Put the beast to bed (.45 vs .357 .... bonus .45 vs .40)
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hardworker
New member
And the scientific method is once again ignored...
Glockstar .40
New member
thanks now i know i should make my kids door out of 1/"16 steel while i use my .45 to shoot the intruder.... dont have to worry about over penetration
Wow--these threads...
There is nothing scientific about the OP tests and even the professionally staged ballistic tests are far from empirical.
I prefer to just preface my caliber endorsement with a IMHO and that way I can be both confident in my choice while amiably disagreeing with someone else's.
These caliber threads are justifiably passionate but more often 'zealous-like' in nature as though we sound like a bunch of women gossiping in a coffee-shop. Feel free to call me out if I fall prey as well.
-Cheers
There is nothing scientific about the OP tests and even the professionally staged ballistic tests are far from empirical.I prefer to just preface my caliber endorsement with a IMHO and that way I can be both confident in my choice while amiably disagreeing with someone else's.
These caliber threads are justifiably passionate but more often 'zealous-like' in nature as though we sound like a bunch of women gossiping in a coffee-shop. Feel free to call me out if I fall prey as well.
-Cheers
Cheapshooter
New member
Overhand?
I have to agree again with Mike.
This test is only valid as far as penetrating 1/16" sheet steel. It has no relevance to the primary method of incapacitation that is caused by handgun bullets in the human body which is hemorrhaging and blood pressure loss; if no steel barrier is present.
It should be well known that bullet velocity is a major factor in penetration of steel and kevlar bullet resistant vests.
Since I carry a 10mm auto which launches a 200 grain bullet at about 1200 fps, I can penetrate that steel and a level 2-A vest too.
jimmythegeek
New member
Lt. John George reported that .45acp failed vs. Japanese body armor
The book is "Shots Fired in Anger" by Lt. Colonel John George, US Army. He didn't care for the 1911, thought the carbine made a lot more sense to issue.
OTOH, H.W. McBride, in "A Rifleman Went to War" thought a nice handy pistol with a heavy cartridge was just dandy, especially at night.
The book is "Shots Fired in Anger" by Lt. Colonel John George, US Army. He didn't care for the 1911, thought the carbine made a lot more sense to issue.
OTOH, H.W. McBride, in "A Rifleman Went to War" thought a nice handy pistol with a heavy cartridge was just dandy, especially at night.
In the 1930s there was a lot of cartridge development to improve penetration on steel car bodies over that available with standard 45 acp. This included the 38 special metal point bullet, heavy 200 grain super police loads and the 38 super automatic. Later came heavy loadings for the 38 special like 38/44 that led to the actual 357 mag. In the testing of cartridges in the early 1900s they shot at carcases and wanted energy transfer not penetration as nobody had body armor. 45 penetrates light clothing just fine and dumps energy in tissue. It is also a very good self defense caliber loaded with hollow points because of the very limited penetration. With the advent of body armor, there are newer demands for cartridge performance on the battle field. In my humble opinion, Nato should move towards adoption of the 155 grain full throttle 40 S&W load for general duty use and the 180 grain subsonic load as an alternative standard for silenced use. A 155 grain FMJ at 1200fps would add a great deal of penetrating power over any of the current 9mm or 45 ACP loadings in military use. rc
Mike Irwin
Staff
None of the handgun rounds in use during World War II, with the possible exception of the Tokarev 7.62, would have penetrated Japanese body armor. The only other one that might have had a chance would have been 9mm.
Japanese armor usage wasn't widespread, but it was occasionally encountered. The most common types were a web vest with pockets with fairly large mild steel plates about 1/8th of an inch thick.
Apparently even the carbine was hard pressed to penetrate it at much over 50 yards.
Japanese armor usage wasn't widespread, but it was occasionally encountered. The most common types were a web vest with pockets with fairly large mild steel plates about 1/8th of an inch thick.
Apparently even the carbine was hard pressed to penetrate it at much over 50 yards.
I've carried a 45 since 1970 when Uncle Sam said "Greeting and Salutations". I now carry a FNP45-Gov. It came with 5 15rd mags. and as large as it is it stills hides nicely under the right cover garmet. The reason it was designed by Mr. Brown was because the 38spl the Army was carrying wouldn't stop a 200-300lb man in the Spanish American War in the Philipines. If it is good enough for our SpecOps guys, it's good enough for me. Now having said that I also at times carry and XD40-subcompact, a Keltec P3AT, a Bersa Thunder 9mm, and a Colt or Ruger 357 revolver. They are all proven winners when it comes to self-defense. As someone wiser than me once said, "The first rule in a gun fight is HAVE a gun".
..... unless you are attacked by a man in full plate armor, then they'd be just about perfect! ..... but in that case, I'm pretty sure even my old fat self could outrun the guy! Sir Clanky isn't likely to suprise anybody, and if he does manage to sneak up on you in that get-up, you need to work on your situational awareness ........
btw, you guys should also keep in mind that I have nail guns that could blow through that plate with plenty of energy to spare.
although that nail could go through sheet steel, cinder blocks, or many other heavy materials, nothing in the world will make it a good weapon.
Search the internet and you'll find plenty of stories about people who shot themselves with nail guns; even nails in the brain have failed to incapacitate people.
Don't trust what you saw danny glover do. That was a MOVIE.
although that nail could go through sheet steel, cinder blocks, or many other heavy materials, nothing in the world will make it a good weapon.
Search the internet and you'll find plenty of stories about people who shot themselves with nail guns; even nails in the brain have failed to incapacitate people.
Don't trust what you saw danny glover do. That was a MOVIE.
Briandg I am sure I read somewhere on line that as long as you used at minimum 3.5" long, 0.130" diameter (or caliber if you will) nails fired from a quality nail gun the percentage of one shot stops is quite high (at typical distances), although there does seem to debate as to what is "best". Pneumatic guns seem to favored by the more traditional shooters, but electric gun advocates are passionate in spite of criticism from the air guys. Materials of construction seems to a the core of the issue...
) nails fired from a quality nail gun the percentage of one shot stops is quite high (at typical distances), although there does seem to debate as to what is "best". Pneumatic guns seem to favored by the more traditional shooters, but electric gun advocates are passionate in spite of criticism from the air guys. Materials of construction seems to a the core of the issue...
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Cheapshooter
New member
Makes as much sense as the OP's "Conclusive proof"!!!