In my uneducated opinion it would seem the .45 transferred more of it's energy than the .40 thus making it more effective on soft targets. In a world where only fmjs exist that is. This test just confirms what i already knew in that when robots rise up and take over I'll be glad I have my 357. Also am I the only one whod be afraid of ricochet shooting close range at plates of steel?
Put the beast to bed (.45 vs .357 .... bonus .45 vs .40)
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Mike Irwin
Staff
"I will never carry a .45 ACP again."
I think that would be valid reasoning if, and only if, your opponents are covered in 1/16th inch, "very very dense" sheet steel.
I have a funny feeling that if you hopped up the velocity on your .45 to match that of the .40 or the .357 you'd be very impressed with how well those big bullets penetrated the sheet steel.
But even then you wouldn't have any useful data on how any of those rounds would do in an armed encounter...
I think that would be valid reasoning if, and only if, your opponents are covered in 1/16th inch, "very very dense" sheet steel.
I have a funny feeling that if you hopped up the velocity on your .45 to match that of the .40 or the .357 you'd be very impressed with how well those big bullets penetrated the sheet steel.
But even then you wouldn't have any useful data on how any of those rounds would do in an armed encounter...
UtopiaTexasG19
New member
This test confirms the fact that I would not want to be the recipient of any of the rounds used! 
The only conclusion I can draw from your post is that you think the 357 and 40 loads you tested are better that the 45 load you tested because they went through the steel. Your conclusion is totally ambiguous because
1: 230 fmj is not the only load avaliable, 185gr +p would probably have went through.
2: 40fmj and 357fmj are not good SD loads
3: 9mm 124+p would probably have went through as well
This is why I love TFL ... an occasional bit of totally useless information, followed by a flood of hilarious replies ... and even some hilarious replies to information that really is useful ... I'll stick to the 1911 on my nightstand, thanks ... no sheet steel in my house that needs shooting ...
Thank goodness I never listen to those old koots and their crazy talk about "knockdown power"
I live down the road now from a scrap yard and this thread has convinced me to purchase a 357 Magnum, in case the movie "Killdozer" might possibly come true.
I also figure it's double protection in case zombies come at me carrying sheets of steel in front of them.
For burglars and regular muggers, robbers and carjackers though, I'll hang on to my nines.
I live down the road now from a scrap yard and this thread has convinced me to purchase a 357 Magnum, in case the movie "Killdozer" might possibly come true.
I also figure it's double protection in case zombies come at me carrying sheets of steel in front of them.
For burglars and regular muggers, robbers and carjackers though, I'll hang on to my nines.
Y'all are funny. Briandg I am very impressed with you're resumay.
Toppermost, truth is top men have been studying the effectiveness different calibers and ammunition for a while now. Random rounds, fired at random targets tell us nothing about the real value of those rounds for defensive purposes. Punching holes in steel is fun, and some rounds do it better than others. That is the lesson here.
Toppermost, truth is top men have been studying the effectiveness different calibers and ammunition for a while now. Random rounds, fired at random targets tell us nothing about the real value of those rounds for defensive purposes. Punching holes in steel is fun, and some rounds do it better than others. That is the lesson here.
You know it's really too bad somebody didn't figure out that the 357 is better at punching through metal back in the 30s when it was developed maybe somebody would have marketed the 357 as a good round to law enforcement and by now this would have been common knowledge. the 357 mag vs 45 acp beast would have been slain years ago.
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thunter270
New member
“Choose Wisely”
In a statistic chart I read online, the .357 mag has the most one shot kills in a conceal carry encounter and the .45 is second with this effectiveness.
Shooting a piece a steel and human flesh are two totally different things.
According to a statistic I read for my city’s law enforcement agency. “Most shots fired in a high adrenalin situation with people using a .40 caliber, miss their intended target more then any other conceal carry handgun”.
Check the recoil charts, not everyone can handle the caliber in which they shoot.
Cartridge (Wb@MV) Pistol Wt. (lbs.) Recoil E. (ft. lbs.)
9x19 (115 at 1155) 1.5 5.2
9x19 (115 at 1155) 2.0 3.8
9x19 +P (115 at 1250) 1.5 7.3
9x19 (124 at 1125) 1.5 6.0
9x19 (124 at 1157) 2.0 4.4
9x19 (147 at 1000) 2.0 4.6
.45 ACP (185 at 1047) 2.5 6.8
.45 ACP (200 at 1010) 2.5 7.6
.45 ACP (230 at 850) 2.25 7.9
.45 ACP (230 at 916) 2.5 7.5
.357 Mag. (125 at 1450) 2.75 7.2
.357 Mag. (140 at 1323) 2.75 7.9
.357 Mag. (158 at 1070) 1.75 9.4
.357 Mag. (158 at 1250) 2.75 8.7
.40 S&W (155 at 1200) 1.5 10.6
.40 S&W (165 at 1080) 1.5 9.3
.40 S&W (180 at 1027) 1.5 10.4
I love the 9mm for conceal ability, accessibility and low ammo prices. They are quite effective with proper shooting skills and shot placement.
The .45 also has an abundance of ammo at affordable prices. The .45 can conceal quite well and has more then adequate stopping power.
The .40 costs the most to shoot and has the highest recoil. Great caliber handgun. Awesome stopping power, if you can handle it, and if you can afford the extra money for the ammo.
Everyone has their own preference on what they like to shoot and carry..
Remember, if you are not accurate and consistent on hitting your target, then the handgun you are using is completely useless. “Choose Wisely”.
In a statistic chart I read online, the .357 mag has the most one shot kills in a conceal carry encounter and the .45 is second with this effectiveness.
Shooting a piece a steel and human flesh are two totally different things.
According to a statistic I read for my city’s law enforcement agency. “Most shots fired in a high adrenalin situation with people using a .40 caliber, miss their intended target more then any other conceal carry handgun”.
Check the recoil charts, not everyone can handle the caliber in which they shoot.
Cartridge (Wb@MV) Pistol Wt. (lbs.) Recoil E. (ft. lbs.)
9x19 (115 at 1155) 1.5 5.2
9x19 (115 at 1155) 2.0 3.8
9x19 +P (115 at 1250) 1.5 7.3
9x19 (124 at 1125) 1.5 6.0
9x19 (124 at 1157) 2.0 4.4
9x19 (147 at 1000) 2.0 4.6
.45 ACP (185 at 1047) 2.5 6.8
.45 ACP (200 at 1010) 2.5 7.6
.45 ACP (230 at 850) 2.25 7.9
.45 ACP (230 at 916) 2.5 7.5
.357 Mag. (125 at 1450) 2.75 7.2
.357 Mag. (140 at 1323) 2.75 7.9
.357 Mag. (158 at 1070) 1.75 9.4
.357 Mag. (158 at 1250) 2.75 8.7
.40 S&W (155 at 1200) 1.5 10.6
.40 S&W (165 at 1080) 1.5 9.3
.40 S&W (180 at 1027) 1.5 10.4
I love the 9mm for conceal ability, accessibility and low ammo prices. They are quite effective with proper shooting skills and shot placement.
The .45 also has an abundance of ammo at affordable prices. The .45 can conceal quite well and has more then adequate stopping power.
The .40 costs the most to shoot and has the highest recoil. Great caliber handgun. Awesome stopping power, if you can handle it, and if you can afford the extra money for the ammo.
Everyone has their own preference on what they like to shoot and carry..
Remember, if you are not accurate and consistent on hitting your target, then the handgun you are using is completely useless. “Choose Wisely”.
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Your stance is valid if the person attacking you is sheltering behind something similar to the steel sheet. With that being unlikely in the extreme why the negative conclusion regarding 45acp?
I carry 9 or 40 so I don't have a dog in the fight but your dissing of the 45 is counter to it's long established record of effectiveness.
I carry 9 or 40 so I don't have a dog in the fight but your dissing of the 45 is counter to it's long established record of effectiveness.
This has been one of the most amusing threads I've seen in a while. Thanks guys.
Also, how come a .40 won't penetrate a 3/8" thick sheet of lexan but a .22 sprayed with Slick50 will?
This means if my attackers are shielded by 1/16" steel- gotta use the .40
If they are shielded by the 3/8" lexan- use the .22 and carry a can of Slick50.
Boy, this SD thing is getting complicated.
Also, how come a .40 won't penetrate a 3/8" thick sheet of lexan but a .22 sprayed with Slick50 will?
This means if my attackers are shielded by 1/16" steel- gotta use the .40
If they are shielded by the 3/8" lexan- use the .22 and carry a can of Slick50.
Boy, this SD thing is getting complicated.
IMightBeWrong
New member
Human beings aren't made of solid steel. I'll take a 9mm over a .40 any day because it serves me better in a small package. That said, I concur with grabbing a .357 before a .45. If I want something with some more punch, I'll take a .357 Mag (which I need a new one of!) and also share the benefit of being able to share cleaning brushes with my nines.
Get one just to have one (that is if you're a gun-nut or collector like me). I have one of each of the aforementioned guns and while I do have a preferred caliber it doesn't result in me "not seeing the point" in having/shooting others.
Life is too short to be so serious.
Then again, with Gas prices so high I shoot my .22's now 80% of the time
so I could unload (no pun intended) some handguns instead of witnessing their turning into safe-queens.-Cheers
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That's always my comeback when people split hairs over ballistic gelatin tests: "If I'm ever attacked by a gelatinous cube, I know my GO TO load!"
As others have pointed out, the human body is not made of iron. Only about 0.008% of it is. All this test proves is that certain rounds make cleaner holes in iron than others.
Watching this one closely, as most caliber debate threads turn downright ugly by page 3.