Peggy Noonan's got it right!!!

I asked Frum if the movement still existed. “We’ll have people formed by the conservative movement making decisions for the next thirty to forty years,” he said. “But will they belong to a self-conscious and cohesive conservative movement? I don’t think so. Because their movement did its work. The core task was to stop and reverse, to some degree, the drift of democratic countries after the Second World War toward social democracy. And that was done.”

As we started to leave, Frum smiled. “One of Buckley’s great gifts was the gift of timing,” he said. “To be twenty-five at the beginning and eighty-two at the end! But I’m forty-seven at the end.”

When I met David Brooks in Washington, he was even more scathing than Frum. Brooks had moved through every important conservative publication—National Review, the Wall Street Journal editorial page, the Washington Times, the Weekly Standard—“and now I feel estranged,” he said. “I just don’t feel it’s exciting, I don’t feel it’s true, fundamentally true.” In the eighties, when he was a young movement journalist, the attacks on regulation and the Soviet Union seemed “true.” Now most conservatives seem incapable of even acknowledging the central issues of our moment: wage stagnation, inequality, health care, global warming. They are stuck in the past, in the dogma of limited government. Perhaps for that reason, Brooks left movement journalism and, in 2003, became a moderately conservative columnist for the Times. “American conservatives had one defeat, in 2006, but it wasn’t a big one,” he said. “The big defeat is probably coming, and then the thinking will happen. I have not yet seen the major think tanks reorient themselves, and I don’t know if they can.” He added, “You go to Capitol Hill—Republican senators know they’re ****ed. They have that sense. But they don’t know what to do. There’s a hunger for new policy ideas.”

The Heritage Foundation Web site currently links to video presentations by Sean Hannity and Laura Ingraham, “challenging Americans to consider, What Would Reagan Do?” Brooks called the conservative think tanks “sclerotic,” but much conservative journalism has become just as calcified and ingrown. Last year, writing in The New Republic, Sam Tanenhaus revealed a 1997 memo in which Buckley—who had originally hired Brooks at National Review on the strength of a brilliant undergraduate parody that he had written of Buckley—refused to anoint him as his heir because Brooks, a Jew, is not a “believing Christian.” At Commentary, the neoconservative counterpart to National Review, the editorship was bequeathed by Norman Podhoretz, its longtime editor, to his son John, whose crude op-eds for the New York Post didn’t measure up to Commentary’s intellectual past. A conservative journalist familiar with both publications said that what mattered most at the Christian National Review was doctrinal purity, whereas at the Jewish Commentary it was blood relations: “It’s a question of who can you trust, and it comes down to religious fundamentals.”

The orthodoxy that accompanies this kind of insularity has had serious consequences: for years, neither National Review nor Commentary was able to admit that the Iraq war was being lost. Lowry, who received the editorship from Buckley before he turned thirty, told me that he particularly regretted a 2005 cover story he’d written with the headline “WE’RE WINNING.” He said, “Most of the right was in lockstep with Donald Rumsfeld. We didn’t want to admit we were losing and said anyone who said otherwise was a defeatist. One thing I’ve loved about conservatism is its keen sense of reality, and that was totally lost in 2006.” Last year, National Review ran a cover article on global warming, which Lowry, like Brooks, Frum, and other conservatives, listed among the major issues of our time, along with wage stagnation and the breakdown of the family. Although the article, by Jim Manzi, proposed market solutions, the response among some readers, Lowry said, was “ ‘How dare you?’ A bunch of people out there don’t want to hear it—they believe it’s a hoax. That’s the head-in-the-sand response.”

A similar battle looms between traditional supply-side tax cutters and younger writers like National Review’s Ramesh Ponnuru, who has proposed greatly expanding the child tax credit—using tax policy not to reduce the tax burden across the board, in accord with conservative orthodoxy, but to help families. These challenges to dogma, however tentative, are being led by Republican constituencies that have begun to embrace formerly “Democratic issues.” Evangelical churches are concerned about the environment; businesses worry about health care; white working-class voters are angry about income inequality. But nothing focusses the mind like the prospect of electoral disaster: last November, Lowry and Ponnuru co-wrote a cover story with the headline “THE COMING CATACLYSM.”

It’s probably not an accident that the most compelling account of the crisis was written by two conservatives who are still in their twenties and have made their careers outside movement institutions. Ross Douthat and Reihan Salam, editors at the Atlantic Monthly, are eager to cut loose the dead weight of the Gingrich and Bush years. In their forthcoming book, “Grand New Party: How Republicans Can Win the Working Class and Save the American Dream” (Doubleday), Douthat and Salam are writing about, if not for, what they call “Sam’s Club Republicans”—members of the white working class, who are the descendants of Nixon’s “northern ethnics and southern Protestants” and the Reagan Democrats of the eighties. In their analysis, America is divided between the working class (defined as those without a college education) and a “mass upper class” of the college educated, who are culturally liberal and increasingly Democratic. The New Deal, the authors acknowledge, provided a sense of security to working-class families; the upheavals of the sixties and afterward broke it down. Their emphasis is on the disintegration of working-class cohesion, which they blame on “crime, contraception, and growing economic inequality.” Douthat and Salam are cultural conservatives—Douthat became a Pentecostal and then a Catholic in his teens—but they readily acknowledge the economic forces that contribute to the breakdown of families lacking the “social capital” of a college degree. Their policy proposals are an unorthodox mixture of government interventions (wage subsidies for lower-income workers) and tax reforms (Ponnuru’s increased child-credit idea, along with a revision of the tax code in favor of lower-income families). Their ultimate purpose is political: to turn as much of the working class into Sam’s Club Republicans as possible. They don’t acknowledge the corporate interests that are at least as Republican as Sam’s Club shoppers, and that will put up a fight on many counts, potentially tearing the Party apart. Nor are they prepared to accept as large a role for government as required by the deep structural problems they identify. Douthat and Salam are as personally remote from working-class America as any élite liberal; Douthat described their work to me as “a data-driven attempt at political imagination.” Still, any Republican politician worried about his party’s eroding base and grim prospects should make a careful study of this book.

Frum’s call for national-unity conservatism and Douthat and Salam’s program for “Sam’s Club Republicans” are efforts to shorten the lean years for conservatives, but political ideas don’t materialize on command to solve the electoral problems of one party or another. They are generated over time by huge social transformations, on the scale of what took place in the sixties and seventies. “They’re not real, they’re ideological constructs,” Buchanan said, “and you can write columns and things like that, but they don’t engage the heart. The heart was engaged by law and order. You reached into people—there was feeling.”

Sam Tanenhaus summed up the 2008 race with a simple formula: Goldwater was to Reagan as McGovern is to Obama. From the ruins of Goldwater’s landslide defeat in 1964, conservatives began the march that brought them fully to power sixteen years later. If Obama wins in November, it will have taken liberals thirty-six years. Tanenhaus pointed out how much of Obama’s rhetoric about a “new politics” is reminiscent of McGovern’s campaign, which was also directed against a bloated, corrupt establishment. In “The Making of the President 1972,” Theodore White quotes McGovern saying, “I can present liberal values in a conservative, restrained way. . . . I see myself as a politician of reconciliation.” That was in 1970, before McGovern was defined as the candidate of “amnesty, abortion, and acid,” and he defined himself as a rigid moralist more interested in hectoring middle Americans than in inspiring them.

Obama, of course, is an entirely different personality in a different time, but the interminable primary campaign has shown his coalition to look very much like McGovern’s: educated, upper-income liberal voters; blacks; and the young. Nixon beat McGovern among the latter even after the Twenty-sixth Amendment lowered the voting age to eighteen; but times have changed so drastically that, according to Pew Research Center surveys, almost sixty per cent of voters under thirty now identify more strongly with the Democrats, doubling the Party’s advantage among the young over Republicans since 2004. And the demographic work of John Judis and Ruy Teixeira in their 2002 book, “The Emerging Democratic Majority,” showed that the McGovern share of the electorate—minorities and educated professionals working in post-industrial jobs—is expanding far faster than the white working class. This was the original vision of a McGovern adviser named Fred Dutton, whose 1971 book, “Changing Sources of Power: American Politics in the 1970s,” cited by Perlstein, foresaw a rising “coalition of conscience and decency” among baby boomers. The new politics was an electoral disaster in 1972, but it may finally triumph in 2008.

If not, it will be because Democrats still can’t win the Presidency without the working-class Americans who remain the swing vote and, this year, are up for grabs more than ever. Hillary Clinton has denied Obama a lock on the nomination by securing large majorities of swing voters, beginning in New Hampshire and culminating last week in West Virginia. It took the Obama campaign months to realize that a 2008 version of the McGovern coalition will barely be sufficient to win the nomination, let alone the general election. The question is how Obama can do better with the crucial slice of the electorate that he hasn’t been able to capture. Recently, he has gone from bowling in Pennsylvania and drinking Bud in Indiana to talking about his single mother, his wife’s working-class roots, and his ardent patriotism on the night of his victory in North Carolina. But the problem can’t be solved by symbols or rhetoric: for a forty-six-year-old black man in an expensive suit, with a Harvard law degree and a strange name, to walk into V.F.W. halls and retirement homes and say, “I’m one of you,” seems both improbable and disingenuous.

The other extreme—to muse aloud among wealthy contributors, like a political anthropologist, about the values and behavior of the economically squeezed small-town voter—is even more self-defeating. Perhaps Obama’s best hope is to play to his strength, which is a cool and eloquent candor, and address the question of liberal élitism as frontally as he spoke about race in Philadelphia two months ago. He would need to say, in effect, “I know I’m not exactly one of you,” and then explain why this shouldn’t matter—why he would be just as effective a leader for the working and middle class as his predecessors Presidents Roosevelt and Kennedy, who were élites of a different kind. Above all, Obama should absorb what the most thoughtful conservatives already know: that these voters see the economic condition of the country as inextricable from its moral condition.
Last month, I saw John McCain speak in a tiny town, nestled among the Appalachian coal hills of eastern Kentucky, called Inez. He was in the middle of his Time for Action Tour of America’s “forgotten places” (including Selma, Alabama; Youngstown, Ohio; and the Lower Ninth Ward of New Orleans). It was a transparent effort to stay in the media eye and also to say, as his speechwriter Mark Salter later told me, “I’m not going to run an election like the last couple have been run, trying to grind out a narrow win by increasing the turnout of the base. I don’t want to run a campaign like that because I don’t want to be a President like that. I want to be your President even if you don’t vote for me.” As every new conservative book points out, the Bush-Rove realignment strategy would fail miserably this year, anyway.

Inez is the place where Lyndon Johnson came to declare war on poverty, in 1964. He sat on the porch of a ramshackle, tin-roof house, which still stands (just barely) on a hillside above Route 3, looking a little like a museum of rural poverty in a county that has recently prospered because of coal. McCain was to appear in the county courthouse, on the short main street of Inez, and the middle-aged men I sat with in the second-floor courtroom all remembered Johnson’s visit and had nothing but good things to say about his anti-poverty programs. Kennis Maynard, the county prosecutor, a cheerful, thickset man in a blue suit, had saved enough money for law school from a job in the mines that he got with the help of a federal work program. His family was so poor that they were happy to accept government handouts of pork, canned beans, and cheese. The courthouse in which we were sitting was a New Deal project, circa 1938. Maynard, like the other men, like most of nearly all-white Martin County, is Republican—mainly, he said, because of cultural issues like abortion. But Maynard and the others said that McCain had better talk about jobs and gas prices if he wanted to keep his audience.
 
All of those long winded excuses for neo-conservatism aside... it still comes down to what I posted recently.

The onus will be on John McCain to deliver the conservative vote. If he can do that, he has a chance of winning. If he does not do that, he will lose. It is ironic that the liberal John McCain's fortunes depend on the segment of the voting populace that he most despises.

If McCain wins, then, yes, the republican party continues to move left and the conservative movement is left in the wilderness.

If McCain fails, then possibly, the GOP will reevaluate it's liberal positions and will move back to the right where it's roots lie.

Don't hold your breath, though. Neo-Conservatism (Liberalism) in the GOP is strong and stubborn. They don't intend to go quietly.

But "go" they must.
 
I don't know... I believe there is a dispute about that. John McCain is eyed with suspicion by conservatives.
In the eyes of traditional Republican voters, Hillary (wife of the Great Satan Bill) Clinton and Barack (most liberal man in the whole Senate) Obama are unbelievably toxic. Many Republicans are single-issue voters (many of us are them) such as pro-lifers and 2nd-amendment supporters. I predict that the presence of either one of these two extreme-radical-left candidates on the ballot will motivate large numbers of Republican voters to get to the polls and vote red far more than anything McCain will do or say. Snuffy Smith would get their vote vs. Clinton/Obama.

I'm not sure if you are aware of the depth of the hatred within the Democratic civil war. I sometimes provide opposing opinions (start up trouble) on Slate, a mostly liberal site (they call their forum "The Fray"). If you would like to see the hostilities firsthand check out the hundreds of furious Democrat-hating-Democrat threads in The Hillary Deathwatch Forum.

It is telling that this unabashedly liberal site has a running article titled "The Hillary Deathwatch." This is typical of the treatment that Hillary has received. Hillary's supporters feel very strongly about her, are strongly committed, and are seriously bitter and hostile about her treatment in the media and at the hands of Obama supporters. These people are not going to vote for Obama when he gets the nomination. 51% of the Democratic party will not beat 100% of the Republican party.

Neither the far left or the far right have ALL the answers.
Agreed. I carry no cards, I vote the person not the party.
 
John Preston, who is the county’s circuit-court judge and also its amateur historian, Harvard-educated, with a flag pin on his lapel, said, “Obama is considered an élitist.” He added, “There’s a racial component, obviously, to it. Thousands of people won’t publicly say it, but they won’t vote for a black man—on both sides, Democrat and Republican. It won’t show up in the polls, because they won’t admit it. The elephant’s in the room, but nobody will say it. Sad to say it, but it’s true.” Later, I spoke with half a dozen men eating lunch at the Pigeon Roost Dairy Bar outside town, and none of them had any trouble saying it. They announced their refusal to vote for a black man, without hesitation or apology. “He’s a Muslim, isn’t he?” an aging mine electrician asked. “I won’t vote for a colored man. He’ll put too many coloreds in jobs. Colored are O.K.—they’ve done well, good for them, look where they came from. But radical coloreds, no—like that Farrakhan, or that senator from New York, Rangel. There’d be riots in the streets, like the sixties.” No speech, on race or élitism or anything else, would move them. Here was one part of the white working class—maybe not representative, but at least significant—and in an Obama-McCain race they would never be the swing vote. It is a brutal fact, and Obama probably shouldn’t even mention it.

McCain appeared to a warm reception. I had seen him in New Hampshire, where he gave off-the-cuff remarks with vigor; when he is stuck with a script, however, he is a terrible campaigner. Looking pallid, he sounded flat, and stumbled over his lines—and yet they were effective lines, ones that Obama would do well to study. “I can’t claim we come from the same background,” McCain began. “I’m not the son of a coal miner. I wasn’t raised by a family that made its living from the land or toiled in a mill or worked in the local schools or health clinic. I was raised in the United States Navy, and, after my own naval career, I became a politician. My work isn’t as hard as yours—it isn’t nearly as hard as yours. I had an easier start.” He paused and went on, “But you are my compatriots, my fellow-Americans, and that kinship means more to me than almost any other association.”

McCain mentioned Johnson’s visit and the war on poverty, expressing admiration for its good intentions but rebuking its reliance on government to create jobs—rebuking it gently, without the contempt that Reagan would have used. He called for job-training partnerships between business and community colleges, tax deductions for companies bringing telecommunications to rural areas. It was a moderate, reform-minded Republicanism. He didn’t use any of the red-meat language that made two generations of white voters switch parties.

“McCain is not a theme guy,” David Brooks said. “He reacts—he has moral instinct, which I think is quite a good one.” Other conservatives complained to me that he has no ideology at all. “Let’s face it,” Brooks said. “What McCain’s going to do is say, ‘I’m not George Bush. I’m not like the Republican Party you knew.’ ” Most Presidential candidates move to the center once they’ve locked up the nomination; McCain, however, still has to try to win over the suspicious Republican right, and he recently vowed to appoint only judges who “strictly interpret” the Constitution to the bench. But pledges of fealty to his party’s ideological interest groups diminish what’s appealing about McCain. “Feeling fraudulent is very debilitating to him,” Mark Salter said.

When McCain opened the floor for questions, a woman asked about border security. He replied, to general laughter, “This meeting is adjourned.” Another woman asked him to discuss his religious faith, and McCain told a story from his imprisonment, about a generous gesture by a North Vietnamese guard one Christmas Day. I’d heard him tell the same story in New Hampshire; it seemed to be his stock answer, and he hurried through it. Other questions came, about gas prices and jobs going overseas and foreclosures and education costs, and McCain’s answers—a summer federal-gas-tax holiday, a cut in the capital-gains tax, charter schools, federal home loans, job-training programs—didn’t seem to move either him or his audience very much.

Members of the audience began to appeal to McCain with the old polarizing language, but he refused to take the bait. A state senator asked what he thought about Obama’s recent comments on rural voters, religion, and guns. McCain turned the question around. “Let me ask you: Do you think those remarks reflect the views of constituents?”

“I think they reflect the views of someone who doesn’t understand this neck of the woods,” the state senator replied, to the biggest ovation of the day.

“Yes, those were élitist remarks, to say the least,” McCain said quickly, walking away.

Judge Preston had a question. McCain had mentioned Clinton’s vote for a million-dollar earmark for a museum in Woodstock, New York. Had he attended the concert? It was an obvious setup for a standard McCain joke, and he seemed positively embarrassed by it. “I’ll give my not-so-respectful answer,” he said. “I was tied up at the time.”

It was a remarkably subdued performance. McCain doesn’t try to stir a crowd’s darker passions or its higher aspirations. He doesn’t present himself as a conservative leader; he is simply a leader. His favorite book, according to Salter, is “For Whom the Bell Tolls,” because it’s the story of a man who struggles nobly even though he knows the effort is doomed. McCain says to audiences, Here I am, a man in full, take me or leave me. This might be the only kind of Republican who could win in 2008.


WildwheeeeeeeewAlaska ™

Reiterate: I dont agree with all of this, but it sure is something to chew on.
 
In the eyes of traditional Republican voters, Hillary (wife of the Great Satan Bill) Clinton and Barack (most liberal man in the whole Senate) Obama are unbelievably toxic. Many Republicans are single-issue voters (many of us are them) such as pro-lifers and 2nd-amendment supporters. I predict that the presence of either one of these two extreme-radical-left candidates on the ballot will motivate large numbers of Republican voters to get to the polls and vote red far more than anything McCain will do or say. Snuffy Smith would get their vote vs. Clinton/Obama.

Don't be so sure. If the republican candidate were a traditional republican candidate who realized the value in the conservative voter, then, yes, undoubtedly your belief would be accurate. However, McCain is different than republican candidates of the past. For one, he is actively courting liberals with positions such as taxation of corporations in the name of global warming. His 2nd amendment credentials are suspect and he is unapologetic about it. In short, McCain is throwing his liberal ideas in the face of the conservative voters.

McCain has clearly made a gamble that he can win without the votes of the conservative base. Ultimately, that will be where his grand scheme fails, IMO.
 
We all would love a way to punish McCain for his misdeeds, but we lack a way to do so that wouldn't hurt us more. Anyone got an idea that would actually work?
 
Yellowfin, doesn't voting for a liberal Republican punish us enough? What do you think will happen if McCain wins as a liberal republican? Conservative ideas will get less and less attention by the republican party in the future. You will then have 2 liberal parties, not one.

It is not an easy decision for many republicans, but I have made up my mind that I cannot support a liberal of either party for the sake of party loyalty. I am loyal to conservatism first and foremost. It is conservatism which has been the backbone of the Republican party for generations. To see the grand ideas of liberty, small government and the right to bare arms get thrown under the bus by this party is almost more than I can bare.

So one candidate is more liberal than the other? So what... they are both liberal. I cannot vote for John McCain and still look at myself in a mirror the day after.
 
I was a party loyalist for years. I pulled the lever for Bush 41, Bush 43 twice and many a Republican congressman and senator. But no more. Not after John McCain. Not after they have sold out their own base.

Maybe some understand how I feel... maybe some don't. But I promise you... there are millions more who feel the way I do. Don't blame us. Blame the GOP.

It is error to position the GOP as a dissociated third party. The coalition that nominated Reagan is precisely who is to blame in nominating McCain; those are the people who make up the party.

McCain wasn't my pick, he was the pick of other people who worked in and voted in the primaries. It isn't as if people who agree with me were somehow tricked into allowing a McCain nomination. He has it because we let him have it. We are the party. Look in the mirror when assigning blame.

It is not an easy decision for many republicans, but I have made up my mind that I cannot support a liberal of either party for the sake of party loyalty. I am loyal to conservatism first and foremost. It is conservatism which has been the backbone of the Republican party for generations.

Some historical context is in order.

Nixon was a liberal anti-communist and held the only postwar electoral landslide for repubs. Prior to him was Eisenhower -- hardly a powerful advocate for lower marginal tax rates and enhanced federaslism.

The republican party is not historically especially conservative until Reagan. It did have an edge in anti-communism, but that is hardly the same as conservatism.

A person who is loyal to conservatism would ordinarily assess his options as to how odious each is, not merely condemn them all as equally objectionable because they weren't his personal pick. I read many repubs chatting about sitting out an election because they can't tolerate McCain's liberalism; this will ensure a far more rigourous leftism of BHO or a woman with stalinesque personal ambition and ethical vacuity.

To pout at not having gotten the nominee of our preference is not loyalty to conservatism, but to a brittle and useless conceit.
 
Zukiphile, you brought up Ronald Reagan. He used to be a democrat and he switched to the Republican party in 1962 or 1963... anyway, in an interview sometime after he switched, Ronald Reagan was asked "Why did you leave the democrat party?".

Ronald Reagan's response... "I didn't leave the democrat party. The party left me.".

That is how many conservatives feel now. Their party has left them. Regardless of how the republican party came to nominate a liberal... the fact is.... they have.

And conservatives are bolting in record numbers.

I read many repubs chatting about sitting out an election because they can't tolerate McCain's liberalism

They don't need to sit out this election. A conservative has entered the race to challenge the two liberals on the ballot. His name is Bob Barr.
 
Zukiphile, you brought up Ronald Reagan. He used to be a democrat and he switched to the Republican party in 1962 or 1963... anyway, in an interview sometime after he switched, Ronald Reagan was asked "Why did you leave the democrat party?".

Ronald Reagan's response... "I didn't leave the democrat party. The party left me.".

That is how many conservatives feel now.

We should get over it. Focusing on your own feelings is not a plan.

RR left the dem party for a number of reasons not covered in his quip. One of the reasons is that there existed a viable alternative to the party he left.

They don't need to sit out this election. A conservative has entered the race to challenge the two liberals on the ballot. His name is Bob Barr.

I personally like Barr very much. However voting for him in the general will have precisely the same effect as not voting at all. People who vote for Barr will effectively vote for BHO/Hillary in the same way that people who voted for Perot effectively voted for WJC.

The libertarian party is not viable, and in any case is not conservative.
 
^ If so, then what? What do we do? Doing nothing is taking McCain OR the alternatives. There has to be something to do that is more than nothing.
 
Peggy is yet another delusional "journalist" living in Obama fantasyland. This article is just pro-Obama propaganda. I can't believe that it's getting so much support in this forum.
Pro-Obama propaganda from Peggy Noonan? :confused:
Here I thought I was supposed to be the tin-foil guy.
 
zukiphile
We should get over it. Focusing on your own feelings is not a plan.

Liberals and democrats generally let their emotions dictate their beliefs. If a candidate is flawed, they will still vote for him because the candidate "has good intentions". I don't think like that at all. Possibly you mistake my resolve to never vote for a liberal as something completely different. I simply am done with voting for the lesser of evils as long as I have a choice. In this election, it looks like Bob Barr will be the closest to my conservative views. It is unfortunate that the republican party has allowed this to happen. They should respect their conservative base more. We are not democrats. We will not vote for someone simply for the sake of party loyalty. Conservative voters want conservative candidates.

I personally like Barr very much. However voting for him in the general will have precisely the same effect as not voting at all.

If you like him, if he seems to support your views more than the other candidates, then you should vote for him. Voting for a candidate you agree with less because you don't think your favorite candidate can win only rewards the mediocre candidate. I just don't think that is logical. We wouldn't choose "second best" in hardly any other aspect of our own lives, yet some of us are willing to nominate the "2nd best" candidate to the most powerful office of the world. That just doesn't make sense to me.
 
We will not vote for someone simply for the sake of party loyalty. Conservative voters want conservative candidates.

Cool. Start your own little party, like the Socialists or the Greens or the whatevers.

Stop trying to hijack our party. The decent, progressive party of Lincoln, Eisenhower and Reagan, not David Duke and Ron Paul.


WildthenewagedawnsAlaska TM
 
WildAlaska
Cool. Start your own little party, like the Socialists or the Greens or the whatevers.

You support a liberal who believes in global warming (McCain) while you start threads about the fraud behind the global warming movement. Confused... are you?

WA, between you and I, you are clearly more inclined toward Socialism than I will ever be.

Stop trying to hijack our party. The decent, progressive party of Lincoln, Eisenhower and Reagan, not David Duke and Ron Paul.

The republican party does not belong to you or to me. You have no power to tell another person what to do in regard to their support of the GOP or lack thereof. Maybe in your world you are making a difference by telling others to accept liberalism from the GOP, but you are truly not impressing any conservative who maintains an ability to think for themself.

And, I reiterate my contention that it is easy to spot a bigot... he/she is usually the one crying "racism" the loudest. The reason this is true is that a racist commonly sees in others qualities which he himself possesses.
 
You support a liberal who believes in global warming (McCain) while you start threads about the fraud behind the global warming movement. Confused... are you?

All about practical priorities my friend, one cannot have everything.

And, I reiterate my contention that it is easy to spot a bigot... he/she is usually the one crying "racism" the loudest. The reason this is true is that a racist commonly sees in others qualities which he himself possesses.

Methinks thou dost protest too much, LOL

WildimusthavehitanerveAlaska TM

PS

Maybe in your world you are making a difference by telling others to accept liberalism from the GOP, but you are truly not impressing any conservative who maintains an ability to think for themself.

Based on the pap I have been reading this election season the word "thinking" and conservative are mutually exclusuive.

Time to recapture the party with a McCain victory this year......

PPS...

WA, between you and I, you are clearly more inclined toward Socialism than I will ever be.

Just like one of my heroes, Tom Paine
 
Time to recapture the party with a McCain victory this year.

So sayeth our resident self-described "socialist". :rolleyes:

I agree with ya, WA. If you believe that the Republican party isn't socialist enough, you should vote for McCain.
 
It will take a Democrat in the White house for the Republican Party to wake up. They are so dug in that they are in a sleeping stupor. Corporate gluttony, financial pirating, the loss of dollar value, and this is the Republican delusion: that they are not responsible in any way. Still singing the mantra, we are not in a recession, we are not in a recession...

Amen.
 
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