekend, 2 AR's were getting disassembled on the line due to malfunctions. I was only there for an hour and a half.
First of all, its not an either or situation.
Now, if you are asking what does a lever gun bring to today's market that other guns don't? Well, lets take a look....
The classic and most common centerfire lever guns are the Winchester, Marlin and Savage 99. The Browning BLR is a realtive newcomer, and no where near as common as the others with their over a century of production of different models.
All these rifles have some things in common, besides the lever. They are flat sided at the balance point (the action) and fit well in a single hand carry. Some bolt guns fit well, as do some pumps. Very few semiautos do.
One thing you'll have a tough time doing is carry that AR comfortably balanced in one hand...especially if its a flattop model.
Another thing lever guns bring to the market is the range of cartridges available. The BLR will handle modern high intensity rounds, matching most of the bolt gun's ablilties there. SO, if you are sold on a lever, you need not be stuck with a turn of the 20th century round, (which still does the job quite well enough) if you don't want to be.
There are models of lever gun made to shoot pistol rounds. Not the 9mm everyone loves today, but .357 Magnum and .44 Magnum, as well as classic old time rounds like 32-20, 38-40, 44-40, etc.
There are some semi autos that handle 9mm and .45ACP, but many factors work against those rounds as best for small game, and out of carbines they are not the best available choices for deer even when only compared to other "pistol" cartridges.
There are no bolt guns, or pumps in common use that have actions scaled to the pistol cartridges. They are all built to take the rifle (2" or more) class cases.
Another thing a lever takes advantage of is that in suitable calibers, they are legal everywhere. There are some places where semi-autos are not legal for hunting. No advantage over the bolt or pump there, but if you live where semi's are not allowed that takes them completely out of the running.
Another point for the lever gun, is magazine capacity. Matches the bolt & pump, at worst, and in some calibers exceeds them. There are also lever guns with detatchable magazines, so if you wanted to, you could match the capacity of the common semis, game laws permitting.
Rifle weight can vary widely, some lever guns are quite heavy (heft an 86 Winchester) but the common Win 94 is pretty light, and the Marlin 336 only slightly heavier. The majority of bolt guns tend to run a pound or so heavier.
One thing to remember is that bolt guns, and the majority of semis are adaptations of military arms. Some of them are quite drastically evolved from those origins, but those are the origins. Rugged, and generally heavier constructed than absolutely necessary for sport hunting. Generations of hunters took off wood (and often metal) from military bolt guns to make them better adapted to sporting use. Semi's (until the most recent generation of designs) were even less adaptable, partiucularly in terms of removing excess weight.
In today's market? Lever's don't offer a lot that other actions can't do, but there are a few things that they still shine at, just as well as they always did. No rifle design is the best at all things, and what's best for some things is far from best for others. As a class, there is a wide range of capabilities available from lever guns, for for millions of hunters over the years, plenty to bring home the venison.
Pick any reasonable (North American) hunting situation, and you can find some lever gun that will perform more than adequately well (if the shooter themself is up to the task). You can also find a lever gun that is not the best choice for a given situation. Pretty much the same as other action types in that regard. Remember what they were made for, small and big game hunting. Not combat, not benchrest, or precision varminting. A good enough, if not the best possible for most things, and damn good at a few things.
You can think of lever gun guys as John Wayne wanna be's if you want. Doesn't matter to me. For a lot of us, old AND young, there is more to life than alloy and plastic. There is steel and walnut!
Now, if you are asking what does a lever gun bring to today's market that other guns don't? Well, lets take a look....
The classic and most common centerfire lever guns are the Winchester, Marlin and Savage 99. The Browning BLR is a realtive newcomer, and no where near as common as the others with their over a century of production of different models.
All these rifles have some things in common, besides the lever. They are flat sided at the balance point (the action) and fit well in a single hand carry. Some bolt guns fit well, as do some pumps. Very few semiautos do.
One thing you'll have a tough time doing is carry that AR comfortably balanced in one hand...especially if its a flattop model.
Another thing lever guns bring to the market is the range of cartridges available. The BLR will handle modern high intensity rounds, matching most of the bolt gun's ablilties there. SO, if you are sold on a lever, you need not be stuck with a turn of the 20th century round, (which still does the job quite well enough) if you don't want to be.
There are models of lever gun made to shoot pistol rounds. Not the 9mm everyone loves today, but .357 Magnum and .44 Magnum, as well as classic old time rounds like 32-20, 38-40, 44-40, etc.
There are some semi autos that handle 9mm and .45ACP, but many factors work against those rounds as best for small game, and out of carbines they are not the best available choices for deer even when only compared to other "pistol" cartridges.
There are no bolt guns, or pumps in common use that have actions scaled to the pistol cartridges. They are all built to take the rifle (2" or more) class cases.
Another thing a lever takes advantage of is that in suitable calibers, they are legal everywhere. There are some places where semi-autos are not legal for hunting. No advantage over the bolt or pump there, but if you live where semi's are not allowed that takes them completely out of the running.
Another point for the lever gun, is magazine capacity. Matches the bolt & pump, at worst, and in some calibers exceeds them. There are also lever guns with detatchable magazines, so if you wanted to, you could match the capacity of the common semis, game laws permitting.
Rifle weight can vary widely, some lever guns are quite heavy (heft an 86 Winchester) but the common Win 94 is pretty light, and the Marlin 336 only slightly heavier. The majority of bolt guns tend to run a pound or so heavier.
One thing to remember is that bolt guns, and the majority of semis are adaptations of military arms. Some of them are quite drastically evolved from those origins, but those are the origins. Rugged, and generally heavier constructed than absolutely necessary for sport hunting. Generations of hunters took off wood (and often metal) from military bolt guns to make them better adapted to sporting use. Semi's (until the most recent generation of designs) were even less adaptable, partiucularly in terms of removing excess weight.
In today's market? Lever's don't offer a lot that other actions can't do, but there are a few things that they still shine at, just as well as they always did. No rifle design is the best at all things, and what's best for some things is far from best for others. As a class, there is a wide range of capabilities available from lever guns, for for millions of hunters over the years, plenty to bring home the venison.
Pick any reasonable (North American) hunting situation, and you can find some lever gun that will perform more than adequately well (if the shooter themself is up to the task). You can also find a lever gun that is not the best choice for a given situation. Pretty much the same as other action types in that regard. Remember what they were made for, small and big game hunting. Not combat, not benchrest, or precision varminting. A good enough, if not the best possible for most things, and damn good at a few things.
You can think of lever gun guys as John Wayne wanna be's if you want. Doesn't matter to me. For a lot of us, old AND young, there is more to life than alloy and plastic. There is steel and walnut!
44 AMP,
Was there a reason you left out Henry rifles? Just curious.
I think that in my limited experience.
The lever action rifles fills the gaps between bolt guns and military rifles.
I think that it has better rate of fire than a bolt, but usually slower than a semi-auto. I've seen some vids of cowboy shooters unloading a lever action pretty quick.
I think it's handier and easier to carry than a bolt gun or military rifle. If I'm hiking or camping out, I'd want the lever action. A do-it-all type of rifle. I'd like to pick up a .357 lever action so that I have a common ammo with my .357 S&W. To use for my 'go to bag'.
I own a bolt gun, and a lever action. I do plan on owning a Military semi-auto at some point. I think everyone needs a 'black rifle'. I don't just mean an AR, when there are SKS, AK's, FN, ACR, and so on.
Anyway.. just my 2 cents..
Was there a reason you left out Henry rifles? Just curious.
I think that in my limited experience.
The lever action rifles fills the gaps between bolt guns and military rifles.
I think that it has better rate of fire than a bolt, but usually slower than a semi-auto. I've seen some vids of cowboy shooters unloading a lever action pretty quick.
I think it's handier and easier to carry than a bolt gun or military rifle. If I'm hiking or camping out, I'd want the lever action. A do-it-all type of rifle. I'd like to pick up a .357 lever action so that I have a common ammo with my .357 S&W. To use for my 'go to bag'.
I own a bolt gun, and a lever action. I do plan on owning a Military semi-auto at some point. I think everyone needs a 'black rifle'. I don't just mean an AR, when there are SKS, AK's, FN, ACR, and so on.
Anyway.. just my 2 cents..
the lever action is american, pure and simple. its rugged and reliable.
john browning did alot of work designing lever actions and that gives a warm fuzzy sensation to normal folks.
but the thing that a lever gun exceeds at is user friendliness. you work the action to get a cartridg ein the chamber, take the safety off, aim, squeeze repeat.
there is no trying to figure out why the gun wont shoot when the safety is on. i dont like 3 position safeties on a rifle, when its cold, it takes to long to make sure its on the ight setting. i do that by feel with a lever.
john browning did alot of work designing lever actions and that gives a warm fuzzy sensation to normal folks.
but the thing that a lever gun exceeds at is user friendliness. you work the action to get a cartridg ein the chamber, take the safety off, aim, squeeze repeat.
there is no trying to figure out why the gun wont shoot when the safety is on. i dont like 3 position safeties on a rifle, when its cold, it takes to long to make sure its on the ight setting. i do that by feel with a lever.
This is all interesting reading and that’s fine, but I believe we are missing the central point all together.
That point being;
Why would you care?
Look, I and many other men and women hunt with muzzleloaders for fun. I have and many others have hunted with long bows and wood arrows. I ALSO SKY DIVE, AND I USED TO BE A HIGH ALTITUDE CLIMBER!
I am not asking you to do it.
If I do it, why would you care?
We all do the things we enjoy in our chosen sport.
Why would that be offensive to anyone else?
Why would you try to convince me that I am “wrong” when my old fashioned flintlock kills a deer, an elk or moose as well as any modern gun I have ever killed them with (and I have! …..I know what I am talking about here)
If we come out with pulse-lasers or partial-beams in the sporting arms market tomorrow, are you going to throw away all you guns you have now?
Probably not!
And you shouldn’t.
Neither should we give up on a lever action.
PS.
I have a browning BLR in 30-06 that shoots 220 grain bullets under an inch. It’s fast and accurate, and as strong as most modern bolt actions. In fact it has a rotating bolt just like a bolt action, with LOTS of contact in the locking areas.
So the idea that it’s “not as good” is going to hard to convince me of.
I would not choose it to go into combat with.
So?
That’s not the point here.
That point being;
Why would you care?
Look, I and many other men and women hunt with muzzleloaders for fun. I have and many others have hunted with long bows and wood arrows. I ALSO SKY DIVE, AND I USED TO BE A HIGH ALTITUDE CLIMBER!
I am not asking you to do it.
If I do it, why would you care?
We all do the things we enjoy in our chosen sport.
Why would that be offensive to anyone else?
Why would you try to convince me that I am “wrong” when my old fashioned flintlock kills a deer, an elk or moose as well as any modern gun I have ever killed them with (and I have! …..I know what I am talking about here)
If we come out with pulse-lasers or partial-beams in the sporting arms market tomorrow, are you going to throw away all you guns you have now?
Probably not!
And you shouldn’t.
Neither should we give up on a lever action.
PS.
I have a browning BLR in 30-06 that shoots 220 grain bullets under an inch. It’s fast and accurate, and as strong as most modern bolt actions. In fact it has a rotating bolt just like a bolt action, with LOTS of contact in the locking areas.
So the idea that it’s “not as good” is going to hard to convince me of.
I would not choose it to go into combat with.
So?
That’s not the point here.
It was just in the context of the discussion.
On the other hand, I personally don't because I don't hunt. Yet. In the field, where the purpose is to try to kill, I absolutely would.
That being said, I was trying to clarify the position of one being faster than the other and how.
I'll also add nearly unmatched versatility can be packaged in a lever. A trapper length '92 Winchester or clone in 44 Mag or 45 Colt gives one a very light compact gun. Equally capable of shooting 180-200gr cast bullets at 800fps for plinking and small game, 240-250gr hollow points from 1200-1800 for HD or medium game or 340-360gr from 1400-1600fps that'll take anything that walks the earth down.
As for wanting to be like John Wayne, I'll quote a line from "An Unfinished Life" when Robert Redford tells the abusive boyfriend "I don't see how that works in your favor".
As for wanting to be like John Wayne, I'll quote a line from "An Unfinished Life" when Robert Redford tells the abusive boyfriend "I don't see how that works in your favor".
I take my 1892s to the range (indoor 100yds) all the time (mine are .357mag). And I've seen others including a couple of very old Winchester's (one lady told me her's had been her grandfathers bought originally sometime in the 1920s). There's often one or more lever action .22s in use too, as well as a number of scoped Marlin .30-30s.
Guess it just depends on the range and the community of folks it serves.
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