The purpose of lever action rifles in today's market

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I myself can't wait to buy my 1st Lever. I've been checking out the Marlin 336's in 30-30 and that will be my next rifle. I love the feel of it and love the nostalgia even more. Lever actions have character!
 
Besides the Browning BLR, why are current lever action not offered in more common bolt action calibers (ie, 30-06, .270, .223 etc.)?

Marlin and Winchester are the only other manufacturers making centerfire lever?
 
They are not made in popular bolt action calibers because of the overall cartridge length and pressure of the round. Much like you cant get .308 in an ar-15 platform. You have to step up to ar-10. the 94 and 336 action will not handle the larger cartridges.

There are are other manufacturers of lever besides marlin, browning, and winchester. There is also henry, chiappa, mossberg, and a few others.
 
the 94 and 336 action will not handle the larger cartridges.
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Well that is mis leading, do you mean larger calibers or longer cartridges?

Hate to tell you, but a .45-70 is considered a fairly large caliber, in a fairly large cartridge. Same goes for a .444 and if you are going teat for tat, a .307 Win in a model 94 is the exact same as a .308, only with a rim. Same goes for the BB 356 in a '94, same as a .358.....same pressure too.

From Paco Kelly's article on BB 94 levergun chambered in .444:
In my Winchester 444, I can load the Keith 250 grainer to almost 2600 fps and almost 4000 lbs of muzzle energy. For very large game I load the 300 grain JSP to 2426 fps and over 3900 lbs of muzzle energy. I use Freedom Arms 300 grain jacket bullets, they are performers to the N’th degree. I have two precious boxes of them left. These are the Winchester loads now not Marlin...
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The levergun, changed the way wars were fought:

The Russian infantry accepted these losses in their usual stoic manner, but by the time they were 600-700 yards from the Turks, they began to unravel and break up into clusters. Some groups lay down to avoid the hail of lead and were goaded to their feet by their officers who valiantly urged them onwards. The concussion of Turkish rifle fire was constant and was augmented by Turkish artillery firing shrapnel shells into the Russian line. As the Turk officers called out each new range change, the riflemen adjusted their sights and poured forth more bullets in the general direction of the Russian line. The Winchesters lay next to many of them, fully loaded with 14 rounds. A box of 500 rounds was placed next to each repeating rifle, and other ammunition reserves were close at hand.

Still they came forward, these obedient Russian sol*diers, until they reached a point 200 yards from the Turkish trench line, when the order was given for the Turkish artillery, to cease fire and the riflemen to pick up their Winchesters and commence rapid fire. As the Winchesters spewed forth their rapid fire fusillade of lead, Russians fell in greater numbers than before. Still they came forward, bayonets fixed, ready to impale their oppressors in the trenches. According to prior plans, the Turks stopped shoot*ing when the Russians were about 50 yards from the trench line, and they now abandoned their first line of trenches and ran back into their second trench line, where they commenced their rifle fire all over again. The Russian advance stalled and took cover in the Turkish first line of trenches.

Prince Schachowskoi received a message that Gen. Krudner was sending a regiment to reinforce him, but they lost their way and never arrived in time to help. At 4:00 p.m., he could hold himself back no longer and ordered his remaining troops to charge the second line of trenches. The long-range Peabody-Martinis started their deadly plunging fire again, and Russians fell in large numbers as they worked their way uphill. closer to the second line. Once more the Winchesters took up the close-range fight, sending their wall of hot lead, decimating the oncoming infantry line. In a few places, Russians managed to get into the second line trench*es and, surprisingly, two companies actually got into Plevna itself, but Osman threw strong reserves into these points and drove them back.
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From the article on "The Plevna Delay"
 
I think lever rifles go in the same category as bolt rifles. They're not full auto or semi auto. They both have to be manually operated to load a new round into the chamber, but just different mechanisms.

I don't really see lever action rifles as a novelty gun. Doesn't almost every closet in the mid west or south have a trusty 30-30 or 22LR lever gun?
 
Old Time Hunter said:
Hate to tell you, but a .45-70 is considered a fairly large caliber, in a fairly large cartridge. Same goes for a .444 and if you are going teat for tat, a .307 Win in a model 94 is the exact same as a .308, only with a rim. Same goes for the BB 356 in a '94, same as a .358.....same pressure too.
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You can hate to tell me that all you want. News flash!!!!! there is no 45-70 or 444 in 336 action. 358 winchester is not the same OAL as 308 win nor is the 307. The 308 is longer than both of those rounds. Also the pressure difference in starting loads is at least 10,000 cup. 308 being higher than the other 2. Load manual is your friend. You should read one sometime. The marlins designed for .358win were beefed up and you cannot rebore a regular 336 to .358win since it wont handle the pressure.:mad: Every thread I run into a know it all, that is completely wrong. Really starting to get under my skin.....Every time.... You didn't even reference pressure. You referenced the projectile energy.
Old Time Hunter said:
I can load the Keith 250 grainer to almost 2600 fps and almost 4000 lbs of muzzle energy. For very large game I load the 300 grain JSP to 2426 fps and over 3900 lbs of muzzle energy. I use Freedom Arms 300 grain jacket bullets, they are performers to the N’th degree. I have two precious boxes of them left. These are the Winchester loads now not Marlin...
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You can hate to tell me that all you want.
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That is why I hated to tell you.

News flash!!!!! there is no 45-70 or 444 in 336 action
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Really? Better do some research yourself, there is a reason that it is called a .444 Marlin. Originally made in the 336 frame back in '64

358 winchester is not the same OAL as 308 win nor is the 307. The 308 is longer than both of those rounds.
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This is true, but the case size's are almost carbon copies, just the .307 and the .356 do not use spitzer bullets. The length is at the end of the bullet.

Also the pressure difference in starting loads is at least 10,000 cup. 308 being higher than the other 2.
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Have gone though many manuals, also have direct contact with Hodgden, starting loads are a suggestion, recommended full loads are generally considered max. All four, the .308, .307, 358, and the .356 have 49k to 51k max CUP pressures for factory loading.

The marlins designed for .358win were beefed up and you cannot rebore a regular 336 to .358win since it wont handle the pressure.
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Never said anything about a Marlin, said BB '94 which is a Winchester.

A quick reference might be to look up Cartridges of the World, they explain the similarities and also the differences such as you can hand load a .308/.358 to higher pressures due to being able to move the bullet farther out of the case(hence allowing for more powder).

Every thread I run into a know it all, that is completely wrong.
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Never said that I know it all, but been messing with these calibers since 1964, so maybe experience doesn't let us "know it all", but it is a lot more than apparently you know. Recommend you wander over to Leverguns.com and read the articles before spout'n off.
 
Here's some good reading for you "knowitalls"

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BQY/is_6_50/ai_115495759/?tag=content;col1

http://www.leverguns.com/articles/fryxell/microgrove-barrels.htm

http://www.chuckhawks.com/marlin_336_444_1895.htm

and for the ultimate in Marlin knowledge.... Marlin Firearms: A History of the Guns and the Company That Made Them by Bill Brophy
Just so happens I keep a copy in the bathroom. But i'm sure you two will swear the book's wrong. Probably throw in a condescending "son" or "hate to tell ya" just for good measure. It's ok, ill still be here to tell you the book is right.
 
iamdb,

Wow, for a guy going WAY over the top accusing others of not being knowlegable, twice you have referred to Marlin chambering the 336 in .358 Winchester.

Here:

"oh and being in contact with hodgdon's is total smoke blowing. big whoop you sent an email asking for a particular load data. way to make nothing sound like something. and just for the record the 336 was only made in 30wcf, 35rem, 32spec, 219 zipper, 308mx, 44mag, 338mx and 358win. I really wish the mods would just delete your non sense. other people will read it and believe you know what your talking about."

and again,


"You can hate to tell me that all you want. News flash!!!!! there is no 45-70 or 444 in 336 action. 358 winchester is not the same OAL as 308 win nor is the 307. The 308 is longer than both of those rounds. Also the pressure difference in starting loads is at least 10,000 cup. 308 being higher than the other 2. Load manual is your friend. You should read one sometime. The marlins designed for .358win were beefed up and you cannot rebore a regular 336 to .358win since it wont handle the pressure. Every thread I run into a know it all, that is completely wrong. Really starting to get under my skin.....Every time.... You didn't even reference pressure. You referenced the projectile energy."




Really ? You are such a knowlegable guy and you believe Marlin produced a 358 lever gun ?

And, there have been quite a few "regular" 336s in 35 Remington rechambered to 358 Winchester. Just do a search, pretty common conversion, but never a production chambering by Marlin. Oh, and what about the 356 Winchester and the 38-55 in your "all inclusive, just for the record " chambering list ?

Like you said, "every thread I run into a know it all, that is completely wrong."
 
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Wow......

...and I thought the " ...does the military need a new cartridge...? " discussion went over a cliff in a handbasket.

;)
 
I own and shoot lever, bolt, and a couple pump rifles. I my self can not chamber rounds as fast or as accuratly in the bolt or pump as i can in the lever. It just stays put in the shoulder and my eye just dont leave the site....plus just love the sound of the action...but at the same time if and when i buy levers they are the old 99' s or winchesters to...just like the look.
 
I admit to mixed emotions on the what's-faster-lever-or-pump question. My Model 12 will take
out both low & high house birds on station #7 in (literally) a half second.

But then..... Model-12's are magic from the gods.

(Winchester`92s are a close second) ;)
 
I hunt deer in thick woods with a 336 (cut down to 16") because it's relatively light, it's fast pointing, it's more accurate than I am in the woods, and I like the way it feels.
Could I get a semi or bolt that would do the same thing? Maybe. But I've shot a lot of guns, and I like my lever the best.

Asking why people like lever guns is like asking why they like classic cars, or Harley Davidson motorcycles. Some questions just can't be answered with numbers.
 
Ever notice how any thread of more than two, maybe three, pages invariably gets into some sort of squabbling and arrogant postings?
 
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