"Primitive Weapon Rifle"

It is my understanding of the law that a breech loader used as a primitive weapon must be an antique or reproduction of a model in use before 1899. That's why so many use the Handi Rifle. Also if you hunt private lands that rule only applies to the first primitive weapon season. After Nov. 30 it's weapon of choice be it your trusty 30-30, 30-06 or even your AR with a 30 round mag
 
It is my understanding of the law that a breech loader used as a primitive weapon must be an antique or reproduction of a model in use before 1899. That's why so many use the Handi Rifle. Also if you hunt private lands that rule only applies to the first primitive weapon season. After Nov. 30 it's weapon of choice be it your trusty 30-30, 30-06 or even your AR with a 30 round mag
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The above quote is all true.
 
Hawg, your understanding is partially correct. The idea of it being a reproduction of something in use before 1899 isn't part of the current law. Current law is any single-shot, external hammer, .35 caliber and up. That is why Encores are legal.

I do recall LA having something (at one time at least) about the "reproduction" thing. Maybe that is what you are thinking of.
 
I am of the opinion that the inline BP rifles are what wrecked the tradional muzzleloader market. It made it too easy and took away the challenge and then any new BP shooters just lost interest in BP all the way around.


I believe that it was special muzzle loading only hunting seasons that wrecked the traditional muzzleloader market.
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A combination of both most likely. Had the states been more interested in actually promoting traditional ML hunting than selling more tags they would have not allowed the inlines in the first place.
 
My vote is for the .35 whelen because it's a flatter shooting cartridge than the 45-70 and .444 and can kill deer at distances of over 300 yards, it's basically a 30-06 on steroids.
 
A combination of both most likely. Had the states been more interested in actually promoting traditional ML hunting than selling more tags they would have not allowed the inlines in the first place.
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After a muzzle loading boom in the 1970's, it was inevitable that the interest in muzzle loading rifles was going to wane regardless. We don't see frontier shows on the TV anymore where the characters shot muzzle loading rifles and today's TV audience sees AR-15's and Glocks in all the cop and bad guy shows, and look what's selling today!
 
You mean you don't watch the old Daniel Boone show on ME TV? :-)
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I'm on the "wireless plan". Anything I can see for free with an antenna. You can't beat the rates but they don't have ME TV.
You don't see many toy "six shooters" in the toy department anymore either, it's all "Star Wars" stuff now.
When I was a kid, one of my first toy rifles was a toy replica of a Remington Rolling Block "Mattel Indian Scout Rifle".
The people who were exposed to American Longrifles on TV and movies are aging out and disappearing rapidly.

indian-scout-rifle-2.jpg


That toy rifle is long gone but today I own an actual Remington Rolling Block, I guess something about that toy bonded me with that rifle design.
 
The idea of it being a reproduction of something in use before 1899 isn't part of the current law. Current law is any single-shot, external hammer, .35 caliber and up. That is why Encores are legal.
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It may not be current law but it was several years ago. That's why this part is worded like it is.
replicas, reproductions, or reintroductions of those type rifles with an exposed hammer
 
My vote is for the .35 whelen because it's a flatter shooting cartridge than the 45-70 and .444 and can kill deer at distances of over 300 yards, it's basically a 30-06 on steroids.
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Too late, I already bought the .45-70.
Plus, I just wanted something kind of different. Not wayyy out there, but at least I'm using a "historic" cartridge during primitive Weapon season.
Besides, I need all the stopping power of thr 45-70 because white tail deer are extremely dangerous and aggressive;)... Plus I don't like blood tracking :cool:
 
It may not be current law but it was several years ago. That's why this part is worded like it is.
replicas, reproductions, or reintroductions of those type rifles with an exposed hammer
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The main problem with regulations worded that way is that the TC Hawken is definitely a traditional muzzle loader and totally complies with the spirit of muzzle loading, but it is not an actual replica of any historical rifle. What if the lock has coil springs instead of leaf springs?
Or should they go by SASS rules. If it looks right and functions like the original, nobody cares if it has a separate firing pin and transfer bar between the hammer and firing pin, and coil main springs.
It gets to be a game of what is and is not authentic.
 
I had that same "swell" Mattel Rolling Block. Very annoyed when the older neighbor girl borrowed it to use in a class play and it was broken during rehearsal horseplay. But now I have two real Rollers and they are the best shooting original black powder guns I own.
 
Ruger No3s are good, but really light. I would hold 405gr bullets to 1500 or less. I admit to being a whimp on recoil. Have you thought about an 1886 Winchester replica. They're fun. But you can't really go wrong with any good .45-70.
 
The question is, "what defines a single shot rifle?"

The Brits converted large numbers of SMLEs to single shot configuration (and smoothbore...) for use by native troops and police in some areas. This was normally done by blocking off the magazine and installing a wooden plug as a floor under the bolt.

When imported to the US, these were considered single shot firearms.

Also, if your rifle has a removable magazine, or you remove the follower and spring, it's now a single shot.
 
The main problem with regulations worded that way is that the TC Hawken is definitely a traditional muzzle loader and totally complies with the spirit of muzzle loading, but it is not an actual replica of any historical rifle. What if the lock has coil springs instead of leaf springs?
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Muzzle loaders weren't in question. We were discussing the law as it pertains to breech loading centerfires used during primitive weapons season. Actually the TC Hawken bears a strong resemblance to some of the Tryon trade rifles from the mid 1870's.
 
I'm neither for/nor against it....and the only reason I am getting a single shot rifle in this caliber is it gives me 3 extra weeks to hunt. Otherwise I don't really need or want a modern single shot rifle.
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I understand and am also ambivalent about the laws, I do have a little issue with the intellectual dishonesty that comes from using a modern scoped rifle and not clarifying this when you claim to have filled your BP tag. Not that the OP would. I have the same issue with someone who claims to have pistol hunted and fails to mention it was a 14" contender with a scope from a rest.
 
I'd agree. I 44 is a wonderful forest and brush caliber for any deer and I also have used it to kill antelope, elk, black bear and buffalo. The idea that you need "more" is not founded on any reality. I have never used a 44 rifles but I have killed 19 head of game with revolvers in 44 magnum. My friend Joe has killed moose with his and many of my old customers have killed African game with the bullets I used to make, up to and including elephant, hippo and Cape buffalo.

Using the LBT 187 Grain bullets I used to make, in a 357 magnum revolvers I have now killed 7 deer and antelope, and my friends Randy and Cas have used their 357 mag Marlin carbines to kill over 30 head of game. About 20 antelope and about 10 mule deer.

The 357 magnum with the 180 to 190 grain cast bullets from an 18" barrel, loaded with a top charge of WW296 shoots at about 1875 FPS. A Factory 170 30-30 Remington load advertises higher speeds, but my chronograph says they actually come from our M94 Winchester's 20" barrel at 1945 FPS.

So the 357 is 70 FPS slower, but is 17 grains heavier. So the idea that a 357 is lacking as a deer gun is also not bases on any reality. One or Randy's antelope was killed with one shot at 294 yards lasered, and another at 285 yards, also lasered.
 
Ross Seyfried wrote an article for Rifle magazine on mid bore BP cartridge rifles. He reviewed 3 different calibers and like always took one of them on an Elk hunt. He picked the middle bore rifle in .36 caliber.

This gun shot a 160gr lead bullet in 36 caliber to a speed of 1600fps. Right in the same ballpark as a factory loaded 357 round from a rifle. He shot a cow Elk at 70 yards and killed the animal with one shot. And the bullet made a complete pass through.

I think a 357 rifle even without an extra heavy powder charge or extra heavy bullet makes an excellent hunting arm. My Marlin 357 is my favorite of all the guns I own. I just wish I could find another for a reasonable price.
 
I have a CVA Hunter 44 Magnum. It's a fantastic gun for our "primitive weapons" season.
 
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I understand and am also ambivalent about the laws, I do have a little issue with the intellectual dishonesty that comes from using a modern scoped rifle and not clarifying this when you claim to have filled your BP tag. Not that the OP would. I have the same issue with someone who claims to have pistol hunted and fails to mention it was a 14" contender with a scope from a rest
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As I said several times....I am not a black powder guy. I am a lever action rifle hunter at times, I shoot F-CLASS open long and medium range, I also and have some fairly Tacticool AR's and AK's. Also a large variety of shotguns and pistols at my disposal. But black powder never interested me.

I am however an archery Hunter. I use a browning 60# recurve. No sights, no release, no assist, no let off. I suppose using some of the fancier BP rifles is akin to a guy saying he hunts archery season with a crossbow, laser range finder, and 4x scope, while I use a recurve bow and need to get within 40 yards before I consider shooting. There is an obvious difference in skill, preparation, and technique when using my bow vs a modern compound or xbow.
 
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