Russia's Army Invades Georgia in Force: How should the US Government React??

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The last thing we need is a war with Russia. We need to stay out of this. It's not our fight. We've got bigger problems here at home we should be working on, instead of trying to play "world cop" for every country that gets picked on.
 
We've got bigger problems here at home we should be working on, instead of trying to play "world cop" for every country that gets picked on.

I agree but it was Georgia that picked the fight with Russia by bombarding and killing a dozen Russian peace keepers. Russia is not going to stand by and lets its soldiers and people get killed by some two bit country with a President that has a Napoleon complex. President Saakashvili stuck the proverbial stick into the bear's eye. And he got what he deserve which was a quick ass kicking by the Russians. The war seems to be over with Georgia army retreating back to Georgian territory. Now Russia has every right to defends it people. 90% of the population of South Ossetia are Russian nationals with full citizenship. South Ossetia is a autonomous region of Georgia with its own government and military. It has been under self rule since the early 1990s after the first civil war. Georgia signed the agreement to allow them to self govern then they want to take that away. BS, this guy Saakashvili should be the one that gets all the blame for this war and Georgia should have to rebuild everything destroyed. And the US should keep its nose out of this one unless we want to make the situation much worse.

Wanted to add that the US has been helping the Georgians rebuild their military since 2002. Before that it was a rag tag group of poorly trained soldiers. We have donated millions of dollars worth of gear, and weapons to them and sent over soldiers to train their army. Maybe this is why Saakashvili and his generals thought they could take on the Russian bear. Even though they are vastly outnumbered in man and materials. They don't even have an air force anymore.
 
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I agree but it was Georgia that picked the fight with Russia by bombarding and killing a dozen Russian peace keepers.

What provocation prompted that action? Could it have been when Gunmen in South Ossetia turn on monitors in July? There are plenty of "incidents" that both sides have been responsible for over a period of years. The local issues go back at least to 1918 as noted in Georgia vs. South Ossetia: roots of a 100-year conflict, so finding a starting point is a bit difficult.

The underlying issues are numerous: Russia absorbing Georgia’s breakaway republics; Georgia blocking WTO membership for Russia; Russian displeasure with Georgia and the Ukraine's efforts to join NATO, and; Russian payback to the UN over Kosovo's independence. The people of Georgia and South Ossetia are the losers in this game of global politics.
 
What provocation prompted that action?

The tensions between Georgia, South Ossetia and Russia are well documented. Still why would Georgia try to provoke Russia by shelling known Russian positions on the border of South Ossetia? That makes little tactical sense unless they really believed they could handle the Russians or Russia would not get involved. They must have know Russia would use this as excuse to attack Georgia. They gave Russia what they were looking for too invade. The leader of the country is a madman who believed that they could regain South Ossetia, and defeat the Russians in short time. The reality is that they will now be forced to knowledge South Ossetia's independence, In addition to having hundreds of Georgians killed in the fighting.
In addition to this one has to realize the US has been using Georgia as a pawn to destabilize the entire region and keep Russia off balance. We have been arming Georgia for several years now, and training their soldiers to take back the breakaway areas. We still have a contingent of US soldiers in the country. There are even rumors that they might be involved in the fighting. If this is true than we are in de facto war with Russia. By trying to push for several former Soviet republics to be become part of NATO we are exasperating the problems with Russia. Why the hell would we want to meddle with Russia affairs. How would we like it if Russia signed a treaty with Cuba, and several Central American countries to station troops and missile batteries near our borders. I would guess we would do more than protest it. Unfortunately Russia and the US are still locked in a Cold War brinkmanship. This only will lead to more death and destruction in the world.



http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/08/09/AR2008080900440.html?hpid=topnews U.S. Assails Russian 'Escalation' Of Crisis

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/World/2008/08/10/6402051-ap.html

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25684774/

http://www.kommersant.com/p-13072/r_527/South_Ossetia/
 
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200 or more SF Green Berets are stationed in Georgia as advisers, BBC intimated we have some dead..

The Russians are today claiming that foreign mercenaries have assisted the Georgian forces. They said that they have recovered bodies of black soldiers that they suspect are Americans. And that they have identified others as being Ukrainians.

Here is an official Russian government news video report all about these discoveries:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bcv-ynUDYHc

I always worry, though, when the government controls the news media, as they do in Russia.

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The war in Georgia continues to grow this weekend, as Russia has rejected having any immediate cease-fire.

Russian troops stationed in another breakaway section of Georgia called Abkhazia are now moving out of that part of the country. They announced that they intend to seize the western Georgia city of Zugdidi, which is well outside either of the disputed territories that Russia backs.

Soviet strategic bombers have also bombed a number of cities inside Georgia, including the key port city of Poti, where both the port itself, and oil storage facilities were destroyed.

In addition, apartment complexes in the Georgian city of Gori were bombed, causing civilian casualties. This city is also far from any disputed territories. Here are some photos of these attacks:

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In addition, Russia's Black Sea fleet has taken up position on the coast of Georgia, imposing a complete blockade on any sea traffic.

Meanwhile, the Russian government has stated that the current government in Georgia must go, as it is harmful to their people. ( Memories of Iraq?? )

The US Ambassador in the UN has complained that Russia appears now to be demanding regime change. See this news report:

http://www.reuters.com/article/asiaCrisis/idUSN10272978

So I guess the Russian government is indeed innocent of any wrong doing in Georgia. They are only trying to help these areas to become independent, just like Kosovo. And they are only trying to protect the people of Georgia from their own government, much like what the USA did to the Saddam regime in Iraq.

Russia has become the United States, it would thus appear. For they are now using the exact same arguments that we have in the past.

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The Government of Iran has announced that the Georgia-Russia war was actually facilitated by Israel, as part of their insidious plot to achieve world-wide domination.

Here is a news report all about this from Iran's official government controlled TV news:

http://www.presstv.ir/detail.aspx?id=66203&sectionid=351020202

From reading this Iranian report, it appears that International Zionism is seeking to gain control of the oil that currently goes through the pipelines inside Georgia.

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American captured.

Russian media has just announced that a black American was captured by the Russians during the fighting and has been taken as a POW. He is believed to be part of the NATO contingent. If this turns out to be accurate things are going to get much worse for US.

Russian news source.
http://www.izvestia.ru/news/news185341

Translation:
A group of Georgian explosives experts were captured in South Ossetia, among them is an American citizen, an African-American. This is reported by "Radio Ossetia".

The group was detained in the area around the village of Zar, which is located on the "road of life" - the Zarskaya road.

It is assumed that the American citizen is one of the NATO instructors. At the moment, he was transferred to Vladikavkaz to resolve the circumstances around his presence on the territory of the Republic of South Ossetia.

As mentioned by Rosbalt news service (http://www.rosbalt.ru/), the Plenipotentiary Representitive to the Russian Federation Dmitriy Medoyev already reported that several dark-skinned bodies were found among the corpses in Tskhinvali, having fought on the side of Georgia.
 
Russia is on it's last legs and people want a new start!

We have our own problems.

As for the Mexican Border! You have no Idea whats going on down here unless you have to live with it! We need a 20 meter Mine Field for a fence.

:cool:
 
Why Georgia Lost The War

August 10, 2008: To no one's surprise, the Russians drove back a Georgian attempt to regain control of South Ossetia. There were several hundred military and civilian casualties. The fighting apparently began when some South Ossetia militiamen fired across the border at Georgian troops. This escalated to a Georgian invasion, and a Russian reinforcement of its peacekeepers, and the expulsion of the Georgian troops. All in the space of a week. The fighting continues, with Russian warplanes bombing civilians and military targets in Georgia and moving more troops into another breakaway Georgian region, Abkhazia. Georgia has asked for a ceasefire, but the Russians have not responded.

Since the early 1990s, Russia and Georgia have argued over who should control South Ossetia, a Georgian province on the Russian border. Just to the north of South Ossetia, is the Russian territory of North Ossetia. The Soviets often split ethnic groups between two provinces (or "Autonomous Republics") to make it more difficult for the people to unite in opposition to the Soviet Union. This, among many similar measures, worked. Since the Russians moved in their peacekeepers in the early 1990s, they have issued Russian passports to the South Ossetians and, in effect, annexed the region.

The Ossertians are a different ethnic group from the ethnic Georgians, as are the Abkhazians. This sort of ethnic mélange is common throughout the Caucasus. During the last years of the Soviet Union (1989-1991), ethnic tensions increased throughout the Soviet Union, as long dormant (and suppressed by a brutal police state) aspirations stirred once more. While the Soviet politicians pulled off an astonishing feat by dissolving the empire without bloodshed (and creating fourteen new countries from portions of the empire that decided not to stay with the new Russia), there were lots of smaller groups that still had separatist grievances. Two of these groups were in Georgia, and occupied the regions of Abkhazia and South Ossetia.

The populations rebelled against the Georgian government and drove out Georgian officials, troops and ethnic Georgians. Thousands of ethnic Abkhazians and Ossetians fled to the new statelets. Since both of these areas were on the Russian border, Russia saw an opportunity to quiet things down (they did not want an ethnic based guerilla war going on along their border). So Russia offered its services as mediator and peacekeeper in the early 1990s, and peace was restored. The UN agreed all this, and a reluctant Georgia went along. But after that, the Russians refused to leave, or encourage the Abkhazians and Ossetians to work out a deal to become part of Georgia once more. Abkhazians and Ossetians wanted to be independent, and declared themselves so. No one else recognized this. In 2004, Georgia began cracking down on the smuggling and other criminal activity that was keeping the economy in South Ossetia going. This led to more and more gunfire along the border between Georgia and South Ossetia.

Two years ago, Georgia began a major expansion of its armed forces. Officially, the active forces were then about 26,000 troops, already up from about 12,000-14,000 just a couple few years before that. Unofficially, the government has raised strength to about 28,000. This was done by adding more professional troops and increasing the order-of-battle by two battalions of conscripts. The government goal is to increase the active force to about 35,000. In addition, Georgia began building a reserve force.

Until a few years ago the "reserves" constituted the entire body of conscripts discharged over the past 15 years. But this pool, of about 250,000 men, was just that, a pool. The "reservists" were not subject to periodic refresher training, and so no more than perhaps 10 percent of them could be considered useful in the event of activation. Beginning four years ago, Georgia instituted a more rigorous reserve training program. An active reserve has been created, which apparently numbers over 10,000 men, and is expected to grow to as many as 100,000 over the next few years, as conscripts (drafted at 18 to 18-24 months) leave active service, and enter 5-10 years of reserve duty.

While Georgia doesn't have the money for modern equipment (it's stuff is mostly Russian Cold War vintage), it does have enough professional soldiers from the old Red Army, and a military tradition going back centuries. Much to the discomfort of Russia, the United States has been supplying Georgia with military trainers and some equipment. Partly, this is in response to Georgian help in Iraq. Georgia first sent 800 peacekeepers to Iraq, and began increasing that force. Currently there are 2,000 Georgian troops in Iraq, where they obtain useful operational experience.

The principal reason for the military build-up is the secessionist regimes in Abkhazia and South Ossetia. The Georgians wanted the option of trying for a military solution. There are also some Russian troops, leftovers from Soviet Union era garrisons, still in the country. Georgia has been trying get all the Russian soldiers out since the Soviet Union collapsed (and Georgia became independent once more) in 1991. But the Russians have come up with a long string of excuses for delaying a final pullout. To make matters worse, several thousand of those troops are "peacekeepers" in Abkhazia and South Ossetia. To most Georgians, the Russian peacekeepers are there mainly to keep the rebel regions free of Georgian control.

It's not yet clear what the Georgian government was thinking when they allowed the border skirmishing to escalate to a military effort to restore government control over South Ossetia. It didn't work, as the Russians promptly counterattacked and drove the Georgian troops out of South Ossetia. The Georgians can try a guerilla war, and hope that their new relationship with the United States and the European Union will add some measure of protection. That's a false hope. The Russians have made it clear during the last few years that any real, or imagined, Western influence or interference in nations that border Russia (what the Russians call the "near-abroad") will be opposed with lots of noise, followed by some firepower. The recent events in Georgia are an example of that, an example the Russians hope the West takes seriously, even if the Georgians don't.

Russian politicians have been playing the nationalism card, catering to widespread feelings that the Soviet Union should be restored. Most Russians never cared for the communist dictatorship, but they did like being a superpower. The Russians also feel that those fourteen nations that split off when the Soviet Union dissolved in 1991, left Russia surrounded by a lot of unstable and vulnerable nations. This sounds paternalistic and paranoid to Westerners, but not to Russians. And the Russians are willing to use force to back up these attitudes, as the Georgians just discovered. Russia still has nukes, and some Cold War attitudes that make for a potentially very dangerous situation.

http://www.strategypage.com/qnd/russia/articles/20080810.aspx

A very good summation of the current events happening in Georgia, and it shows that it is not some B&W situation. All sides have long grievances.
 
Ok, bordering on conspiracy theory.

Georgia cannot join EU or NATO while there is still tension surrounding Abkhazia or Southern Ossetia. Nobody wants to be committed when this comes to a head.

Georgia provoke a conflict, Russia annex both areas, tell Georgia and the West to go stuff themselves.

Georgia accepts the new "realpolitik", no more tension and they can paint themselves as victims. EU membership at least, few more years when the situation has normalised, NATO membership.

It's the only scenario I can think of that answers the question "What the hell did the Georgians think they were doing taking on Russia?"

Discuss
 
As per Sky news Dick Cheney has said Russian aggression in Georgia must not go unanswered.

What the hell does that mean?
 
As per Sky news Dick Cheney has said Russian aggression in Georgia must not go unanswered.

What the hell does that mean?

Those are nearly the same same words that the first President Bush said when Iraq invaded Kuwait! Will history repeat itself?

However, the Army and Marines currently have no available troops to send to Georgia. Fighting Russia on their home ground is not at all easy. Hitler and Napoleon both found that out the hard way.

We could have our Navy sail into the Black Sea and tangle with the Russian Navy blockading Georgia, however.

This is a significant statement, as I believe that Cheney may wield the most influence inside the Bush administration.

The longer this war continues, the more likely that most folks will consider Russia to be the real agressor. Especially if they do demand regime change in Georgia, as they appear to now be requiring.

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