Something New: Springfield Armory XD Pistols??

Tamara, I agree with you that the name Springfield Armory will be recognizeable ( as decietful as it is) and the parts theory will not be an issue...

The Beretta mags do have to be converted, not the most comforting thought when you realize that this pistol has ONLY one purpose and that is as a self defense weapon...I am not one to use after market nor converted mags when it is my ass that is on the line!

As for the cute 50 yard remark with the M1A, let me elaborate...

The M1A standard that is imported and assembled by Springfield Armory is basically a service rifle (ie. designed to shoot 3-4" groups at 100 yards)...For $1100 they offer nothing more than the Polytech and Norincos at nearly half the price!!! Sure you could drop more money on a Loaded model and get improved accuracy...Of course if I were going to spend what many of you spend on a loaded model, I would contact one of the many, many smiths out there who specialize in these weapons...

Your the moderator, so here is some of your info...this link displays some of the folks who are less than happy w/ Springfields Service and prducts!!! Also it seems general opinion displayed by many on this link is that Springfields are (go figure) overpriced and that Springfield is basically taking advantage of a monopoly as they have the corner on the M-14/M1A market...Also the mention of a foriegn made reciever (perhaps they have merged with Kathy Lee Gifford, only this time replacing the sewing machines the children are chained to with lathes!)

http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=94580&highlight=m1a

This link shows general accuracy of the M1A...it looks like a pretty good speaking for Springfield until the fellow at the bottoms of the link chimes in w/ what his Norinco will do...every bit of the same that the M1A standard will do!!!

http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=94841&highlight=m1a

I'll stick with my AR-10A4, my Hellenic SAR-8 and my DSA FAL...all are superior weapons to the M1A Springfield offers!

In short, Springfield Armory by function and definition is an importer and is very similar to " Century Arms Inc." w/o as much of the half-hazard quality...but hardly worth the high prices they ask for their weapons!!! If anyone doubts this just look at the HS2000/XD as an example of this...same weapon for $100 more, and that $100 more is 25% more than it would have cost you...Do you really think it costs Springfield Armory 25% more than it costed Intrac to bring you the same pistol???
 
leej,

Thank you for this info. I wonder if these Beretta mags just fit right in or if they require modifcation?
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The mags are identical, save for the location of the mag catch hole. Functionality is not a problem after a new hole has been cut in the old mag body. The magazine will then work in both pistols.
 
SOLARPIMP,

Do you really think it costs Springfield Armory 25% more than it costed Intrac to bring you the same pistol???
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You should be asking yourself "Does Springfield spend 25% more (or more) on advertising for this gun?", "Will Springfield's parts availability and service be 25% better?", and other questions like that.

As far as comparing the quality of a standard Polytech M-14 to the SA gun: the metallurgy of the Polytechs is inferior, period. Nobody sends off their SA recievers to be cryotreated or for other voodoo mods and demon tweaks to "make them as good as a Springfield".

I guess you and I will just have to disagree on that one.
 
Tamara, I am okay w/ agreeing to disagree...

I know there were some "Soft Metal" issues w/ pre-89 models...but they were squared away by the time the post 89/ pre 94 imports arrived (these are the ones w/ the "FAKE" flash-hiders...My pal has a post '89 Polytech and he has easily put 6000 rounds down the tube and it still passes headspace and throat erosion tests. One would think that with insufficiently hardened metal his weapon would pass neither of these tests after 6000+ rounds...



...of course if one had a large scale gunsmithing business and one specialized in the M1A/M-14 one would not oppose (and probably would even support, confirm and invent) accusations stating that these weapons were made of metal that is "TOO SOFT"...Heck it would be good for business!!! No one hardens Springfield Armory Recievers because no one tells anyone they have to! This is simply not the case w/ the Chinese M-14S, but it doesnt substantiate that this is necessary on the post-89 M014S!


And as for your question "Will Springfield's Service be 25% better?" Remember 25% of ZERO is ZERO! Here is your answer (and once again from your board)...Lets name this one "More happy Springfield customers!!!"
http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=91185&highlight=m1a+and+go+and+no+go
 
contacted SA and 15rd factory pre-ban mags will be
available in a matter of weeks. They are waiting for a
a shipment from intrac.The mags were made for the
precursor to the HS2000 used by the Croatian Army
since 91.
 
Leej, I use S&W 59 series hi-caps by Promag in my HS2000. You have to drill a hole, do some filing to shape it, and shave the follower down a bit - nothing too complicated.
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Thanks Tony for the info. about the S&W59 mags.

I guess that I must have been born under an unlucky star because I bought some pro-mags last year for my Sig P226. They hung up when inserting them but once I would wiggle them around and get them into the pistol they did work. Later I returned them to the seller and bought some original P226 mags. Naturally the originals worked very well.

As far as modifying any mags or modifying any weapons I will wait to see what the ATF says first and play it safe.

Lets hope the post about the original high cap mags that are soon to be imported bears fruit and comes to pass.

I think that Sprinfield will eventually lower the price way down on this weapon in order to entice people to buy them. With the economy in as bad a shape as it is in right now I think this is a real possibilty.

Once the price drops down to respectable levels and the high caps get here I think I will definately be interested in purchasing one of these pistols but not now at the rip off prices and lack of high cap mags.

Lets face it when an American company like Ruger can sell automatics in the $300 dollar range. Springfield can easily sell the Croation pistols way below $300.00. If the pistol is to survive in the market place this will definitely have to happen.
 
Solar, just curious regards your anti-Springfield tirade. Did you own 1 and have a bad experience?

So what if Springfield is an importer. How many manufacturers are 100% integrated and make all their own parts? - virtually none. The automakers buy frames from A.O. Smith, tires from B.F. Blowout, etc., etc.

We've been getting good response from Springfield over on the HS2000 forum since they assumed distributorship. They seem serious about making the XD succeed. Hope it doesn't turn out to be lip service...

Tony
 
Here is your answer (and once again from your board)...Lets name this one "More happy Springfield customers!!!"
Click to expand...

I love all this "Here's another horror tale about Springfield from your board!!!!!!", as though I'd been deficient or remiss in reading and memorizing them.

Search this board, and you'll find tales of woe from customers of: Glock, SIG, Beretta, Heckler & Koch, Taurus, EAA, CZ, Colt, *&*, Kimber, Remington, Walther, Winchester, Magnum Research, Kel-Tec, NAA, Kahr, Mossberg, Ruger, KBI, etcetera ad nauseum. ;)

If I only bought brands that nobody's ever posted a problem with here or dragged a broken example of into my store, I wouldn't own any guns. :rolleyes:

I can find you threads about jamming Glocks and exploding 1911's, rusty SIG's and fragile USP's, and on, and on,and on, and on...
 
leej, here is a letter from the BATF in regards to modifying mags. Also s&w promags do fit and function perfectly in the hs and they cost $15 unlike glock mags that run anywhere from $60 and up used. The promags also still function perfectly in s&w model 59 after the modification. Here's the letter: DEPARTMENT OF THE TREASURY
BUREAU OF ALCOHOL, TOBACCO AND FIREARMS
WASHINGTON, DC 20226
OCT 20 2000

903050:CHB
3311/1-051

Dear Mr. Bardwell:

This refers to your letter of September 15, 2000, in which you
asked about modifying a magazine.

As defined in section 921(a)(31), of Title 18, United States Code
(U.S.C.), the term large capacity ammunition feeding device -

(A) means a magazine, belt, drum, feed strip, or similar
device manufactured after the date of enactment of the Violent
Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act of 1994 (September 13,
1994) that has a capacity of, or that can be readily restored
or converted to accept, more than 10 rounds of ammunition; but

(B) does not include an attached tubular device designed to
accept,and capable of operating only with .22 caliber rimfire
ammunition.

It is generally unlawful for a person to transfer or possess a
large capacity ammunition feeding device as provided in 18 U.S.C.
section 922(w).

A magazine manufactured prior to September 13, 1994, would not be
a large capacity ammunition-feeding device as defined. You asked
about altering such a magazine so that it could fit in another type
of firearm.

If the altered magazine could no longer function in the firearm for
which it was originally designed, it is our opinion that a new
magazine has been manufactured. The fact that the materials used
to construct the new magazine were made prior to September 13,
1994, would not mean that the magazine was manufactured prior to that date. The altered magazine would be a large capacity
ammunition feeding device and it would be subject to the
prohibition in section 922(w).

If the magazine has minor modifications performed, such as cutting
an additional slot for a different style of magazine release, and
it still functions in the original firearm for which it was
designed, we do not believe that it would be considered a new
magazine. However, it major changes are made it is possible that
a new magazine has been manufactured. It is not possible for us to
render a final opinion on such magazines without examining a
sample.


We trust that the foregoing has been responsive to your inquiry.
If you have further questions concerning this matter, please
contact us.


Sincerely yours,


[signed]
Curtis H.A. Bartlett
Acting Chief, Firearms Technology Branch
 
to Railroader

Thanks for the very informative reply by the ATF.

What is really scary about reading this is that the ATF leaves the queastion open to their interpretation at the particular moment and on the particular occasion.

Lets look at this senario. You modify one of your mags. Then check to make sure that it fits the original by trying it in a friends gun. The ATF gets the magazine and tries it in one of their guns and it does not fit. The ATF then ignors the results with your friends gun and uses its gun to convict you.

I think I will stay away from modifying any mags because you are tredding on all fully thin ice to say t he least.
 
leej, the hs mag modification doesn't effect the operation of the mag in the original gun at all. The mag catch hole on a s&w mag is on the side. The hs stock mags have a small hole in the front. You add the hole to the front of the s&w mag and it will now lock in the hs pistol. Here's a picture, the stainless mag is a stock hs, the blue mag is a s&w promag. The mag catch hole has been added to the s&w mag.
 

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To Railroader

Hey thanks for the excellent pictures. Now I am curious. The holes in the mags look professionally done.

Do you happen to know what type of tool was used to do this first class looking job. I am very curious.
 
For anyone worrying over these people knocking on the HS2000 / XD:

I have one, and it is fantastic! My dad has 2 Glock 19s from 1989, and they are no better, and offer a much thinner rail, which is molded in and therefore not serviceable, thinner flimsier parts in the firing area, far fewer features, and weighs about the same. The accuracy is great, as is the reliability. In fact, I bought it new, and have had 100% perfect funtioning - not one single glitch whatsoever. Was it the best deal around when it was $300? YES! Is it still a great deal at $475? YES. And the part about people shying away from it because it has no active safety? I don't think so, because nobody avoids Glocks or Kahrs, and when I was at the Gunshow buying my HS, there were 2 seperate stranger hanging behind me waiting to see if I didn't or couldn't buy it, so that they could.

Oh yes, the gun also surpasses the militaries upside-down-and-pour-dirt-into-it-then-rapid-fire-it-test easily.

And, yes S&W 9mm mags fit it very nicely, if you drill a hole into the mag. I could be wrong, but as long as the mag still functions unaided in its original gun, it is legal to modify the mag. Such is the case here.
 
Hey Molly, what is up NEW GUY :D

I love the HS2000s...my pal has one and I am trying to talk him out of it!!!

I don't love the fact Springfield Armory is importing it at a 37% increase in cost...What a JOKE!!!
 
Hmm.....

I'm glad somebody resurrected this thread. I picked up and dry fired the Springfield at my friendly local purveyor of firearms the other day. Such an odd looking shape, but seemed to fit my hand quite well. The trigger was, FOR ME, much better than the Glock. I have been looking for some sort of a "universal gun," a Glock without some of Glock features that I don't care for, this may be it. I was disappointed with the SW99 and Sigma, and the jury is still out on the HK-LEM. Now I find that I may have a use for the half dozen or more pre-ban 5900 series mags...And at a gun show for $389!
Think I'll keep my eye on this one and see what real life consumer field testers say in a few months.
 
To: Jhp147

You don't need to wait for real-world consumer reports of this gun - just go over to HS2000Talk.com, and you shall find many real-world reports already.

Also, ask on AR15.com about it - I have notice quite a few members there are HS2000 users.
 
Who cares what the gun rags say?

Ever see a bad review of a gun.

I only trust the e-community where I can get real feedback from real gun owners with no commercial interest in advertising or marketing revenues or profits.

They praised the Taurus PT-145 and look at it. customers are complaining about the crappy trigger and the frame cracks.

Just because someone prints it doesn't mean I'm going to even wipe my butt with it.

And I'm with you solarpimp.
 
Tamara, here's a different perspective.

People love their HKP7s. PERIOD. No question.

And thousands of civilians and law enforcement officers overall appear satisfied with their Glocks, Sigs, HKs, Kahr, CZs, Kimbers, Beretta's, or SW revolvers.

But solarpimp is expressing a building resentment for how some American businesses are operating.

Its all over the web. Not just here.

People don't like and don't understand how SA thinks they are going to sell the re-badged HS2000 as an XD and slap a 25 percent price increase on that bad boy and think that anybody with experience is going to buy it.

Again, in Seattle, those XDs are superglued to the glass with no hopes of moving because its in easy upsale into a Glock, Sig, HK USP or the like.


Try this on for size . . . .

What if Glock tried to force dealers into selling Glock 17s at a 25 percent increase at $600? They would be difficult to sell. In fact, they aren't selling as fast as the Glock 19/23s. At least to the bulk of the market which is civilian.

Solarpimp is merely expressing a growing resentment.

In a year, SA will have its answer from the American gun buying population. And the XD will go the way of the American buffalo unless they adapt that price!
 
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